Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 482535 times)

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2595 on: April 11, 2009, 03:03:44 pm »
Five bucks says you'll bitch til the end of time.  Ho ho!

(just kidding)

ZeaLitY

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2596 on: April 11, 2009, 09:19:51 pm »
Shouting match with my father while home this weekend because I radically believe that yeah, a glass ceiling against women still exists, and that women shouldn't be forced to endure painful periods every month or the rigors of pregnancy if it's not their choice just because they were born female. Seems this makes me a radical.

I've stopped asking, "Why was I born into a world as this?" I know now. I'm here to effect changes.

teaflower

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2597 on: April 11, 2009, 09:31:06 pm »
Think of it this way, Z. It's either the women do it, the men do it, we both do it, or we don't do it at all. Although humans are overpopulated, we're organisms and we have to reproduce somehow. And unfortunately, women are stuck with chunks of baby pillow falling out their sex hole monthly. We aren't forced to do it. We have evolved to do what we do.

Sometimes it's actually kind of fun. It makes guys leave you alone more. Then again, if you don't take care of it right... it kind of stinks. Literally... and it hurts.

So... I kind of downloaded a pirated copy of Japanese software... at this point, I'm kind of cool with it. I wish I could read it, though. But I can use it. Now, if only it would understand WAI.

ZeaLitY

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2598 on: April 11, 2009, 09:36:29 pm »
Not true. I'm sure I'll get accused of mad, unethical science here, but pregnancies could be engineered outside the body. And there are gestational surrogates even today, although religion and outmoded thinking have made them difficult to come by illegal in many places.

teaflower

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2599 on: April 11, 2009, 09:49:31 pm »
Engineering it outside the body is possible, but not right now. We don't have the technology, or the money, or the means. And even if we had those things to do research on it, it would take a while before people started using it. And even longer for people who need to do it and people who are poor can do it. This sort of thing will be for rich people who don't want to have a baby inside them.

Here's another point against this, though. Pregnancy within the mother (or father) is good for the child. It bonds the child with the parent and then makes it less likely for the parent to eat it. And even if we found a way around that, there's the issue of breast feeding. That bonds the child even more to the parent and vice versa. In the latter stages of pregnancy, all sorts of hormones rush through the woman's body, causing her boobs to start milking. By not going through pregnancy, a woman doesn't do that. Even if we found a way around that, why would a woman who has her child born in a laboratory and not from her want to have the kid suck on her boobs? That hurts, too!

Again, even though we could do it outside the body, women would still go through it. We kind of need to have those eggs in us, and we kind of have to discharge them to make babies happen in a lab. And that kind of makes our uteri swell up with blood to feed the baby. And when there's no baby... ha. Again, if we stopped that, we would not be women anymore, really. We would be a thing. We don't need most of our womanly parts, and ultimately guys won't need them either. Humans will simply be... things. No male, no female. We will become asexual creatures, better off dividing than meeting with another member of our species.

... good for basement dwellers.

ZeaLitY

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2600 on: April 11, 2009, 10:00:48 pm »
Engineering it outside the body is possible, but not right now. We don't have the technology, or the money, or the means. And even if we had those things to do research on it, it would take a while before people started using it. And even longer for people who need to do it and people who are poor can do it. This sort of thing will be for rich people who don't want to have a baby inside them.

...Yes, that's why we need to make it possible. And it's not going to happen if people don't fight for sex equality.

Quote
Here's another point against this, though. Pregnancy within the mother (or father) is good for the child. It bonds the child with the parent and then makes it less likely for the parent to eat it.

Those stimuli can be emulated.

Quote
And even if we found a way around that, there's the issue of breast feeding. That bonds the child even more to the parent and vice versa. In the latter stages of pregnancy, all sorts of hormones rush through the woman's body, causing her boobs to start milking. By not going through pregnancy, a woman doesn't do that. Even if we found a way around that, why would a woman who has her child born in a laboratory and not from her want to have the kid suck on her boobs? That hurts, too!

This can also be induced by science or even physical stimulation. Midwives were retained for this reason throughout human history.

