Revised Plot and Planning Thread

[Daniel Krispin]

Sounds good.

By the way, TF is making a little more sense to me now. I'm having to backward engineer existing scenes to get an idea of how things are done. Whatever I do, though, is bound to be rather inefficient and clumsy, but as an idea for things it might work. I'm trying to get the 'Furies' scene put together... when I've done so I'll send you the example, just for fun. Like I said, though, make sure to make the dialogue party leader specific, rather than just 'in party' specific.

[Vehek]

One possible problem with putting the plot on a wiki page: Recent Changes.

[Daniel Krispin]

Hey, um, guys, there's no possible way for you to borrow the coding I've done for that scene, is there? I mean, could you just shift things over to put it onto the map you want? I suppose it would require editing some coordinates (unless you've not used the 'Ozzie's Last Stand' room), but meh. It seems to work pretty darn well.

[ZeaLitY]

Yep. The Export option will let us import that event packet.

[Daniel Krispin]

Yep. The Export option will let us import that event packet.

Oooh, nice! Because I think it actually worked out not too badly. It can use some tweaks, of course (by people that actually know how to use the program), but it's more or less alright. I am able to have the characters move and have little animations and all that. Actually, the only thing that's eluded me is making the necessity of having Janus in the party. I'm not sure how to do that, and looking at the other events provided no insight. Hmph. Well, others can take care of that. When I'm done I'll export it and you guys can take a look at it.

Actually, see how this work in progress is. It belongs with the 'Ozzies Last Stand' map.

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[ZeaLitY]

Congratulations. The use of sound effects and animations was fresh. I had Frog in the party, and it was good seeing him defend Magus. The writing was good.

But I can't imagine what it would be like if it actually took place in the Darkness Beyond Time, with whatever tileset we choose, and with an atmosphere in the player's mind already cultivated. The atmosphere I speak of is what I felt when the battle begun and I heard none other than the ruined future theme. Man, that was bleak and threatening; the effect could be enhanced by having something other than "Black Dream" play before the encounter. But of course, I know it's just a work in progress, and that such presentation decisions haven't been made yet. And adding foreshadowing to that...the fates would be terrifying. But as it stands, you are now more capable of Chrono Trigger modding than the vast body of fans, even with such an easy gesture. I guess that speaks negatively of the fanbase...

[Daniel Krispin]

Congratulations. The use of sound effects and animations was fresh. I had Frog in the party, and it was good seeing him defend Magus. The writing was good.

But I can't imagine what it would be like if it actually took place in the Darkness Beyond Time, with whatever tileset we choose, and with an atmosphere in the player's mind already cultivated. The atmosphere I speak of is what I felt when the battle begun and I heard none other than the ruined future theme. Man, that was bleak and threatening; the effect could be enhanced by having something other than "Black Dream" play before the encounter. But of course, I know it's just a work in progress, and that such presentation decisions haven't been made yet. And adding foreshadowing to that...the fates would be terrifying. But as it stands, you are now more capable of Chrono Trigger modding than the vast body of fans, even with such an easy gesture. I guess that speaks negatively of the fanbase...

Heh, thanks. I thought the defence of Janus is what's most important. That he sees how they are fighting his battles, when classically he's wanted to fight them alone. That's why I saw it as not working in a dream sequence... that would just be him winning on his own again. That's nice, but it would be good to develop his character to show some regard to his allies, which I think this does. Nonetheless, if it can be woven into the area of the Darkness, I suppose that would be neat. Regarding the sound and the music, I actually did that all just very last minute without much thought. I knew I wanted something softer for that battle, but that's it. As you said, such decisions really haven't been made yet.

