Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 484422 times)

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6285 on: November 02, 2011, 10:37:08 pm »
If you treat waitstaff poorly or don't tip well, fuck you. Burn in hell forever. You are less than human.

I'm about to become an incredibly militant son of a fucking bitch if I keep happening to go out to eat with people who aren't nice, or don't tip well. I always fucking fix the situation by adjusting the tip up to 20% or being nice, but it gets fucking tiring. Fuck you, you who embrace this capitalistic separation of server and served. There is no male, female, waiter, or guest. There is human. And you forfeit your humanity when you're a piece of shit to someone "lower" than you. You deserve everything you fucking get. And I will never, ever forgive you, or forget your brutally ignorant acts.

Furthermore, fuck the service industry and what it's becoming. A friend in Europe went to a McDonald's the other day and ordered a small cake. The girl at the counter began putting chocolate on it. My friend said it wasn't necessary, and the girl said "I have to put it on; there are cameras watching," and further explained that the store had a manager alarm in case it detected an absence of movement associated with normal worker duties.

God forbid the live human you have minding your store leans against a wall for a second or has a break. Such antiquated notions like that are the residue of socialism. Don't these poor employees know that to get ahead in a capitalistic society, it's kill or be killed?

Fuck the people criticizing the Occupy movements. May they grow in number and foment significant change, and steamroll the fuckers in their way. And a huge fuck you to the Oakland PD.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:45:16 pm by ZeaLitY »

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6286 on: November 03, 2011, 01:01:22 am »
You stole the words right out of my mouth.

If you treat waitstaff poorly or don't tip well, fuck you. Burn in hell forever. You are less than human.
Yeah, I've heard about waitstaffs in America. Apparently, unlike the east here, if you don't tip them well enough you won't be welcome properly or something next time. But I think, from what I've heard, the problem arises mostly from the waiters being paid less than than necessary (minimum wage, I think they call it) and thus they are required to make more from their "hospitality service" and gather tips. The low salary inevitably keeps the prices of food down to attract customers, but they pay the amount in tip anyway. While this attitude "in theory" promotes the waiters' good attitude towards the customers, in practice it's got horrible side-effects.

In India, eating out is already costly, and we don't even need to tip the waiters.

I suppose the Capitalist effect has become so obsessive that they potentially destroy what it means to be "human". Men aren't machines, dammit!

Radical_Dreamer

  • Entity
  • Zurvan Surfer (+2500)
  • *
  • Posts: 2778
    • View Profile
    • The Chrono Compendium
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6287 on: November 03, 2011, 01:15:49 am »
In a number of states, there is a lower minimum wage for tip earning positions. In Washington, management is required to make up the difference if tips are not enough to bring up the total wage to the normal minimum wage, but if tips can cover the difference, they're off the hook.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6288 on: November 03, 2011, 01:18:20 am »
If you treat waitstaff poorly or don't tip well, fuck you. Burn in hell forever. You are less than human.

I'm about to become an incredibly militant son of a fucking bitch if I keep happening to go out to eat with people who aren't nice, or don't tip well. I always fucking fix the situation by adjusting the tip up to 20% or being nice, but it gets fucking tiring. Fuck you, you who embrace this capitalistic separation of server and served. There is no male, female, waiter, or guest. There is human. And you forfeit your humanity when you're a piece of shit to someone "lower" than you. You deserve everything you fucking get. And I will never, ever forgive you, or forget your brutally ignorant acts.

I don't know about "burn in hell forever" and "less than human," but I've been mortified for years by the way some people conduct themselves in front of clerks, cashiers, and servers. The oblivious malice is absolutely astonishing. I often suspect that these people have unhappy lives and take it out on others because they can't help themselves or don't know any better way. It's even worse when I see them doing it to their (still bright-eyed) kids.

My friend said it wasn't necessary, and the girl said "I have to put it on; there are cameras watching," and further explained that the store had a manager alarm in case it detected an absence of movement associated with normal worker duties.

Astonishing. That ought to be illegal. I read a story in the LA Times recently about Disney using electronic performance boards to pit its hotel workers against each other for efficiency. That ought to be illegal too. Tracking performance and firing slackoffs is one thing, but dehumanizing your workforce in the name of flawlessness and homogeneity is completely unethical.