Quote
Again, even though we could do it outside the body, women would still go through it. We kind of need to have those eggs in us, and we kind of have to discharge them to make babies happen in a lab. And that kind of makes our uteri swell up with blood to feed the baby. And when there's no baby... ha. Again, if we stopped that, we would not be women anymore, really. We would be a thing. We don't need most of our womanly parts, and ultimately guys won't need them either. Humans will simply be... things. No male, no female. We will become asexual creatures, better off dividing than meeting with another member of our species.

Fertilization of the egg needn't happen within the body, either. And transhumanism is coming whether anyone likes it or not. Science is going to allow us to enhance both our bodies and our brains, and sooner or later, we are going to have to take responsibility for self-directed evolution. Whether we explore the galaxy or ourselves with our newfound powers is all up to us, but there's no use in clinging to useless parts of the human condition out of some idea of religious sanctity or because of fear of being inferior to the next, improved generation or post-humans. If we only did what was "natural", we'd all still have life expectancies of 40. It's not natural to clean our teeth, cut ourselves open in surgery, or administer high-tech antibiotics and vaccines. But humanity is better for it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 10:05:59 pm by ZeaLitY »

Uboa

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2601 on: April 11, 2009, 10:49:23 pm »
 :shock:

Umm...  I thought gender equality would entail something more along the lines of understanding the needs of women who want to have a baby.

ZeaLitY

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2602 on: April 11, 2009, 11:02:38 pm »
I understand the plight of the victims of Darfur, but the genocide is still happening. Pain is pain, and inequality is inequality. Knowing is half the battle, but only half.

Delta Dragon

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2603 on: April 11, 2009, 11:18:21 pm »
.....That was....Quite a conversation. 

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2604 on: April 11, 2009, 11:38:07 pm »
Not true. I'm sure I'll get accused of mad, unethical science here, but pregnancies could be engineered outside the body. And there are gestational surrogates even today, although religion and outmoded thinking have made them difficult to come by illegal in many places.



Read A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. Lots of detail in how they cultivate the human fetus. I know it's science fiction but it's still really neat.

The only problem with doing so is something they're already doing. Baby customization. Want a boy or a girl? How bout hair color? Eye color?

Before you know it, you're Hitler.

I'm not against the idea of advancing genetic science, but it could go too far.

Asafigow

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2605 on: April 11, 2009, 11:48:41 pm »
Wait. Didn't this start with Tea and Zeality fighting about how much it sucks for a woman to have her period? Now it's about how genetics are going to do all this crazy stuff to the next generation? What screwed up world do we live in?  :| All I know is that women either have several periods and maybe a baby or two in there life span, or we're ALL screwed to kingdomkum. Plus, all this genetics stuff is going too far. I mean come on, baby custimization? Why not just let it come out natrally instead of having the chance of screwing the baby up during the process. Man, and I thought us humans had only adapted to want to destroy each other.

Zephira

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2606 on: April 11, 2009, 11:54:02 pm »
What is wrong with choosing what hair or eye colour you want your child to have? It's not the government creating all babies uniform, it's the parent making the decision. What, are people afraid that the child will not like his hair or eye colour and get mad at the parent for choosing it?
I wish that technology were around before I was born. It'd be great if I could have been born with naturally purple hair, or two different eye colours.

Random moment of stupidity: I went to the mall with my mom, step-brother and his girlfriend. They were all taking forever to buy clothes. There just so happened to be a Claire's shop on the level above us and figured it would be pretty cool to get a second ear piercing. So I did. Ow.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2607 on: April 12, 2009, 12:00:41 am »
I want to quit my job but I put a down payment on my next tattoo so I can't quit yet or I lose the fifty bucks.

Come on, May 12th!

nightmare975

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2608 on: April 12, 2009, 12:09:33 am »
I actually can't wait for science to reach the point of genetic modification, not because I could create a super-kid, but so I could prevent my genetic defect from spreading to any children I may have.

Asafigow

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #2609 on: April 12, 2009, 12:17:15 am »
Admittingly, you have a point Zeph, it's not bad. But it's not 'natural' if your changing it to something else. Plus, doing something like that while the baby's still in the womb could seriously screw something up. And I agree with Nightmare about not passing STDs on to new borns. If we're going to do something to unborn babies, it might as well be something useful like not passing on diseases.