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1
Fan Fiction / Re: Crimson Echoes - The Novelization
« on: September 28, 2009, 01:26:05 pm »
I'm not exactly certain. While I currently have the first five chapters up (and they will be updated with a more detailed representation of the surroundings as I did in Chapter 1), tonight I'm going to post my plan for the next section of the story, which is the Magus portion in 11,995 B.C. My goal for the section of the forums which is basically the upcoming chapters is to list what I've planned on doing, and get feedback from everyone who wants to put their two cents in on it.
I don't have to worry about giving anything away, because chances are those who would be discussing the novel have already seen the entire playthrough.
I don't have to worry about giving anything away, because chances are those who would be discussing the novel have already seen the entire playthrough.
2
Fan Fiction / Crimson Echoes - The Novelization
« on: September 28, 2009, 10:37:10 am »
Hello all!
Yes, it's true! There is a novelization of the game-that-almost-was, or rather would-have-been-the-best-game-out-there! As ZeaLitY posted in a previous update, I have taken on the task of writing the novelization, and the current five chapters can be found at http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5272474/1/. I used RealPlayer to download all the videos, so there's no problem with finishing it by myself...however...
My hope is that you all will help me by giving your viewpoints on what's been done so far, as well as suggest paths for the future. I have created a small forum board to help coordinate making the novelization the best it can be. This board can be found at http://crimsonechoes.freeforums.org/index.php.
Now, I know you are probably saying "I barely have time to check the Compendium's forums let alone another!" If you are interested, feel free to sign up over there, and we can start the reviews and suggestions as soon as you guys want to jump in. The forums are designed to help the novelization along, with such features as discussion on the chapters so far (anyone who is involved there will see the chapter after one of the directors of the game has reviewed it but before it gets posted to the fanfiction site so you can give your honest opinion on it), an entire section devoted to upcoming chapters (so you can discuss what should be included, especially in background scenes that aren't viewed through the walkthrough videos), and general discussions that don't fall into the above topics. It's really geared towards turning Crimson Echoes into a great novel.
Feel free to discuss what you've read in more detail there, or even here if you aren't certain about joining a new forum board. Help me make this a novelization to do a great game justice!
Stenir
Yes, it's true! There is a novelization of the game-that-almost-was, or rather would-have-been-the-best-game-out-there! As ZeaLitY posted in a previous update, I have taken on the task of writing the novelization, and the current five chapters can be found at http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5272474/1/. I used RealPlayer to download all the videos, so there's no problem with finishing it by myself...however...
My hope is that you all will help me by giving your viewpoints on what's been done so far, as well as suggest paths for the future. I have created a small forum board to help coordinate making the novelization the best it can be. This board can be found at http://crimsonechoes.freeforums.org/index.php.
Now, I know you are probably saying "I barely have time to check the Compendium's forums let alone another!" If you are interested, feel free to sign up over there, and we can start the reviews and suggestions as soon as you guys want to jump in. The forums are designed to help the novelization along, with such features as discussion on the chapters so far (anyone who is involved there will see the chapter after one of the directors of the game has reviewed it but before it gets posted to the fanfiction site so you can give your honest opinion on it), an entire section devoted to upcoming chapters (so you can discuss what should be included, especially in background scenes that aren't viewed through the walkthrough videos), and general discussions that don't fall into the above topics. It's really geared towards turning Crimson Echoes into a great novel.
Feel free to discuss what you've read in more detail there, or even here if you aren't certain about joining a new forum board. Help me make this a novelization to do a great game justice!
Stenir
3
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Pocket Dimension - When is Lavos defeated?
« on: August 12, 2009, 03:53:19 pm »
IIRC, when Lavos erupts for you to fight him after each completion of the Zeal battle, he's always erupting from the ocean in 12,000 B.C. That's what I saw while playing PSX CT. I'm assuming they didn't change the programming for the Black Omen in CTDS, so what's that look like? When you complete the Black Omen (preferably in 1000, then 600, then 12,000 B.C.), what does Lavos erupt from? Land, or the ocean?
In all honesty, I think it's nothing more than something which needs to have gameplay-negation enacted for it.