Don't these poor employees know that to get ahead in a capitalistic society, it's kill or be killed?

It's not capitalism. Capitalism is a good economic model (perhaps the best available) for most industry sectors. What's missing is, legally, better government regulation, and, culturally, a sense of corporate responsibility.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6289 on: November 03, 2011, 02:16:10 am »
It's not capitalism. Capitalism is a good economic model (perhaps the best available) for most industry sectors. What's missing is, legally, better government regulation, and, culturally, a sense of corporate responsibility.

In essence, isn't that saying that it's a good model as far as its potentials for heinous abuse can be checked? Though I guess that reduces to any model, since ultimately human nature is what must be kept in check.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6290 on: November 03, 2011, 04:16:14 am »
It's not capitalism. Capitalism is a good economic model (perhaps the best available) for most industry sectors. What's missing is, legally, better government regulation, and, culturally, a sense of corporate responsibility.

In essence, isn't that saying that it's a good model as far as its potentials for heinous abuse can be checked? Though I guess that reduces to any model, since ultimately human nature is what must be kept in check.

"Capitalism" is a system whereby people can go into business for themselves, i.e., develop a product or service, own the means of production, and earn profits on the revenue. That premise spurs economic development and ultimately a better way of life. We owe life as we know it to the capitalist model.

Today our economy is being strangled by parasitic large corporations that enrich themselves without adding equal or greater value to the economy, and by a short-term-profits obsession among financiers and investors that comes at the expense of long-term fiscal sustainability...and not by the fact that I can open a restaurant and sell ice cream. These problems are mainly the result of abuses within the capitalist system, rather than structural flaws inherent to the system. As I have indicated before, a capitalist economy must be well regulated to prevent these and other abuses, but that regulation is still subservient to the capitalist paradigm--it still accepts the basic premise of private enterprise.

I suspect the word has become so general that it causes obfuscation when used in communication.

A minority of our problems actually are the result of capitalism itself. They are not structural flaws, but jurisdictional ones. Strict capitalists must apply the capitalist paradigm to all economic activities. That's a logical fallacy because the essential value of some economic activities does not correspond to those activities' direct profitability. One such example is the education of children. Educational facilities can be made profitable, but their essential value, by which I mean the primary benefit of their existence, has nothing to do with their profitability. A strictly capitalistic view of the educational system could only endorse the premise of money-losing schools in the wider context of education as an investment in labor. Not coincidentally, that is why the modern school system took form in the first place. Industrialists desired a better-trained workforce, and community leaders desired a more competitive public. The capitalist view hits several limiting dicta, however, which amount to a lack of accessibility to a better-rounded education on economic grounds. In effect, capitalism promotes only training, and not true education. That's a brick wall on the road to a better society. Therefore, due to the essential value of education, the educational sector should be public, not private. It should be planned, not market-driven.

To put it simply, I am a capitalist wherever profits do correspond to the essential value of economic activities, and a socialist wherever they do not. In functional terms I support a mixed economy. I uphold the tenets of private ownership, free enterprise in general, and wealth accumulation, all within the context of a robust system of regulation to preserve competition, protect consumers, steward the environment, and penalize abuse. That's capitalism, but the opposite of laissez-faire. Meanwhile, whenever the capitalist model fails to correspond to the needs of an improving society, I favor the socialist model of serving the public welfare specifically rather than the public's economic proxy, profits. Besides education, other sectors which capitalism cannot maturely address include (but are not limited to) healthcare, utilities, transportation, defense, and energy.

It is important to understand that capitalism does not own a monopoly on innovation. Many crucial technological advances are made possible by the public dole, because private companies will not spend money on their research after determining that the costs of research or the subsequent market potential of any likely applications were "a losing proposition." I gather that most people in our country do not understand how innovation can occur without somebody hoping to make big money from it. The reality is that those areas of the economy where I would apply the socialist model have just as much room for innovation. Many avenues of research and development readily suggest themselves. Many more avenues can be discerned with effort. These avenues suggest jobs, and those jobs will almost always be filled if they offer a decent wage. To wit, though the free market would not develop a system of universal education for children, government certainly does. Innovation within the public education system is limited primarily by the availability of taxpayer funding and secondarily by the demands imposed by law and more pertinently by the educational authorities in local, state, and federal government.

