Poll

Is the media's coverage of violence, death, destruction, and chaos in Iraq causing us to lose the war?

Yes.
1 (10%)
No.
9 (90%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 27, 2006, 03:53:26 am

Author Topic: CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day  (Read 2468 times)

Lord J Esq

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« on: March 27, 2006, 03:53:26 am »
As conditions in Iraq continue to deteriorate, Republicans have resorted to blaming our misfortunes there on the journalists covering the war. The charge: Our coverage is too negative.

Journalist Lara Logan, in Iraq, has something to say about that:



Ouch.

News organizations like CNN are betraying themselves by repeating the conservative lies that journalists are causing us to lose the war. Logan speaks very clearly and forcefully to the contrary, with an emotional touch of desperation in her voice. If every American could see this, our prosecution of the war, such as it is, would end tomorrow. Definitely watch this clip.

Daniel Krispin

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 04:24:44 am »
I don't know, and I'm in no manner qualified to comment on this. Honestly, as strange as it must seem to you Americans, I'm totally out of touch and disconnected with that whole war. Well, that and that I don't watch TV. But I think we get to hear very little about it up here. To me, Afghanistan is more pertinant, as we've got troops there. My godfather actually has sons who are there right now on Peacekeeping missions.

Lord J Esq

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 04:32:07 am »
We seem to be here, alone, at the same time tonight. In any case, you are fortunate that your government refused to go to war from the very beginning. I remember when former Prime Minister Martin made his speech before Parliament. It was a good day. And it got all of four seconds of television coverage here at the time.

Since then, the United States has killed tens of thousands of people, lost thousands of its own, and utterly bankrupted itself--not ethically (that too), but financially. Really, the budget here is very bad. Not simply are our annual deficits unsustainable; our public debt is crippling. Canada did well to distance itself from all of that...and would do still better to change its immigration policies to accept American refugees. Not that we'll be fleeing to your country or anything, but...you know...

Burning Zeppelin

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 05:14:26 am »
The war in iRaq can be concluded by:



Look carefully at the fine print.

Oh yeah, and *ahem* these too...
http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/children.jpgz16032.jpg


GrayLensman

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 05:47:21 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
The war in iRaq can be concluded by:


Do you know where this came from?

Quote
Oh yeah, and *ahem* these too...
http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/children.jpgz16032.jpg


That one is pretty graphic, so I changed it to a link.

Burning Zeppelin

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 06:21:05 am »
Sorry, not sure. Translations from the site didn't help:

~ Mashed potaties the miss have to me too much make flippé!! what a bitch lol if not I think that they are truths and they are well lol!!

~to answer grosbill it has says that it apelle tina and which can evaluate your university level if you wishes it but ptetre that your connection is bad whereas you do not extend because its must charge.

~It is funny but I ever heard the voice of the lady...
It says what???

~Ouai it is funny but its would not owe it!

But these pics aren't uncommon. Go to http://www.forkscrew.com/main.html for more info.

-----------------------

Nice move Gray, but I just thought that the members here were mature enough. Well, you the mod! *does Johnny Depp laugh*

ZeaLitY

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2006, 11:04:27 am »
Vietnam (even though sort of won by the numbers) was not lost due to journalistic coverage, and neither has Iraq been ruined for the same reason. So I'll agree.

I have another thing, though. Saddam's right hand man recently appeared on the Daily Show, and declared outright that he witnessed the WMDs shipped out and heard accounts from pilots who flew them to Syria. He says the brass is putting together the formal report right now before making an announcement. If this comes to pass, what will happen to the political climate?

Magus22

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2006, 11:18:56 am »
journalistic coverage has nothing to do with war efforts

it's simply a way for the media to continue to spread lies while the real truth is sadly wat is exactly going on in Iraq

i've had many friends come back, with pictures showing me the disgusting vile trash everywhere, unknown substances in the sand that looks like chocolate milk tar . . . it's hell

i don't want to get into a debate about war media and what not, it's simply this and only this

wat happens over there will ALWAYS be exaggerated to either make us look good or bad

it's a vicious cycle that's been repeated many many times over

Sentenal

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2006, 02:59:45 pm »
Am I the only one getting tired of these threads?

Vietnam was lost thanks to media coverage, and the anti-war movement.  We were mere months from victory there, the NVA had their back broken.  Yet we pulled out thanks to the anti-war movement, rendering all the deaths suffered there in vain.

In Iraq, I don't feel the war has been lost.  And if you are content with allowing us to loose, and your a US citizen, you should feel ashamed of yourself.

Zaperking

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2006, 04:37:56 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Am I the only one getting tired of these threads?

Vietnam was lost thanks to media coverage, and the anti-war movement.  We were mere months from victory there, the NVA had their back broken.  Yet we pulled out thanks to the anti-war movement, rendering all the deaths suffered there in vain.

In Iraq, I don't feel the war has been lost.  And if you are content with allowing us to loose, and your a US citizen, you should feel ashamed of yourself.


Funny enough, the war was un-invited. It's funny how your saying that the US Citizens should feel ashamed of themselves. That just shows what US Citizens have been taught all along, to be war supporters. Geez, thats an example why no body really likes the US these days - invading Iraq and the whole Middle East under your stupid president, or should I say Dictator wannabe.
Maybe the US should watch their backs. Actually, I kind of hope that the US gets whats coming for them. Whilst everyone is out in Iraq or whereever they have to be, in comes a fleet of Korean, Japanese, Russian, Chinese and eastern European ships and jets and they start taking over ^^...... Nah.