In all honesty, I think it's nothing more than something which needs to have gameplay-negation enacted for it.
4
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: A single Gate's ability to send multiple people to different times?
« on: August 06, 2009, 06:02:28 pm »
That's what I meant; I probably didn't type it right.
In the Old Timeline:
Janus-1 enters gate.
Janus-1 travels through gate.
Janus-1 exits gate.
In the New Timeline:
Janus-2 enters gate.
Janus-2 travels through gate.
At threshold of exiting gate, Janus-2 is TB'd and Janus-1 exist gate.
If TTI states the last exit from a gate is what is preserved, then Janus-1 would only appear at the exit of the gate, meaning that Janus-2 would be experiencing entering and traveling through the gate. Janus-2 would also see the exit, and reach it...but never exit. Janus-1 takes over that part of the job.
Bad graphical example:
ENTRANCE TO GATE MID-GATE EXIT--|
22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222111111111111111
I knew Janus-1 would exit, but it just doesn't make sense for Janus-2 to enter the gate, and then be TB'd at that moment, with Janus-1 traveling. Janus-1 shouldn't appear until the actual exit from the gate. Which is why I questioned how the statement arose that the gate was sending them to the DBT. I took it to be the gate was activated to preserve TB, and therefore was to serve the same purpose. The actual "exit" from the gate is what TB's them, not the gate itself.
The only way I can explain this decently is imagine one of those oval shaped mirrors on a frame off the ground; those ones that aren't on a wall, kinda in the open. Imagine that only the frame is there, no glass, and it's straight up and down. Janus-2 walks up to it, and goes to step through. As he passes through the frame which would hold the glass for the mirror, he is replaced with Janus-1. He does not get replaced as he is walking to the mirror, only when he goes "through" the frame.
In the Old Timeline:
Janus-1 enters gate.
Janus-1 travels through gate.
Janus-1 exits gate.
In the New Timeline:
Janus-2 enters gate.
Janus-2 travels through gate.
At threshold of exiting gate, Janus-2 is TB'd and Janus-1 exist gate.
If TTI states the last exit from a gate is what is preserved, then Janus-1 would only appear at the exit of the gate, meaning that Janus-2 would be experiencing entering and traveling through the gate. Janus-2 would also see the exit, and reach it...but never exit. Janus-1 takes over that part of the job.
Bad graphical example:
ENTRANCE TO GATE MID-GATE EXIT--|
22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222111111111111111
I knew Janus-1 would exit, but it just doesn't make sense for Janus-2 to enter the gate, and then be TB'd at that moment, with Janus-1 traveling. Janus-1 shouldn't appear until the actual exit from the gate. Which is why I questioned how the statement arose that the gate was sending them to the DBT. I took it to be the gate was activated to preserve TB, and therefore was to serve the same purpose. The actual "exit" from the gate is what TB's them, not the gate itself.
The only way I can explain this decently is imagine one of those oval shaped mirrors on a frame off the ground; those ones that aren't on a wall, kinda in the open. Imagine that only the frame is there, no glass, and it's straight up and down. Janus-2 walks up to it, and goes to step through. As he passes through the frame which would hold the glass for the mirror, he is replaced with Janus-1. He does not get replaced as he is walking to the mirror, only when he goes "through" the frame.
5
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: A single Gate's ability to send multiple people to different times?
« on: August 06, 2009, 05:37:35 pm »
I got lost reading a bunch of that, because it seemed to go off on a tangent for me. The original question was how did one gate during the Ocean Palace Incident suck two different people in it to two different times. Doesn't the simple answer to this go back to TTI? There's that statement in TTI that says a time traveler's EXIT from a gate is preserved, not the entrance.
And of course, the thought so far as I've read in this thread is that the gate sends them to the DBT. When a gate takes a time traveler like this at the appointed time (following rules of TB), why couldn't the gate take them in, close, and then right as they are about to exit, they get TB'd?
Meaning, if you were the new Janus, you'd get sucked into the gate, travel through the gate, and upon reaching the threshold of the exit side of the gate, you'd be TB'd. Not before, not during, but right at the gate threshold.