I defer to capitalism where capitalism benefits society because capitalism is so efficient. Socialism is not as efficient, in my understanding because it is not as agile, and that extra cost of relative inefficiency is only warranted when the public welfare is at stake. I don't want the government to own the video game industry. That statement, however, reflects the bias of our society against public ownership. In reality, such a statement is nonsensical. It's inverse is what is actually true: I want to be able to own my own video game company, make whatever games I want, and profit from it. "The government" wouldn't necessarily stop me from making whatever games I want, or even from profiting from them, to the extent I might earn a share of any profit that does accrue. However, if the government owned the video game industry, then I would not be able to own my own company, and I would have that much less control over my creative efforts.

It gets really interesting when we get back to the question of education and propose concepts like "Josh's Academy of Critical Thinking for Unfettered Personal Success in Humanism, Intelligence, and Talent" (JACTUPSHIT). Such an endeavor would concern itself directly with the public welfare, and whether or not I might like to own it myself and become stinking rich, I would have to content myself simply with running it. I find the premise of a public JACTUPSHIT to be eminently tolerable, provided the government would cooperate with me in a sane and consistent fashion. (In fairness, the agents of private capital are often as irrational in their demands as those who appropriate public financing.)

Economic aces--and, bluntly, maybe even a few economic deuces--might be able to spot some weaknesses and even a few outright errors in the above formulations. I welcome any such criticism in the Armchair Economists thread. I cannot be as assertive as usual because my total grasp of the underlying theory is not as thorough as it usually is when I take stances on issues.

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6291 on: November 03, 2011, 07:05:51 am »
Today our economy is being strangled by parasitic large corporations that enrich themselves without adding equal or greater value to the economy, and by a short-term-profits obsession among financiers and investors that comes at the expense of long-term fiscal sustainability...and not by the fact that I can open a restaurant and sell ice cream. These problems are mainly the result of abuses within the capitalist system, rather than structural flaws inherent to the system. As I have indicated before, a capitalist economy must be well regulated to prevent these and other abuses, but that regulation is still subservient to the capitalist paradigm--it still accepts the basic premise of private enterprise.
In other words, it's a filthy piece of shit!

I'm sorry, Josh. I wanted to agree with you there, but I've come to despise Capitalism in entirety. Yes, you're right, this isn't the way I normally think and shouldn't even be thinking this way, and no, my anger isn't directed towards you (I'm pretty sure you've put plenty of thought and sincerity into what you wrote), but towards Capitalism itself. The reason for my temporary wrath is because I came from a seminar representing my Cyber Cafe for business purposes, and riding a bicycle 6 and half miles times two and protecting myself from being brainwashed by an incredibly competent businessman has worn me off.

I'm not surprised that I'm the only one who's upset about all this while everyone else in the room saw it as an opportunity to invest upon the new service; the only reason I'm immune to such levels of psychological persuasions and force is because I have a sociopathic wavelength of thought, and I managed to see the cultural impact of this new "nation wide" project. The horrors came when I was done with my analysis, but I maintained my trademark pokerface and made an excellent impression for the welfare of my boss.

Mark my words: in a few years of time, if this project indeed becomes successful, not only will the level of requirement drastically increase but it will create and everlasting rift between capital classes, a damage nearly unfix-able. And while this project claims to help individuals secure their future, what it's indirectly doing instead is fortifying the problems already existing, rendering them irreparable.

Sigh. I was having a great day today. Thought I might achieve something extraordinary today. Well, I managed to get my boss an opportunity, but I refuse to compromise my values for the sake of my own personal development. It's easy to be rich, but it's difficult to do so ethically; but I will die rather than disrespect my own honor, my code. Thought I'd rant in full-fledge, but I better ration my words. A short, well-structured rant coming soon when I blow off some steam.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6292 on: November 04, 2011, 03:55:09 am »
Then in the case where free private enterprise is causing tragedies of the commons and may threaten human extinction, the government (or Starfleet, as I might put it) should be empowered to directly intervene and "guide" enterprise to more humanistic endeavors, right? (Such a state would also have to be sufficiently centralized and involved in the market as to keep tabs on enterprises.) If everyone wished to own a video game company, it would then threaten the existence of humanity, as other critical sectors would be neglected, right?