Heh, well, to be honest, this is a really tough system to work with. Because it's constraining itself to the Trigger rules, there isn't much you can do in some ways, and you don't have much room for all too much creativity. Really, I have a far better time with RPG maker. Now and again I use that program, and the stuff I do with that is way better than anything I could do with TF. The RPGmaker graphics aren't that great, but it's so flixible. Not Trigger stuff... actually, off on and for like six years now I've worked on a Tolkien Silmarillion based RPG. ... (continued in a PM, ZeaLitY)

[Chrono'99]

I've watched the scene. It could perhaps be a bit longer, but it's definitely a good scene (curiously, we often have to shorten scenes when they're too text-heavy, but here it's the opposite). In any case, it'll be awesome once the whole game is coded and we begin the graphic hacking phase. We could perhaps add small wings to these Furies or something...

[Daniel Krispin]

I've watched the scene. It could perhaps be a bit longer, but it's definitely a good scene (curiously, we often have to shorten scenes when they're too text-heavy, but here it's the opposite). In any case, it'll be awesome once the whole game is coded and we begin the graphic hacking phase. We could perhaps add small wings to these Furies or something...

Odd, yeah, because I in especial tend towards the long-winded. Guess I was trying for something more fitting, there. To be honest I was really proud of it on those grounds alone. I could easily add more dialogue, of course, but I figured that at least at first brevity would be better, and let actions speak louder than words.

Oh, yeah, wings on furies. Sweet!

[Chrono'99]

About the Dragon Tooth:

Looking back, there are still some issues with the plot point I proposed (here).

Firstly, it doesn't explain how Chronopolis is re-powered: the party is supposed to go to Prehistory to find a power source, but the Dragon Tooth doesn't fit this role in the end. Secondly, I'm currently coding/recoding the scene before the Reptite timeline (the Atash Kedah), and it's very complicated due to all the characters present on screen: 6 PCs, Ayla, Zeal, Flame, Dragon Tooth, male Reptite. It's definitely not impossible to code, but it's awkward with all the separate-but-still-related things that happen and that are learned. The appearance of a male Reptite in the scene also turns out a bit random.

Perhaps the Dragon Tooth should remain an artifact. For the record, the whole point of its presence in the plot is to give a reason for the party to go to Prehistory, but its origin is a bit underdeveloped.

So perhaps we can have this: the Dragon Tooth is an artifact created by the Reptites after Lavos' arrival to remember all their fallen comrades. It's a ceremonial totem partly made of Reptite bones and it is used to communicate with the dead. It's not particularly useful as such, but the reason it can power Chronopolis efficiently is because it "smells" like the Black Wind (Black Energy in Japanese), and Belthasar could modify it to channel energy directly from the "void".

So, the party goes to Prehistory and retrieves this Dragon Tooth, and when they encounter King Zeal in the crater, it falls into a Gate leading to 3 million B.C., where the Frozen Flame recreates a bunch of Reptites from the bones that compose the Tooth. These Reptites then go to war with humans and the timeline eventually become the "Reptite timeline" as seen by the party in 1 A.D., 2302 A.D. and 1002 A.D.

This creation of soldiers is obviously inspired by the Greek myth of the Dragon's teeth. Here however, the Reptites soldiers appear in 3 million B.C. and only because of King Zeal, so this puts the Greek influence more on that later era than on 64,999,998 B.C., and I guess it's okay (64,999,998 B.C. shouldn't be Hellenized, it needs to be universal).

~

And another thing... It's slightly unrelated, but I should post it before I forget.

What is the Temporal Catch:

It's an unnoticeable but huge energy field set up by Belthasar around Chronopolis and which pulls temporal strain on it, basically turning it into the "the space-time coordinates of least resistance". With it, Chronopolis effectively replaces the End of Time (except it's not in a Pocket Dimension), and thus all the Gates that should lead to the End of Time lead to Chronopolis instead.

This explains why the party always arrive in the time fortress when they use a Gate or break a Time Egg, and why they sometime do it with more than 3 peoples. When King Zeal rampages Chronopolis near the end of the game, the Temporal Catch is broken and this is why the party can go to rescue Gaspar. It's then repaired when the 3 Gurus return.

