The $%*! frustration thread

[FaustWolf]

Ideally, I think, a person should be able to pursue a main paying job while engaging in art after-hours. So it doesn't have to be a sequential thing. Most indie game developers I've met in my travels aren't doing it full time, and many will continue for the sake of art even if they don't strike it big. Whichever way you choose to organize an economy, it seems a humanizing compromise: the economy gets you for a certain number of hours each day, and then the real freedom comes at night. Or day, depending on what the job is!


Damn, I wish we didn't need sleep! I know ZeaLitY's had some interesting posts on this before, but now I totally get it. Even if I'm dizzy as hell, I can still get so much more accomplished when I've completely forgone sleep than when I take a good eight hours. Sleep can be a freakin' ridiculous time waster. Obviously, if you drive, work with knives, or operate heavy machinery, please disregard my commentary on this!  

[Lord J Esq]

Too many people take no responsibility for their words, or the ideas behind them, and will go to seemingly preposterous lengths to defend positions they would not have staked out to begin with had they but simply put a bit of thought into it beforehand.

The rest of that particular frustration is not fit to write here.

[tushantin]

Well said, Josh. Although, my frustration is similar but opposite:

Too many people attack something or the other carelessly, or the ideas behind them, and will go to seemingly preposterous lengths to eradicate what troubles them. It is only when they pull the trigger in such haste that they realize their actual target was something else entirely, and what was lost could have been more beneficial.

In the end, you lose a bullet and you lose something potential, and your chance and efforts are wasted.

[Lord J Esq]

Your English is improving, tush. However, I object to your choice of the word "opposite."

[tushantin]

Your English is improving, tush. However, I object to your choice of the word "opposite."

Thanks! But I still think there's a lot more for me to learn. Language and me aren't really "good friends". Also, what could I have substituted "opposite" with?

In light of that, here's another frustration: When I first joined the Compendium, I spoke like a friggin ten-year-old. I'd blame Mary for that (she was the one who introduced me to "Internet Forums" and how to speak there -- she insisted that talking that way was charming), but then again if it wasn't for her I wouldn't even have been here at the Compendium, so I shouldn't complain.

[Lord J Esq]

I inferred that you perceived my frustration as directed at you--correctly, for what it is worth, and something you could only have done if indeed your English has improved, hence the compliment--and thus set up your own frustration in contradiction to it. But there is nothing opposing about our two frustrations, except for your stylistic choice to copy some of my phrasing and diction. I denounced a harmful and ill-considered blanket statement you made, one which, if enacted, would promote abuse and sexism, and you spent a lot of energy defending your statement without really stopping to consider the merits of my criticism--which is a characteristic problem with you--as evidenced not least by the fact that your subsequent framing of what constitutes acceptable practical joking bears little resemblance to your original statement, which was quite sweeping and indiscriminate. Ergo, my frustration.

You found my criticism overly serious, careless, insulting, and so forth. Ergo, your frustration.

They are not opposites, but quite different. As for what word I would suggest in place of "opposite," perhaps I will recommend "petulantly petty," which is really quite fun to pronounce out loud even though it is not very flattering.

I think you should be reminded, if perhaps you have forgotten our PM correspondence, that my criticisms, though they came at your expense, were not directed at you. I have generally been refraining from interacting with you, lest I succumb to petulance (and spoil other Compendiumites' enjoyment of the forum). I made those criticisms only because your comments about practical joking were unusually foolish and harmful. You don't seem to have any perspective at all as to where I am coming from when my criticisms pass in your direction, other than to assume that I am out to get you. Perhaps it would behoove you to become more contemplative when you are criticized, and not defensive. I am not out to get you.

Separately, I have been in mourning since last night, when I learned that Dippin' Dots is filing for bankruptcy. How can there be a future without the ice cream of the future? I am quite dismayed!

[Sajainta]

Reading the quote thread has made me start thinking about gender norms, and here's one that almost always gets people riled up:  shaving.  Specifically, females shaving.  I see pictures of women who choose not to shave their armpits or their legs and said pictures receive the most disgusting sexist backlash.  People are simply shocked when women don't shave, and condemn them as "gross" or "un-womanly" and throw out the ever-lovely "dyke".  Personally, I shave.  Partly because I'm used to it and partly because I've been conditioned to think that it's the "right" and "lady-like" thing to do.  And it bothers me that if I wear a skirt without shaving my legs I'll be hailed as "gross".  It's just hair.  It's just a gender norm.  Women aren't disgusting or "not real women" if they don't shave.

I'm curious how this will be received, since this site is mostly made up of men.

