Author Topic: Fuck Sexism  (Read 98860 times)

Thought

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #345 on: July 18, 2009, 01:25:26 pm »
Lord J has my intent: by sex-specific names I was thinking along the lines of Susan or Bob. I was wondering about it because of the discussion on Unisex bathrooms. Perhaps I should have asked if Unisex names would be a reduction in sexism.

Certainly, it might be nice for transgendered people if they didn't have to change their name to fit their desired gender... though I suppose changing names might still have a symbolic value.

Uboa

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #346 on: July 18, 2009, 05:32:50 pm »
As people alter their bodies and identities more regularly, I think that it's likely that a variety of accepted unisex names will emerge.  As a whole, though, I don't see how we would widely benefit from intentionally moving our entire culture in the direction of "unisexuality".  (Unisexuality is actually a biological term, but I don't know that it has any kind of cultural significance...)  I understand that we're just talking about names for now, but I guess I'm just not comfortable with any idea of merging of the sexes, rather than instilling the knowledge in individuals to understand and respect their own gender, to respect themselves as individuals of that gender, and to respect and understand other genders. (Plural genders to include transsexuals.)

If it happens on its own -- if we have another decade like the 80's in which wider shifts of gender identities become the norm -- I do think that would be beneficial in reducing the prevalence of sexism, in the same way that anything which breaks down barriers of understanding between the sexes would be.  Hopefully it'd bring people that much closer to understanding that we're all human (I think?), but each person's wiring is just a little different, and whatever sex you happen to be just has that much more of an impact on your wiring. 

(I have this working philosophy that every human is composed of these different identities -- the human identity, a gender identity, a kind of "life path" or experiential identity, maybe a cultural identity, and others...)

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #347 on: July 18, 2009, 09:36:16 pm »
Thought, you ask a very complicated question!

First, we can say without controversy that sex-specific names, like sex-specific anything, are by definition sexist unless they serve to indicate some sex-specific condition. Second, we can say that the answer to the question "How important to a person's overall identity is their sex?" is one that will vary at the individual level--and a question which unfortunately cannot be answered until long after the individual has their name. Third, we can acknowledge hopefully with unanimity that some naming conventions are structurally sexist because they routinely flow from male to female, establishing a greater weight on the former: most notable are diminutive names and married names. Fourth, we can identify (perhaps not without disagreement) the sexist tendencies of other naming conventions: for instance, naming females after virtues or flowers or seasons or states, which is sexist not because of the content but because of the selectivity, the connotations, and the ensuing exclusivity.

We could talk through all of that, but I think if you're looking for a yes-or-no answer as to whether sex-specific names are sexist, look no further than the fact that names are rarely chosen by adult individuals who are looking to express themselves. By giving a person a sex-specific name, that person is consigned to having their sex be prominent in their name. I do think that is sexist.

Uboa

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #348 on: July 18, 2009, 10:14:37 pm »
By giving a person a sex-specific name, that person is consigned to having their sex be prominent in their name. I do think that is sexist.

"What's in a name?"  

Names are indicative of a lot of things.  Culture, ideals of the parents, ancestry...  I don't think that gender-specific naming is any more of a hindrance than any of those might be.  If it's too much of a problem a person can change their name.

I suppose moving in a direction of genderless names might be beneficial in a number of ways, though.  For one, the good genderless names I've heard are reflective of our collective heritage and ideals, and of the natural world.  (Justice, Raven, Shale, Yarrow, etc.  Then there's Moon Unit... Love Zappa, but I wouldn't want that name!)  I'd rather people move towards a more collective heritage than staying in their regional niches, and names would be a good way to start.

Naming culture is interesting.  Today, most people keep the names they've been given at birth for their entire lives.  I think more than anything this is a matter of convenience given the almost unthinkable number of records on any given person.  But, in various tribal cultures re-naming ceremonies are the norm at important occasions in a person's life.  I suppose I wouldn't want my "tribe" necessarily designating my new name based on their perceptions of me, and I doubt that would be a better system for today's world where each individual has so much information regarding themselves and the world to process.  Heh, I doubt similar name changes based on personal choices would fare much better.  I know I've shifted identities many, many times throughout my late teens and early 20's, and if I had changed real names as many times as I'd changed screen names based on my perceptions of what was important at the time, heaven help my doctor, dentist, and the IRS.