I think about this with the logistics industry all the time. Right now, countless people are mailing, Ebaying, Craigslisting, etc. tons of shit to each other. To do so costs incredible resources, natural and human. And as time wears on, these tons of shit will be rearranged again and again, as new collectors come to exist and old ones fade. I feel like there must be incredible waste in this system. And if I were Imperator of the state, and had statistics that this activity was significantly damaging humanity's potential for survival or the environment, I might be inclined to deeply regulate it or centralize the market. Ditto if everyone wished to be an actor or game designer. Someone has to be the garbageman. This ethical concern is always in the back of my mind.

It's reminded me that I don't really buy into the "pursuit of happiness" as a paradigm for structuring society. Some would argue that the Western definition of happiness is a sick psychological trick, anyhow. I feel for the optimum human state to exist, humanism itself must be the perfect prism through which everything is focused. That would include the humanities, of course. But in a world as threatened as this, in the beginning, it would primarily consist of redirecting efforts to improving society and working out the frailties, whether eliminating poverty or constructing a defense system against errant asteroids. Only then, with the human continuum assured, could the other pursuits be allowed to freely proliferate.

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6293 on: November 04, 2011, 10:56:50 am »
So...the government should be allowed to tell people what career you should have?

Even if that is what you're arguing, capitalism does that already. Not everyone does become a self-sustaining actor or video game designer. It takes people with an enormous amount of skill, intellect and dedication, and the ones that don't have that will be weeded out over the course of their employment. Those people eventually become the garbagemen, or what have you, as the need for a practical job begins to outweigh their dream job(if it is even that, rather than a flight of fancy).

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6294 on: November 04, 2011, 04:59:00 pm »
Agreed except for the problem of psychology. This Western definition of happiness depends on "doing what makes you happy", and it's expressly impossible for everyone to do that. But the illusion of that is deeply ingrained in our society (and also keeps the advice industry afloat).

Part of it for me is feeling as if I want to invest in humanity. I have no idea if being an accountant, actuary, writer, or translator will speed humanity along in some way. Being a scientist and curing cancer would of course, but outside science, it gets so nebulous for me. I could more easily stand to work in jobs that aren't my passion if I knew that they were part of the grand endeavor or really contributing to earth (as opposed to, say, working for Ebay and just helping to move useless collectible shit around). Oh, I could always go off and do what I want, and try to be successful at it, but my ethical conscience demands I at least know whether or not I'm doing something for the common weal.

Even non-profits, like the Peace Corps. or charities, have very questionable efficacy. Many just apply a salve to a broken system that enables the system to keep hobbling along, whereas allowing the problems to continue might finally spark a rebellion or some kind of serious change. Feeding the hungry in some African nations might just keep the situation going, whereas complete starvation may prompt armed struggle or reform. Medical non-profit research is the same. While there is a correlation between the scope of a medical problem and the amount of its funding, the direction of research towards solving human disease should not be determined in part by the skill of one's marketing department. An enlightened government should triage human afflictions and direct research accordingly to bring about the most efficacy.

Of course, a system that could keep track of everything and direct things towards a single humanistic focus would probably be so deeply totalitarian as to be impossible with humanity as it is.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 05:00:36 pm by ZeaLitY »

tushantin

  • CC:DBT Dream Team
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5645
  • Under Your Moonlight, Stealing Your Stars
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6295 on: November 04, 2011, 05:08:40 pm »
It doesn't have to be totalitarian, Z. Although I do sense a bit of Cynicism in your voice.

Tell you what. Write down a list of "problems and goals" in which way you'd like to help the society. Sometimes those goals are abstract and need to be refined or looked at from another angle to find a way to achieve them. We'll discuss "how" when you're finished, and I think I'd like to write my humanitarian goals down too. You could use the earlier "how I'd change the world" thread.