I thought the reason to explain the graphical differences for the gates was because these were created by Lavos (originally). The blue and red ones were made by the entity. A gate created by time due to TTI would therefore exhibit the same setup (the Crono in the 1000 AD where Marle doesn't exist would still be sucked in by a blue gate, for example).
And the main thing I was going to point out is that Lavos' gates are short lived, but that probably means that there is a greater amount of control. Something along the lines of he is able to control where the gates go, but he gets that control at the expense of duration. Less control, longer gate existence. Sorta like burning through the power at a rapid rate.
And of course, the thought so far as I've read in this thread is that the gate sends them to the DBT. When a gate takes a time traveler like this at the appointed time (following rules of TB), why couldn't the gate take them in, close, and then right as they are about to exit, they get TB'd?
Meaning, if you were the new Janus, you'd get sucked into the gate, travel through the gate, and upon reaching the threshold of the exit side of the gate, you'd be TB'd. Not before, not during, but right at the gate threshold.
I thought the reason to explain the graphical differences for the gates was because these were created by Lavos (originally). The blue and red ones were made by the entity. A gate created by time due to TTI would therefore exhibit the same setup (the Crono in the 1000 AD where Marle doesn't exist would still be sucked in by a blue gate, for example).
And the main thing I was going to point out is that Lavos' gates are short lived, but that probably means that there is a greater amount of control. Something along the lines of he is able to control where the gates go, but he gets that control at the expense of duration. Less control, longer gate existence. Sorta like burning through the power at a rapid rate.
6
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 05, 2009, 11:50:40 am »
Well, I don't see why it couldn't be possible. I've run out of things to use as any sort of basis. The only thing I can say at this point in response to Schala's quote is that we don't know exactly what happened afterward. We know the Chrono Cross is a powerful item, though we don't know exactly how powerful.
Is there any way to contact Kato to find out what exactly was going through his mind?
Is there any way to contact Kato to find out what exactly was going through his mind?
7
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 05, 2009, 11:29:04 am »
There are other dimensions out there; that much I agree upon. The RD is one of them. I know the original dimension CT/CC took place in had Lavos not land; thus forming the Reptite Timeline. Lavos lands, Reptite Timeline gets shunted to DBT. Now, there may be a dimension where the Reptite Timeline is the main timeline; but if there's one thing I've noticed is that for a long time timeline and dimension were used interchangeably.
Nullified doesn't have to mean "zero". It can also mean "having no effect". You can nullify a marriage, but does that automatically mean it never took effect in the first place? You can nullify any legal document, but does that automatically mean that any action taken upon it while it was in effect is now void and illegal? No. The two main descriptions for "nullify" are: 1) to put an end to; and 2) to make ineffective by applying an opposite force or amount.
As for countless worlds...they'd have to be finite, otherwise there wouldn't be the need for a DBT in the first place. You would just be doing the whole Back to the Future thing, going down one branch of the tree to go backwards in time, then just going up a different tree to return to the future. Of course, that didn't even hold true for Marty McFly, who technically shouldn't have started to disappear since he was from an alternate universe's future (i.e., his arrival in the past meant he was no longer in the same timeline). Then again, under our thought, he shoulda had TTI. Giggity.
I hate the term "alive" and "dead". Okay, so the entry for the compendium for DBT states that the discarded timelines are just information. If that's true, then why during the final fight are the dimensions physically going by you? Who is to say that you couldn't access the dimensions by triggering them with a gate key? They look gate shaped, after all.
This is one of those things that we just don't have enough information on. We've come to a conclusion that nothing physically exists in the DBT, yet we turn around and have a physical confrontation there at the end of CC?
Nullified doesn't have to mean "zero". It can also mean "having no effect". You can nullify a marriage, but does that automatically mean it never took effect in the first place? You can nullify any legal document, but does that automatically mean that any action taken upon it while it was in effect is now void and illegal? No. The two main descriptions for "nullify" are: 1) to put an end to; and 2) to make ineffective by applying an opposite force or amount.