Edit:  I just started wondering if that quote was really the best to use in this situation since their names actually do erf things up just a tad.  I meant to convey spirit of the phrase, i.e. "it shouldn't matter".
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 10:43:52 pm by Uboa »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #349 on: July 19, 2009, 02:57:50 pm »
Even if you don't legally change your name, you can introduce yourself as whatever you like, and people will generally abide it. Even if it is something a little out of the ordinary.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #350 on: July 19, 2009, 11:52:15 pm »
You mean like Xamoltan J. Awesome?

Truthordeal

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #351 on: July 19, 2009, 11:59:23 pm »
That's a fairly unisex name. I think you might get discriminated against because it sounds weird, but...

Thought

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #352 on: July 20, 2009, 12:25:30 pm »
Regarding the insults "cow" and "bitch," it is interesting that no one has commented on how they are the deadly sin counterparts of perceived feminine holy virtues.

"Bitch," as I usually hear it applied, tends to indicate that a women is mean, in-your-face, rude, uppity, etc. That is the exact opposite of how standard sexist culture claims that women should act (they should be "kind, caring, polite, soft-spoken, etc).

"Cow" (at least as I hear it used in the States) tends to be directed in a most physical sort of manner; calling a woman cow is akin to calling them fat, lazy, and simple. The sexist stance is that women should be accomplished (in Pride and Prejudice sense of the word), industrious, and slender.

I ask you, why shouldn't a woman be in-your-face? What is so bad about an uppity member of the XX genetic group? Why is our society consumed with the supposition that a woman's worth is defined by her weight (or lack thereof)?!

To call a woman such names is to chide them for not conforming to sexist social expectations.

Indeed, physical appearance is one of the more subtle forms of sexual oppression that occurs in modern society. Being overweight is seen as a punishment; if you fail at life, that is what you'll be.

I recently received a spam email that read "Happy Birthday Barbie!" followed by a picture and then the additional sentence "It is about time this happened to her."

Here's a link to the image that was included in the email: http://www.clickplay.com.au/funny_zone/wp-content/uploads/pic04144.jpg

I took the tone of the email to be one of revenge; Barbie is hated and so being overweight is revenge. To say that a person's weight is a punishment is actually fairly apt; society seems to bind women with size 6 chains.

There are certain perceptions associated this being fat: they're stupid, lazy, gluttons, etc. While women are underrepresented in the sciences, overweight women are even more underrepresented. This ignores the reality of the situation. We don't discriminate someone because of hair color, correct? It's genetic and they can't do anything about it (except perhaps dye it). But a person's weight can (and often does) have a huge genetic factor associated with it.

Our genes can predispose us to eat more, to process that food more efficiently, to more readily store fat, to produce additional adipose tissue with greater ease, to retain excess fat more stubbornly, to burn fewer calories for common activities, etc. Epigenetics and environment can also play large roles in if a person is large. Recent studies indicate that what a mother eats while being pregnant can influence the weight of the child (consume excessive calories and the child has an increased likelihood of being obese in their adult life). There are viruses that can cause a person to put on weight. To blame someone for being overweight is akin to blaming someone for developing cancer (though the difference is that cancer's effects on the body are much well known).

And so what does society do? We insist that women should appear a certain way. If they don't, they should devote all their efforts to achieving that ideal. Instead of society trying to keep women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, society is trying to keep them in sweat pants, exhausted, and in the gym. The effect is largely the same; don't give them time to think, to develop as human beings, to become the women they want to be. No, they should spend their time, fighting their genetic structure, trying to conform to a fleeting ideal. Keep a populace exhausted and distracted and they won’t have the energy to rebel.

It is quite frustrating when I hear men complain that a woman's "ugly" because she's fat. Physical attraction does likewise have a genetic component, but such genetically predisposed preferences seem to be in a minority of the population. The majority of physical attraction seems to be the result of social conditioning. Which is to say, when a guy says that a woman is ugly because she's fat, he is really saying that he is subject to social conditioning that limits his own perceptions. It is a comment on the viewer, not the one being viewed.

To be more a little soap-boxy, the old saying that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is vile bunk. Beauty is inherent in the beholden. Every woman (and indeed, every individual) is beautiful. That is the starting condition. It is only a question as to if the beholder is capable of seeing past their own prejudices to see it. When we call someone ugly, all we are doing is identifying our own limitations, where we have failed as human beings. It says not a whit about the person to whom the insult is being applied.

Third, we can acknowledge hopefully with unanimity that some naming conventions are structurally sexist because they routinely flow from male to female...

Depends on how one looks at it. Julius and Julia would seem to be one such example of where the female equivalent is derived from the male version. Historically, it is true that the name Julius seems to have been common long before Julia was. However, both follow basic Latin grammatical forms. The name stem is "Juli-" while the "-us" and "-a" endings are merely declension specific endings (and those declensions have gender associated). Julius and Julia are grammatically cognates, not derivatives.

