Author Topic: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?  (Read 1276 times)

Kanadyets

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2007, 12:44:31 am »
To add to the country music idiocy, the country music facet of the industry typically ignores bands that don't cater to their rigid, disgusting American conservative beliefs on everything. (Read: hardline xenophobic rights-abusing morons.) Which is unfortunate, as this made many problems for the Dixie Chicks. Now, I'm not too big a fan of country for many personal reasons, but I do like the Dixie Chicks. They're neat and they're good at what they do. (I've always been partial to all female bands anyway...I love Celtic Woman, for instance.) Yet because of their American liberal beliefs(which probably aren't anywhere near as liberal as I am, but that is irrelevant) they're ignored and generally treated as trash by the country music industry. Idiots, the whole lot of them.

What we need for music these days is another Queen or something similiarly prolific yet good. Someone or some band that will turn the industry back into the way it should be.

Now while I agree that the Dixie Chicks may not have been treated very well, it's not like they played their cards right throughout that whole fiasco.  After the comments about the President, they were playing a concert in Atlanta where they were soundly booed.  The response from Natalie Mains (I don't know if I spelt that properly, but I think her nails across slate voice deserves the dishonour) was something to the effect of "Oh well, we still have your $62.50(or however much it was)".  Not exactly what I would call diplomacy.

Further, if you identify the country music scene as being made-up of rights abusing morons (which really is an unnecessary generalization) then they should be well aware of the crowd for whom they're playing.  The views that these fans have, right or wrong, are theirs to hold, and if a musician or a band wants to insult that, they deserve whatever treatment they get.  It's by no means a reasonable response, but they should have expected no less.

Kanadyets

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2007, 12:48:48 am »
I just don't like it when one corporation tries establishing a monopoly. I don't care if you're Microsoft or Nintendo, Clear Channel or Apple, or anything else, screw you and screw your monopoly. In the end it only harms the consumer and the general populace.

First of all, it's virtually impossible to establish a monopoly in a market as elastic as gaming consoles or wireless communications.  There are too many competitors.  Secondly, in a naturally occuring monopoly (if such a thing can be said to exist, as it's debatable), a company can't simply gouge its customers.  To do so would be to invite competition or force its customers to seek out substitutes.  Granted, they could undercut said competition, but it would come down on their bottom line, and there's always going to be more potential competitors out there if they return to gouging.  It's not a sustainable method for doing business.

Kyronea

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2007, 12:58:25 am »
...

True enough, Kanadyets. (And I just realized what your name actually means...shows how obvious I can be.)

And it was an unfair generalization...I was mainly referring to support of things like bans on gay marriage, or supporting Guantanamo Bay, as opposed to personally abusing someone's rights, so I guess I should say rights-abuse supporter, not rights abuser.


First of all, it's virtually impossible to establish a monopoly in a market as elastic as gaming consoles or wireless communications.  There are too many competitors.  Secondly, in a naturally occuring monopoly (if such a thing can be said to exist, as it's debatable), a company can't simply gouge its customers.  To do so would be to invite competition or force its customers to seek out substitutes.  Granted, they could undercut said competition, but it would come down on their bottom line, and there's always going to be more potential competitors out there if they return to gouging.  It's not a sustainable method for doing business.

Let me rephrase: I don't like companies that try to establish monopolies where such monopolies are not naturally occuring. Microsoft did its damndest to do so, even going so far as making Internet Explorer--one of the most insecure pieces of shit I have ever seen--an essential part of Windows that cannot be removed, for instance. And your argument, while sound on paper, does not work in practice. Monopolies do gouge customers and they do so regularly, as we can observe from monopolies established in the past.

So the way I see it, a monopoly is useless and only hurts consumers. I honestly cannot see an upside to a monopoly. With a monopoly on any sort of good you are forced to use that one variation on the good. Imagine what it would be like if we all had to use IBM manufactured computer parts, or could only drink the one flavour of soda that is Coca-Cola? Competition is very important. Certainly in many instances the products show little to no variation in terms of efficiency of usage, but oftentimes they do, so you need that variation.

Kanadyets

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2007, 01:26:53 am »
True enough, Kanadyets. (And I just realized what your name actually means...shows how obvious I can be.)