As for countless worlds...they'd have to be finite, otherwise there wouldn't be the need for a DBT in the first place. You would just be doing the whole Back to the Future thing, going down one branch of the tree to go backwards in time, then just going up a different tree to return to the future. Of course, that didn't even hold true for Marty McFly, who technically shouldn't have started to disappear since he was from an alternate universe's future (i.e., his arrival in the past meant he was no longer in the same timeline). Then again, under our thought, he shoulda had TTI. Giggity.
I hate the term "alive" and "dead". Okay, so the entry for the compendium for DBT states that the discarded timelines are just information. If that's true, then why during the final fight are the dimensions physically going by you? Who is to say that you couldn't access the dimensions by triggering them with a gate key? They look gate shaped, after all.
This is one of those things that we just don't have enough information on. We've come to a conclusion that nothing physically exists in the DBT, yet we turn around and have a physical confrontation there at the end of CC?
8
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 05, 2009, 09:30:39 am »
Well, the statement may be said in AW. As we know, Belthasar is a sneaky little Guru, since his Library shows up in the tower as a sort of third dimension to this all. However, if you could get straight to the TD from AW, then shouldn't the Time Egg be immediately useable without having to jump back over to HW?
Besides, Belthasar says a lot of cryptic things, and likes to play games. Remember his statement about the Time Crash? He says we might think it was a failure, but he "jokingly" asks us to think whether or not it may have actually been a success. His "finest hour"? He plays games...but you still have to trek to HW to use it. If AW could access the TD, then I would agree that AW is not in the DBT, and therefore part of normal space-time. But since you can't, and you have to return to HW, this means that AW is not in normal space-time. And the only place I know of off-hand that doesn't exist in space-time is the DBT.
I don't say a timeline in the DBT is "dead", just "defunct". Think about it. The Reptite Dimension was shunted to the DBT when Lavos fell, but it still remained alive; otherwise, Dinopolis couldn't have been brought over. Now I know that many people are going to say that statement is wrong, that the Reptite Dimension from which Dinopolis was brought over was from a different "base" dimension. But that in itself doesn't make sense. If the CT/CC base dimension was the Reptite Timeline, why would another dimension be the same base dimension? It makes more sense for the DBT timelines to still be active, but unreachable except through special means.
The compendium's encyclopedia entry for the DBT doesn't actually say that timelines sent there are "dead", in fact it only says they are "nullified". That doesn't necessarily mean it's all destroyed and no longer functional.
And also, the compendium's principle of discarded timelines entry states that although Marle's ghost said the ruined future is about to return, it was cryptic and probably only really meant that the destruction caused by Lavos was going to happen again, but not necessarily the exact same carnage. I don't think she could have actually meant that Lavos was going to erupt in the exact same way, and everything was going to go as it originally did.
Besides, Belthasar says a lot of cryptic things, and likes to play games. Remember his statement about the Time Crash? He says we might think it was a failure, but he "jokingly" asks us to think whether or not it may have actually been a success. His "finest hour"? He plays games...but you still have to trek to HW to use it. If AW could access the TD, then I would agree that AW is not in the DBT, and therefore part of normal space-time. But since you can't, and you have to return to HW, this means that AW is not in normal space-time. And the only place I know of off-hand that doesn't exist in space-time is the DBT.
I don't say a timeline in the DBT is "dead", just "defunct". Think about it. The Reptite Dimension was shunted to the DBT when Lavos fell, but it still remained alive; otherwise, Dinopolis couldn't have been brought over. Now I know that many people are going to say that statement is wrong, that the Reptite Dimension from which Dinopolis was brought over was from a different "base" dimension. But that in itself doesn't make sense. If the CT/CC base dimension was the Reptite Timeline, why would another dimension be the same base dimension? It makes more sense for the DBT timelines to still be active, but unreachable except through special means.
The compendium's encyclopedia entry for the DBT doesn't actually say that timelines sent there are "dead", in fact it only says they are "nullified". That doesn't necessarily mean it's all destroyed and no longer functional.