Lord J Esq

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2006, 04:40:57 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Am I the only one getting tired of these threads?

It is your choice to keep coming back into them to argue. And if by "these" you mean the three or four that are active on this board right now, I propose you are exaggerating.

Quote from: Sentenal
Vietnam was lost thanks to media coverage, and the anti-war movement.  We were mere months from victory there, the NVA had their back broken.  Yet we pulled out thanks to the anti-war movement, rendering all the deaths suffered there in vain.

In Iraq, I don't feel the war has been lost.  And if you are content with allowing us to loose, and your a US citizen, you should feel ashamed of yourself.

There is one way for us to still win. You might have heard in the news that some eighty percent of soldiers in Iraq think the war is now unwinnable. But what the news report probably did not include is that this statement was provisional: Those soldiers also agreed that increasing our troop levels in Iraq would make it winnable.

From the beginning we have had to few troops in Iraq. This was the fatal error of the Department of Defense, not the media. And we could still salvage it if we wanted--by doubling or tripling the number of American troops in Iraq, and keeping them there for many years to come. We would, of course, have to institute a draft and reawaken the military-industrial complex, but it could be done.

Ironically, this was the administration's main reasoning for going into Iraq with such a light force in the first place. Fewer troops for a shorter period would supposedly result in a cheaper, easier war--id est, a war the public could more easily rally behind.

But the administration's reasoning backfired. We sent in too few troops, and the only solution would be to inrease troops--something everyone in the administration had explicitly gone out of their way to avoid talking about.

The media have reported, more or less, that what we've got in Iraq right now isn't cutting it. We are losing. More honestly, Iraq is losing--to itself. This is the truth. And because of the administration's original strategy--and, presumably, its current strategy--the media have not widely reported that more troops would possibly solve our problems. It just isn't on the table. It isn't a Republican talking point. No one is talking about more troops. As a result, it isn't in the public scope of awareness that adding more troops is a viable solution. Pullout is the only solution of which they are aware. And because the war is going badly, public opinion has logically shifted in the direction of pullout.

Is Sentenal right, then? Are the media costing us the war? No. We literally are losing the war there, because the administration went to war with a faulty game plan. The media just happen to be reporting this fact.

Let's face it: The Republicans lost big, and reamed everyone else on their way down. At this point the only reasonable options are to call for a pullout, call for a draft, or continue on the road of delusion with President Bush. But on an individual level, I propose we let justice and irony win the day: Anyone who still wants us to win this war should enlist in the military. That means you, Sentenal.

Sentenal

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2006, 07:31:01 pm »
Josh, buddy, could you please tell me where you get your numbers from?  Just curious.

Lord J Esq

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2006, 08:21:12 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Josh, buddy, could you please tell me where you get your numbers from?  Just curious.

* 82 percent of Iraqis want us to leave; or, rather, are "strongly opposed" to our presence in Iraq. (Secret poll conducted for the British Ministry of Defense and intercepted by the London Sunday Telegraph; Source)

* 72 percent of our own troops want us to pull out within the year. (This includes a majority 51 percent who say we should pull out either immediately (29 percent) or within six months (22 percent).
(Zogby Int'l poll; Source)

* 60 percent of American civilians believe we should either reduce our troop levels in Iraq or pull out entirely. (NYT/CBS News poll; Source)

One statistic in particular that I wanted to show you--the percentage of troops who believe we will not win in Iraq because our troop levels are not high enough--I could not find. It is possible that I mistook that idea with the second poll mentioned above, but I would have sworn it was a seprate number. It's hard to google for troop polls because there are so many more civilian polls that they flood the search results. In any case, even if they're not exactly what I wanted, the numbers mentioned here still reflect what I said earlier, so let's take it from this point and move forward.

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2006, 12:29:55 am »
How exactly would you define success or victory in Iraq at this point? We won the war against Saddam and the Baathists; that was easy. The trouble is that there was no exit strategy, and no clearly defined terms of victory or defeat in the occupation. They had an election? Great, a new democracy. Too bad no government has formed as a result, and even when it does, it is most likely to be even more divided than the U.S. government at this point, and that's saying something. So what is a victory? The election? What if the new government imposes Sharia law, like in Afgahnastan? Surely, you've all heard about the case of the Afghani man who converted from Islam to Christianity, and is now be threated with execution under the law of the post-Taliban, democratically elected Afghan government?

Democracy is not some magic pancea. Not that it was the reason for going to war in Iraq, but I'd like to point that out anyway. Democracy isn't any better than a dictatorship if the people elect a dictator. I fail to see how the U.S. wins in the long run by replacing a mostly secular lunatic with a pannel of bickering zealot dictators, even if those dictators were chosen by the Iraqi people.

So, I reiterate my question. What are the terms of victory and defeat for the United States at this stage in the Iraq conflict?

GreenGannon

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CBS Iraq War Journalist Lara Logan: Hero of the Day
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2006, 12:35:10 am »
Still, isn't a bit of a stretch to say we're losing? I mean if you compare to Vietnam or Korea, then we're not losing that many troops. I mean yeah, I understand that *any* death is tragic. But from a statistical standpoint...