Don't worry about it.  It's actually Russian, and not even in the Cyrillic alphabet, so I'd say you're ahead of the curve in catching on.

And it was an unfair generalization...I was mainly referring to support of things like bans on gay marriage, or supporting Guantanamo Bay, as opposed to personally abusing someone's rights, so I guess I should say rights-abuse supporter, not rights abuser.

It's not out of the question, of course.  Coming from the Canadian west, I've certainly observed more than I'd like to have.  Nevertheless, there are those who can enjoy country music and still maintain a liberal perspective.  Now if only they were classical liberals instead of modern liberals...but I digress.

Let me rephrase: I don't like companies that try to establish monopolies where such monopolies are not naturally occuring. Microsoft did its damndest to do so, even going so far as making Internet Explorer--one of the most insecure pieces of shit I have ever seen--an essential part of Windows that cannot be removed, for instance. And your argument, while sound on paper, does not work in practice. Monopolies do gouge customers and they do so regularly, as we can observe from monopolies established in the past.

So the way I see it, a monopoly is useless and only hurts consumers. I honestly cannot see an upside to a monopoly. With a monopoly on any sort of good you are forced to use that one variation on the good. Imagine what it would be like if we all had to use IBM manufactured computer parts, or could only drink the one flavour of soda that is Coca-Cola? Competition is very important. Certainly in many instances the products show little to no variation in terms of efficiency of usage, but oftentimes they do, so you need that variation.

I'd like some examples of this gouging actually working out in practice, if you don't mind.  For the sake of logical propriety, of course.  With regards to the issue of Microsoft, as you say, they tried to establish a monopoly.  We still have linux out there, and as far as IE is concerned, there is Mozilla.  It's not as though taking 100% control of a market is as simple as saying the word monopoly.  With regards to gouging in specific, I suppose I should not have said that they can't gouge their customers, but rather that they would be unwise to do so as it's a poor way to do business and will harm them as their customers can go elsewhere.  I will grant that it becomes less of an option in inelastic markets.  Mind you that's only the case when dealing with things that are scarce (oil) rather than things that are plentiful (salt).  Both are examples of inelastic markets.  However, to add to the example of the oil industry (hopefully soon to become very elastic...go R&D!) I don't know if it's reasonable to call it gouging when people still line up to pay for it.  If you want it, you have to shell out.  Pun not intended.  And it's only going to get worse as supplies dwindle.

Lastly, I'm not trying to give the impression that I oppose competition.  Far from it.  As you say, a stale market benefits no one.  Especially since you provide the Coke example and I'm a Pepsi man.  I'm just saying that it's not necessarily reasonable to toss around a term like monopoly since their exceedingly rare (I say non-existent in terms of natural monopolies), and also because in so doing, you're poisoning the well.  Very few people out there perceive it to be a positive thing, and when using it incorrectly you may be fallaciously effecting the opinions of your readers.

Kyronea

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2007, 01:42:35 am »

Don't worry about it.  It's actually Russian, and not even in the Cyrillic alphabet, so I'd say you're ahead of the curve in catching on.
...

You mean it's not actually Canadian Idiots turned into a word? Canadiots? It's not? Damn it! Now I feel even stupider!

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It's not out of the question, of course.  Coming from the Canadian west, I've certainly observed more than I'd like to have.  Nevertheless, there are those who can enjoy country music and still maintain a liberal perspective.  Now if only they were classical liberals instead of modern liberals...but I digress.
Hence why it was an unfair generalization, not to mention a classic example of my inability to fully specify exactly who and what I am talking about.
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I'd like some examples of this gouging actually working out in practice, if you don't mind.  For the sake of logical propriety, of course.  With regards to the issue of Microsoft, as you say, they tried to establish a monopoly.  We still have linux out there, and as far as IE is concerned, there is Mozilla.  It's not as though taking 100% control of a market is as simple as saying the word monopoly.  With regards to gouging in specific, I suppose I should not have said that they can't gouge their customers, but rather that they would be unwise to do so as it's a poor way to do business and will harm them as their customers can go elsewhere.  I will grant that it becomes less of an option in inelastic markets.  Mind you that's only the case when dealing with things that are scarce (oil) rather than things that are plentiful (salt).  Both are examples of inelastic markets.  However, to add to the example of the oil industry (hopefully soon to become very elastic...go R&D!) I don't know if it's reasonable to call it gouging when people still line up to pay for it.  If you want it, you have to shell out.  Pun not intended.  And it's only going to get worse as supplies dwindle.
The oil industry right now is not an example of price gouging. Far from it: the prices now are realistic, while prices previously were actually artificially reduced. While oil companies are making large sums of money, their profit margins are about 12%, versus the profit margains of a lot of other companies, say, Microsoft, which makes a margain of 25%. Thus arguments about their gouging customers for the sake of profits are not only uninformed, they are completely baseless.