And also, the compendium's principle of discarded timelines entry states that although Marle's ghost said the ruined future is about to return, it was cryptic and probably only really meant that the destruction caused by Lavos was going to happen again, but not necessarily the exact same carnage. I don't think she could have actually meant that Lavos was going to erupt in the exact same way, and everything was going to go as it originally did.
9
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 05, 2009, 02:45:33 am »
What words of Belthasar's are you using which define AW as not being a part of the DBT? During the first conversation you have with him during the assault on Viper Manor, there is a point where it comes up that AW may be the "alternate", meaning HW is the current timeline. I just re-read it a bunch of times, and went through all of his lines from the script (both as Belthasar and as Prophet).
Gotta love picking apart scripted lines.
Gotta love picking apart scripted lines.
10
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 04, 2009, 11:47:36 am »
I get that, but I mean in a normal New Game, not + or anything, the first time you encounter the gate to the TD is on Home World's Opassa Beach. If you gate over to Another World, is that TD gate still there? Or does it only exist on HW's Opassa Beach at that point? Plotiwse you aren't introduced to it until HW's Opassa Beach.
I understand for a New Game + it HAS to be in both for gameplay mechanics, but once again we don't (or at least, I assume we don't) accept New Game + as anything more than a gameplay mechanic.
EDIT:
I just pulled a save file from GameFAQs that is NOT a New Game +, and you can access the TD Gate from only HW. If you go to AW and go where the TD Gate is supposed to be, it isn't there. So, other than gameplay mechanics, I think the canon version of events is that you can defeat the TD only from HW. You can only access it on AW during a New Game +.
Note, that I understand the reason it has to be there in AW for the endings, but the endings aren't canon because you aren't supposed to beat the TD until the very end of the game. Any other attempt to defeat it beforehand are just extra bonuses for doing it that way.
So, I think since in a first run you can't access the gate from AW, it's possible my theory could exist. When I get up to defeating the TD, I can give out the memory card file if you want proof of it. I don't know any way of showing the evidence I have (would a picture of AW Opassa Beach without the TD gate but showing that I have the Time Egg in my inventory be enough?).
I've attached three pictures (1 and 2 are from exact same save file):
1) Home World with Time Devourer Gate - First Run
2) Another World without Time Devourer Gate - First Run
3) Another World with Time Devourer Gate - First Run, after Continue Plus over top of it (i.e., TD is beat, clear file saved separately, then Continue+ on the original file)
You can clearly see the TD gate on #1 and #3, but it's not there on #2. So, I think (unless someone has some evidence to refute this) that TD being accessed from AW is only on a "new game +" setting, which is therefore not considered canon.
I understand for a New Game + it HAS to be in both for gameplay mechanics, but once again we don't (or at least, I assume we don't) accept New Game + as anything more than a gameplay mechanic.
EDIT:
I just pulled a save file from GameFAQs that is NOT a New Game +, and you can access the TD Gate from only HW. If you go to AW and go where the TD Gate is supposed to be, it isn't there. So, other than gameplay mechanics, I think the canon version of events is that you can defeat the TD only from HW. You can only access it on AW during a New Game +.
Note, that I understand the reason it has to be there in AW for the endings, but the endings aren't canon because you aren't supposed to beat the TD until the very end of the game. Any other attempt to defeat it beforehand are just extra bonuses for doing it that way.
So, I think since in a first run you can't access the gate from AW, it's possible my theory could exist. When I get up to defeating the TD, I can give out the memory card file if you want proof of it. I don't know any way of showing the evidence I have (would a picture of AW Opassa Beach without the TD gate but showing that I have the Time Egg in my inventory be enough?).
I've attached three pictures (1 and 2 are from exact same save file):
1) Home World with Time Devourer Gate - First Run
2) Another World without Time Devourer Gate - First Run
3) Another World with Time Devourer Gate - First Run, after Continue Plus over top of it (i.e., TD is beat, clear file saved separately, then Continue+ on the original file)
You can clearly see the TD gate on #1 and #3, but it's not there on #2. So, I think (unless someone has some evidence to refute this) that TD being accessed from AW is only on a "new game +" setting, which is therefore not considered canon.