How about a Compendium-wide brainstorming?  :D

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6296 on: November 04, 2011, 05:31:24 pm »
@Z: The answer to your quandary is more obvious than you seem to think. What are the things that inspired you to become a better person? Those things won't be uniquely yours; the same things, in various ways, inspire many.

You run a website dedicated to a video game series. The answer is right here at home.

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6297 on: November 04, 2011, 05:43:06 pm »
Hmm. Interesting points, all.

Speaking of happiness, I stumbledupon this this morning.

http://photomis.com/the-executive-coloring-book/

It made me think about the "happiness" you brought up, as well as most people's attachment to money and material things.

FaustWolf

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8972
  • Fan Power Advocate
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6298 on: November 04, 2011, 06:19:39 pm »
Quote from: Truthordeal
Even if that is what you're arguing, capitalism does that already. Not everyone does become a self-sustaining actor or video game designer. It takes people with an enormous amount of skill, intellect and dedication, and the ones that don't have that will be weeded out over the course of their employment. Those people eventually become the garbagemen, or what have you, as the need for a practical job begins to outweigh their dream job (if it is even that, rather than a flight of fancy).
I'm sure you didn't mean it this way Truth, but it's dangerous to take a person's status as a garbage collector, wait staff, store clerk, or burger flipper as evidence of that person's intrinsic level of skill, intellect, or dedication. Downright luck plays a huge role. Maybe the right millionaire with an idea just didn't pass through a great starving artist's Deviant Art page; maybe the hardest freakin' worker on earth was born into a family too poor to support them if they took an unpaid internship. Maybe that garbage collector down the street could have been the next Richard Branson if they didn't pass up an opportunity so they could care for a sick family member instead. I don't believe these situations are as rare as we like to think.

Moreover, in today's economy, with its super niche specialization, just getting matched to anything other than a "practical" job is becoming about as rare as striking it rich in the humanities. It sure feels that way -- I can only suspect this frustration is what unites and fuels the Occupy movement.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 06:28:42 pm by FaustWolf »

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #6299 on: November 04, 2011, 07:53:03 pm »
I picked the word "garbageman" to use because Zeality explicitly mentioned them in his post. I also felt it worked with the point I was making: being a garbageman is a very practical job that you can sustain yourself on; it's just that no one dreams of becoming one.

My point wasn't really much different from yours, FW; I just didn't include the "luck" factor, mostly because people tend to make their own luck through effort. Plus I really didn't want to push that particular point because I remember Zeality ranting about it at one point.

Here's another point: Why can't the garbageman go on to get his dream job? Several of the all time "great" artists were garbagemen(not literally) at some point. Most of them understood the practicality of getting a "real" job before they could flourish in their art. It only follows that once you get a solid foundation and money flow, you can do more than you would being a starving artist. And as popular as the image of the "starving artist" seems to be, it hasn't been a sustainable occupation for generations(I realize how stupid that sounded, but bear with me please). The whole patronage system that Shakespeare grew up in hasn't existed for a while, and it's not like 1700's England where you could write a novel then pay the bills on it. The entire artist scene has closed a bit outside of the new media. And for good reason: the nation isn't saturated with utter crap(outside of post-modernism, that is) and within the New Media, things have opened up. How many webcomic artists and bloggers have been able to support themselves just on their writing? And most of them started with day jobs. There's too much of this anti-white collar impulse nowadays, and that was the case even before the job market when shit on everyone. There's absolutely no reason why people have to suffer for their art. And I hate it when people who take care of finances before art are called "sell-outs."

Honestly, there are times when I envy the garbageman. While I, being the scholar, am cramped in a classroom or my room most the time studying, gaining massive gobs of debt and not being able to work full-time, he's outside most days, working, getting paid, and doing a job that people are thankful for, even if they don't appreciate it all the time. It's only because I'm passionate about what I'm doing that I keep on, and if I have to be a garbageman at some point down the line I'll do it and make sure I can pursue my dream.

Now obviously these last bits weren't directed solely at you, FW, or even to the many starving artists here at the Compendium. These are "artistic" attitudes I've been disgruntled with for a while up here at Collegeville State. People seem to have the idea that being practical is being a "sell-out" and that frustrates me.