But as for your example...I don't actually have one beyond my prior mentioning of the trusts at the beginning of the twentieth century and Microsofts attempts.
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Lastly, I'm not trying to give the impression that I oppose competition.  Far from it.  As you say, a stale market benefits no one.  Especially since you provide the Coke example and I'm a Pepsi man.  I'm just saying that it's not necessarily reasonable to toss around a term like monopoly since their exceedingly rare (I say non-existent in terms of natural monopolies), and also because in so doing, you're poisoning the well.  Very few people out there perceive it to be a positive thing, and when using it incorrectly you may be fallaciously effecting the opinions of your readers.
Indeed. I do this far too often.

Kanadyets

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2007, 02:10:29 am »

Don't worry about it.  It's actually Russian, and not even in the Cyrillic alphabet, so I'd say you're ahead of the curve in catching on.
...

You mean it's not actually Canadian Idiots turned into a word? Canadiots? It's not? Damn it! Now I feel even stupider!

Nope, it's just the Russian word for a male Canadian.  Rather plain, I suppose, but I like it all the same.  In any case, don't worry about it.  You at least figured out that it pertained to Canada in one way or another, which is more than can be said for most.

The oil industry right now is not an example of price gouging. Far from it: the prices now are realistic, while prices previously were actually artificially reduced. While oil companies are making large sums of money, their profit margins are about 12%, versus the profit margains of a lot of other companies, say, Microsoft, which makes a margain of 25%. Thus arguments about their gouging customers for the sake of profits are not only uninformed, they are completely baseless.

But as for your example...I don't actually have one beyond my prior mentioning of the trusts at the beginning of the twentieth century and Microsofts attempts.

I agree with you regarding gouging at the pumps and I'm actually quite impressed.  Rightly or wrongly, gas prices is the sort of thing that really tends to enflame the passions of people since no one likes paying a lot for gas.  As such, gouging becomes a typical response.  Actually, I'm sure there's going to be several articles in the local newspapers talking about just such a thing as we're headed into our holiday weekend up here.  In addition to the example of profit margins, I don't really consider it gouging since there's very few people out there that actually HAVE to drive everywhere.  I know most would state that they have absolutely no alternative, but that's usually nonsense.  They just hate the alternatives more than they do paying for the gas.  Anyhow, I apologize for lumping you in with what I normally have for expectations.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2007, 09:11:13 pm »
That whole "post grunge" movement, like Nickleback, sucks. Example: http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

Obviously no creativity there.

I hate country music as much as the next person, but a few acts are good, like Will Oldham and all his pseudonyms like Bonnie "Prince" Billy and Palace Music, Wilco, and Bright Eyes.

Glennleo

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2007, 09:48:34 pm »
That whole "post grunge" movement, like Nickleback, sucks. Example: http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

I've been saying that forever. Every song sounds the same to me, and people think I'm crazy when I say that.
Nickelback sucks.
Every song of theirs sounds the same, and this site freaking proves it. Great post Burning Zeppelin.

Kanadyets

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2007, 02:20:11 am »

It gets worse.  I don't know if you folks down south have any exposure to Theory of a Dead Man.  From Alberta, like Nickleback.  Produced by Nickleback (well Chad Kroeger).  Sounds EXACTLY LIKE NICKLEBACK!

I've said it before and I'll say it again: stupid CanCon laws, damned CRTC.

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Glennleo

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Re: Is Apple Following In Sony's Mistaken Footsteps?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2007, 03:23:22 am »
Now I can build my own iPhone. HURRAY!!!