11
Submissions / Re: Chrimson Echoes - The DVD Expierence
« on: August 04, 2009, 11:30:32 am »
Why couldn't the picture of Crono looking at the Frozen Flame be the background, and have the Epoch's Time Gauge be the menu itself? You know, like "Play" being where End of Time is, "Audio" where 2300 AD is, etc.
12
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 04, 2009, 11:07:12 am »
So, that's a New Game+ thing? What about in a normal playthrough?
I'm waiting until I hit 99* (stars) before going after extra endings, so I always end up kicking the TD's butt from HW. If the TD is only accessible from AW on a New Game+, does the compendium count that as a part of "canonical", or just gameplay mechanics?
I always took the first runthrough as what was canon, unless defined further (I always defeated Lavos through 12000 BC Black Omen, as it was the last thing left to do).
I'm waiting until I hit 99* (stars) before going after extra endings, so I always end up kicking the TD's butt from HW. If the TD is only accessible from AW on a New Game+, does the compendium count that as a part of "canonical", or just gameplay mechanics?
I always took the first runthrough as what was canon, unless defined further (I always defeated Lavos through 12000 BC Black Omen, as it was the last thing left to do).
13
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 04, 2009, 10:50:15 am »
I don't remember being able to access the TD from AW. Then again, I've never tried to. I've always accessed it from HW. I'm playing through it, partially to max out stats and partially for very intensive reading of the script (without reading from a script itself). If that's the case, well, my theory gets shot.
Woulda been a nice theory, eh?
Hm...
Stretch: what if the DBT was nothing more than all the other dimensions which we aren't currently in? All we say is that the DBT is a wastebasket for the discarded timelines. What if DBT is relative? Like, if we are in universe 05, universes 01-04 are in DBT? And in the same example, if we are in 04, than 01-03, and 05 are DBT? We don't exactly know the mechanics of the DBT, so that is something I'd like to think more on.
I don't want to sound like I don't believe you, Acacia Sgt, but can anyone back up that you can go to the TD from AW? I've never done it, but I'll try in this playthrough.
Woulda been a nice theory, eh?
Hm...
Stretch: what if the DBT was nothing more than all the other dimensions which we aren't currently in? All we say is that the DBT is a wastebasket for the discarded timelines. What if DBT is relative? Like, if we are in universe 05, universes 01-04 are in DBT? And in the same example, if we are in 04, than 01-03, and 05 are DBT? We don't exactly know the mechanics of the DBT, so that is something I'd like to think more on.
I don't want to sound like I don't believe you, Acacia Sgt, but can anyone back up that you can go to the TD from AW? I've never done it, but I'll try in this playthrough.
14
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Pocket Dimension - When is Lavos defeated?
« on: August 04, 2009, 08:47:19 am »
The Black Omen was one of those things that I believe the developers only really intended for you to accomplish once: in 12,000 B.C. It goes with canon, after all, that you defeat Lavos from that point.
I think they only programmed it once, and each time you access it, it draws from the same point. This explains why the bosses are not able to be fought, except for the main bosses. My reasoning is that once you reach that point, you are able to leave the Black Omen; the dev team didn't want you to have to fight any of the bosses again, so they did the common "switch" thing for them. Once you beat it, switch goes on and you never have to fight it again. EVER.
The difference with the final bosses in the Black Omen is that the dev team only planned for you to fight them once, but since they were at the end of the Black Omen, you shouldn't have been able to fight them again. So...chances are they just ignored putting a switch on to prevent fighting them again.
It's a "we only mean for you to do it in 12,000 B.C." programming thought mixed with "oh crap we overlooked something" for a release. Works in our favor for gameplay (yay for charming that dress three times). If we stop at fighting it in 12,000 B.C. first and nothing else, we have a canonical playthrough; if we fight it all three times or even two, and try to make it canonical, then we run into problems.
It's suggested that Lavos is defeated in 12,000 B.C., after the destruction of Zeal, after the Black Omen is completed (gameplay completed, not construction completed). So, the intention is to defeat him at that point.