This thing indirectly foreshadow something huge about Chrono Cross. This doesn't really affect the plot, but this should be kept in mind when writing dialogues: by the end of the game, Belthasar indeed possesses:

- the Temporal Catch (a system that seriously weakens the fabric of time on Chronopolis' coordinates),
- the Dragon Tooth (a direct connection with the energy of the void),
- the Frozen Flame (a direct connection with Lavos).

Combine all these stuff and you get... yes, the Time Crash! The Temporal Catch diminished the "resistance" of Chronopolis' coordinates so much that it resulted in a permanent "hole"...

~

So, any thought on these two points?

[ZeaLitY]

I've been trying to think of a way to easily track progress. In the past, we've had elaborate threads with uneven posts, or the CE wiki (I have the backup of that still).

I think a columnar format maybe with colors could work, but I'm not sure how we'd set it up on the internet. It'd easily work with an Excel spreadsheet, but then only one person would be able to keep track of it. I guess that's not so bad unless that person disappears.

But more discussion is needed. Here's my example:

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[Vehek]

I guess the second point solves that problem. Might have to revise the Toma part of the Porre Lab quest if he's still in, as it says "they would end up in the End of Time if they'd use the Epoch". -Edit: That mention of the Epoch was out already.
How do they get the Dragon Tooth to use? Do they find it after it's been around for all those years or they somehow retrieve it from 3 million B.C?

[Chrono'99]

I guess they retrieve it in some cave in Chapter 12 when they get the Epoch, before the Cakulha stuff. Sorin could have given them a clue as to where he'd be and the party would have to search for it in 1002 A.D... or 602 A.D.

[Chrono'99]

- added a few lines foreshadowing the big relation between Lavos and humanity: the party thinks King Zeal is possessed by Lavos, but King Zeal claims it's the opposite, that the Flame is his hostage

I'm quoting myself from another topic, but this just gave me an idea... Currently, the final battle is supposed to be fought against King Zeal in the DBT before his merging with the Time Devourer; the latter is discussed and probably seen, but he isn't fought, and the merging is prevented by King Zeal's defeat.

However, to bring a final twist to the adventure, how about this plot point: King Zeal is so strongwilled and determined that he isn't really absorbed by Lavos. Rather, it's Lavos who is absorbed by King Zeal, thus resulting in a new entity controlled by King Zeal, who doesn't want to devour space-time but return in the timeline to... create a supernatural empire and conquer the universe... or maybe resume Lavos's quest for the meaning of life, but in a way much more rapid and violent than Lavos's regular life cycle...

The merging wouldn't be complete, since the TD has to survive for Chrono Cross. What we could have is the two beings still separated, but with a sort of huge energy vortex effect coming from the TD in the background to a metamorphosed King Zeal in the foreground, with the party at the bottom of the screen fighting him.

This is just a rough idea, as the goal of that almighty King Zeal is a bit sketchy. It would have to be something different than both Lavos's and the Time Devourer's goals, but still obviously something "evil", that the party would want to prevent.

This idea also kind of shifts, in the end, the feeling of "ultimate menace" from Lavos to King Zeal, so if it's implemented badly it could make Lavos looks too much like a wussy emo puppet while King Zeal would possibly seem too incredibly powerful. Yet, having the TD absorbed into King Zeal and fighting it would sort of neatly wraps up many story arcs of the game, since Schala but also Cedric the Executor are supposed to be part of that TD (though Cedric is just "felt", not seen since it happened long before Schala).

I don't know if this idea is good, overall. In the current scenario, the TD is seen but doesn't act; this is okay as the focus of the game is King Zeal, but it might possibly leave players slightly unsatisfied. Then again, if they feel the urge to play Chrono Cross after they finish Crimson Echoes, that's perfectly fine. Thoughts?

[nightmare975]

Would he be like Queen Zeal on the Black Omen?