[FaustWolf]

Sajainta, I'll just add that if men want to shave everywhere women are expected to, it's trendy and "metrosexual," at least as far as I've understood. That makes the shaving norm even more effed up. Men can kinda do whatever they please, whereas women are pigeonholed into a very specific (and not to mention, time consuming!) behavior. Men have a real choice, whereas women could probably lose a job interview over the whole thing!

[ZeaLitY]

I envy other people whose parents didn't really care about them, who gave them free rein. I've had helicopter parents my entire life. No matter how far I go, the reach follows me.

[Sajainta]

And those people who had parents that didn't care would love to have parents that did.  I've had friends whose parents didn't care about them and let them do whatever they wanted to do.  They may have had "free rein", but they grew up feeling very unwanted and unloved.

[Lord J Esq]

Reading the quote thread has made me start thinking about gender norms, and here's one that almost always gets people riled up:  shaving.  Specifically, females shaving.  I see pictures of women who choose not to shave their armpits or their legs and said pictures receive the most disgusting sexist backlash.  People are simply shocked when women don't shave, and condemn them as "gross" or "un-womanly" and throw out the ever-lovely "dyke".  Personally, I shave.  Partly because I'm used to it and partly because I've been conditioned to think that it's the "right" and "lady-like" thing to do.  And it bothers me that if I wear a skirt without shaving my legs I'll be hailed as "gross".  It's just hair.  It's just a gender norm.  Women aren't disgusting or "not real women" if they don't shave.

I'm curious how this will be received, since this site is mostly made up of men.

I am a male, not a "man," so if you're looking for a masculine view then mine doesn't count. Otherwise...

My response is perhaps the most predictable among likely responders: People can shave or not shave whatever they want, and I resent the insinuation among many in our society that females should conform to popular standards of beauty. Like all matters of physical attractiveness, a person's hairiness is a matter for them, their partner(s), and no one else.

So perhaps more interesting would be my broader and personal thoughts on the subject...

Hairlessness has been admired or downplayed in both sexes at various times throughout history. In our time, I learned relatively early in my adulthood that it was the razor blade companies, acting about a century ago, who popularized the notion of clean-shaved females. We can thank the persistence of their successful campaign for a portion of the framing in our culture that females should shave. Where females are concerned, much like the taboo on being fat, being hairy is simply not acknowledged (except for the purpose of mockery) in our entertainment industry. Hairy females don't exist except as a joke.

I admit that it had an effect on me. Unlike my lifelong affinity for fat on a partner, I never held a strong biological orientation toward or against hair. So, having not really thought about it, I assumed that I would prefer a hairless, clean-shaved partner. That turned out not to be the case for me. It was one of those interesting moments where a single, introductory experience taught me that my preconceptions had been mistaken. Sexual activity taught me that I do prefer a hairless body overall, but that my preference is only trivial, and that when it comes to a partner's sexual hair (on the crotch and armpits) I actually prefer it to be present and unshaved. That fits in with my overall preferences, which tend to be strongly anti-neotenic. For most American males, it's the other way around. We glorify neoteny in the female form, which is to say that many of our popular beauty standards involve females looking like juveniles: no hair, no smell, no fat, no height, no assertiveness, no strength. The only exception is the popular fixation on large breasts. For me, all of this is the other way around.

As for my own body, I've always been hairier than I would prefer. I don't mind the sexual hair on me, either, but I'm pretty hirsute overall and I don't like it. It makes me hotter, increases the work of maintaining good hygiene, and isn't aesthetically pleasing. (After all, males in popular culture are usually hairless too.) The kick in the teeth is that I'm getting my very own thin spot on the top of my head. The one place on my body that isn't growing hair profligately is the one part of my body where I most enjoy being hairy! =(

Those are my thoughts.

[Lord J Esq]

ZeaLitY, have a heart-to-heart conversation with them and give them a reasonable ultimatum. If they don't grant you the rein you want, cut them off. I've been over this too many times to see such a tragedy repeated. Cut them off. Get on with your life. They will either respect your choices or they will not. You're not responsible for their lives. You don't owe them anything anymore if they are not willing to make an honest effort to respect your most important wishes.

[tushantin]

I inferred that you perceived my frustration as directed at you

To be honest, I didn't consider that statement of yours to be directed against me. If it was, should I be offended?

I had an argument with a person in my area. He liked jumping the gun for no apparent reason. I warned him, he didn't listen. But when he somehow hurt those people close to him and screamed, "OH SHIT!" Well yeah, you have every right to be mad at the world, but if you want to change something then find the right target rather than blindly firing at will.