I think they only programmed it once, and each time you access it, it draws from the same point. This explains why the bosses are not able to be fought, except for the main bosses. My reasoning is that once you reach that point, you are able to leave the Black Omen; the dev team didn't want you to have to fight any of the bosses again, so they did the common "switch" thing for them. Once you beat it, switch goes on and you never have to fight it again. EVER.
The difference with the final bosses in the Black Omen is that the dev team only planned for you to fight them once, but since they were at the end of the Black Omen, you shouldn't have been able to fight them again. So...chances are they just ignored putting a switch on to prevent fighting them again.
It's a "we only mean for you to do it in 12,000 B.C." programming thought mixed with "oh crap we overlooked something" for a release. Works in our favor for gameplay (yay for charming that dress three times). If we stop at fighting it in 12,000 B.C. first and nothing else, we have a canonical playthrough; if we fight it all three times or even two, and try to make it canonical, then we run into problems.
It's suggested that Lavos is defeated in 12,000 B.C., after the destruction of Zeal, after the Black Omen is completed (gameplay completed, not construction completed). So, the intention is to defeat him at that point.
15
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Dimension Split, or Dimension Duplication
« on: August 04, 2009, 08:38:27 am »
While there is certainly nothing in the way of evidence to go either way, if we follow our established theories, then Another World would have gone to the DBT. Kid's actions in 1010 would have caused a timeline change, meaning Home World would now be the main timeline and Another World would have become defunct.
Now, the main reason I say AW had to go to the DBT is that it helps create a reasoning for why the future of AW was not destroyed while HW's was. If we say that AW is in the DBT, and the Time Devourer is in a non-timeline portion of the DBT, then the fact that you have to go to HW in order to head to the TD suggests that HW and AW are in two different locations in spacetime. Of course, this is just gameplay mechanics, but if we take it as the dev team wanted you to be in Home World for a reason in order to go after the TD, this is about the best reason.
And since you can't get to the TD from AW, a theory on that is although all defunct timelines are in the DBT that doesn't mean you can jump from one to the other. Therefore, the TD could not reach AW, and the "ruined" future cannot take place. However, since HW is able to be accessed from the DBT, the TD is free to reach out and destroy that future.
It's sort of a spin on the "Serge living causes the ruins". I have no evidence either way, but that's why it's just a theory.
And technically, any split which occurs sends one timeline to the DBT; I just suggest that dimensional weaknesses allow for the travel between the two timelines at points like Opassa Beach (where the split first occurred). And actually, Belthasar never actually says anything which would contradict AW being in the DBT (and his library is in a 3rd dimension, and you get to it from AW, so perhaps he's thought this through even more than we originally believed).
If there is something Belthasar says that negates the possiblity of AW being in the DBT, let me know. There being a split doesn't prevent it from being possible, I believe.
Now, the main reason I say AW had to go to the DBT is that it helps create a reasoning for why the future of AW was not destroyed while HW's was. If we say that AW is in the DBT, and the Time Devourer is in a non-timeline portion of the DBT, then the fact that you have to go to HW in order to head to the TD suggests that HW and AW are in two different locations in spacetime. Of course, this is just gameplay mechanics, but if we take it as the dev team wanted you to be in Home World for a reason in order to go after the TD, this is about the best reason.
And since you can't get to the TD from AW, a theory on that is although all defunct timelines are in the DBT that doesn't mean you can jump from one to the other. Therefore, the TD could not reach AW, and the "ruined" future cannot take place. However, since HW is able to be accessed from the DBT, the TD is free to reach out and destroy that future.
It's sort of a spin on the "Serge living causes the ruins". I have no evidence either way, but that's why it's just a theory.
And technically, any split which occurs sends one timeline to the DBT; I just suggest that dimensional weaknesses allow for the travel between the two timelines at points like Opassa Beach (where the split first occurred). And actually, Belthasar never actually says anything which would contradict AW being in the DBT (and his library is in a 3rd dimension, and you get to it from AW, so perhaps he's thought this through even more than we originally believed).
If there is something Belthasar says that negates the possiblity of AW being in the DBT, let me know. There being a split doesn't prevent it from being possible, I believe.