The reason I followed up with a contradicting frustration was because there was intersecting "link" between your "defending" theme and my "attacking" one.  And it's hardly a blanket statement. But please tell me how it would "promote" abuse and sexism.

and you spent a lot of energy defending your statement without really stopping to consider the merits of my criticism

Oh, I did consider your criticism, but I also noticed that your statements had similar currency as fear of respectful flirting in social environs. How am I supposed to listen to a man who can't differentiate between "abuse" and "flirting", or between "playfulness" and "disruptiveness", or even "praise" and "flattery"? How am I to listen to someone who doesn't even know me and is yet quick to judge me discriminatively? Also, knowing you, when it comes to arguments one ought to prepare to defend his views, because I don't think you're the kind to pool empathetic opinions with substantial justification and/or guide people; you seem more like the "bossy" kind, who likes to win any and every argument. If it was anybody else, I either would have had a hearty conversation with them or may have backed out entirely, but that's not the case with you -- with you, it's always a battle. So why shouldn't I try to defend my statement from someone who knows nearly nothing about me or my cultural heritage? Why shouldn't I speak for myself against a xenophobic person who thinks he knows what's the right way?

You found my criticism overly serious, careless, insulting, and so forth. Ergo, your frustration.

I won't repeat myself. Read my first two passages in this post.

I made those criticisms only because your comments about practical joking were unusually foolish and harmful

I take it you aren't good at socializing with every kind of person? I realize I was born brain-handicapped and yet tried my best to come to the level of a "normal person", but seriously, Josh. I didn't expect that of you.

You don't seem to have any perspective at all as to where I am coming from when my criticisms pass in your direction, other than to assume that I am out to get you. Perhaps it would behoove you to become more contemplative when you are criticized

Ah, pretend contemplative is something I just don't do. Then again "pretend anything" is just not my style. Even when I do indulge in prolonged thought I rarely tell people about it, and I certainly won't fib by saying, "I'll think about it" when I know that I won't due to circumstances. No, I try to achieve absolute honesty here, and I want nothing else.

As for perspective, I could "guess" where you're coming from (hence my earlier rant about "shortcomings of civility"). Anyway, I'd like to know your story (note: Story, not "Bossy Statements"). Do tell: where do you come from? I'm all ears. It would help establish some form of communication.

[tushantin]

@Saj: I might be the "manly" bloke who's perspective you might like, but I'm certainly not the best of men around. But being a romantic bugger, I actually feel your pain there.

Both J and FW are right, though, that "shaving" is usually a metro-sexual phenomenon. I like keeping a stubble, because I think it's "sexy", but I also have alopecia on my beard (a bald spot) which makes me "gross". Now, I've only met people asking me about it out of goodwill, because I live in a civilized place where "public rudeness" is frowned upon, but even though many don't say much about it with me and are ready to accept me as I am, I do find that in human nature there's always a perception that alopecia isn't considered beautiful. So I shave. I constantly, obsessively shave. Once, however, I forgot when I had gone to a job interview. Was rejected simply because of my alopecia.

As for females, yes, no matter how dark or hairy/hairless they are, in Pune they're all still welcome (unless some uncultured bugger wants to make fun of someone in public). One of my friends is extremely dark and has bad skin, which is much less beautiful compared to hairy ones, but she's still respected as much as anyone else. We never judge people by how they look (well, subconsciously we all do, but never say it or act upon it), because the majority of our population cannot afford cosmetics. Unless you have money, of course, and belong to a High Class family, where you need to spend time trying to look your best even if it means plastic surgery, whether you're male of female.

[Katie Skyye]

Hmm, a girly perspective is needed, I think...though of course these are just my opinions/experiences!

I got teased a lot when I was younger because I have really dark hair, so my leg hair stood out a lot more, so I started shaving my legs, and now if I stop, my legs start itching from the stubble. XD
...and armpit hair just itches if I don't shave so of course that has to go. And to be honest I really don't like armpit hair on anyone, guys or girls, so...

But to be honest,
I really don't pay any attention to the legs, so I likely wouldn't notice if they didn't shave.

It makes me hotter, increases the work of maintaining good hygiene...

That's another reason.

On guys, well, hmm. Having a lot of body hair kind of intimidates me. Stubble is okay...I'm not really a fan of full-blown beards. Red's beard is really funny because it grows really quickly at first (to about 1/4 an inch), and then just gets thicker without getting longer. And he's one of the few people in my class who could actually pull off a full beard if he wanted to, since most people just have scraggly uneven or thin beards. Though he doesn't want an actual beard either. XD

If I don't stop now, I'm just gonna go off on a tangent about how cool Red is, so I'mma stop now.