Or consider Aaron and Erin; the former was popular long before the latter, and so one might well suppose that the latter was derived from the former. However, if one is willing to trust a website on name information (a dubious proposition, of course), then Erin and Aaron aren't even related (the former being of Hebrew origin and the latter being of Gaelic origin).

General classifying nouns, however, such as waiter and waitress or actor and actress, appear (to the best of my knowledge) to be much more along the lines of what you are talking about, and indeed is seemingly unnecessary. The only potential use I can see for having different words for the same position is, say, for a director to know who he ought to cast in a particular role (though we may be too hasty in excluding women from men's parts, and vice versa. Such swaps used to work, after all).

We could talk through all of that, but I think if you're looking for a yes-or-no answer as to whether sex-specific names are sexist, look no further than the fact that names are rarely chosen by adult individuals who are looking to express themselves.

Do you mean that people seldom choose standard names when selecting adult monikers, or that they seldom choose sex specific monikers? And in what setting?

People choose aliases for the internet fairly often, and as adults, but anonymity seems to be a powerful draw for non-standard names than an aversion to sexual identifiers. Additionally, people seem to still generally follow vague naming conventions. To be very hasty in my generalizations, it seems that words that end in consonants are often associated as being masculine while words that end in vowels are often associated as being feminine (though diminutives of all sorts also often take vowel endings). To use the forum as an example:

Uboa, Zephira, and ZaichikArky are all self-identified women. You'll note, each ends in a vowel. Take a few male examples: Faust Wolf, Thought, Ramsus, Truthordeal. We all choose names that end in what could be interpreted as standard masculine naming conventions.

Anywho, I'm not meaning to disagree; I just thought of the possibility and as such haven't had time to figure things out for myself.

Naming culture is interesting.  Today, most people keep the names they've been given at birth for their entire lives.

I think you might be too legalistic in such a perspective. I can assure you, my parent's didn't name me Thought. Also, I have had a few nicknames over the years as well. People usually refer to me by my "real" name, but I've had plenty of other names too. The difference is that one was recorded by the government and the others weren't. But that difference doesn’t make the others non-names.

Exodus

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #353 on: July 22, 2009, 04:43:25 am »
Quote from: Thought
"Bitch," as I usually hear it applied, tends to indicate that a women is mean, in-your-face, rude, uppity, etc. That is the exact opposite of how standard sexist culture claims that women should act (they should be "kind, caring, polite, soft-spoken, etc).

I see that as applying to both sexes, not just women.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #354 on: July 22, 2009, 05:46:35 am »
Nowadays that is increasingly true, but it is a very new development for "bitch" to be used of males by the mainstream. And there is still not total parity in the concept, because it is inherently a female label, in the animal world, co-opted for derogatory use among humans.

Thought

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #355 on: July 22, 2009, 10:27:04 am »
I see that as applying to both sexes, not just women.

While it does get applied to men, it still attacks the underlying social assumptions (those associations just happen to be different). Calling a man a bitch is like saying he cries like a little girl; it is essentially saying that he's no man at all.

Zephira

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #356 on: July 22, 2009, 12:37:19 pm »
For a throwback to the abortion debate, that same debate is going on over a health reform bill http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul_abortion.
I don't understand a lot of what's said in there (I'm not that business savvy), but it looks like abortion could almost be winning. Maybe it'll be fully supported sometime in the next few terms.

And as for unisex names, there are already quite I few. I know many Nickys and Dannys in both genders. Giving the "wrong" gender name to a kid isn't that bad, as long as you don't go for an extreme like naming your boy Nancy or naming your girl Dick.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 12:39:57 pm by Zephira »

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #357 on: July 22, 2009, 12:44:20 pm »
I have a unisex name that most people think is a girl's name. It's never caused me much trouble. Most people think it's cool. And you can always tell who pays attention and who doesn't when you meet, cause if you forget my name, you definitely weren't paying attention.

(Not that I'm all that memorable. But it's a weird name.)

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #358 on: July 22, 2009, 11:56:01 pm »
Bekkler: I bet your name is either Kelly or Terry!

Zephira: The fact that nobody in Congress is specifically coming out in favor of explicitly including abortion care in the larger healthcare reform legislation is a sign of just how far to the right our nation has gone. But I think you're correct; I don't think the Republicans will be able to win this concession, and it's only a matter of time before the country collectively recognizes that the Religious Right isn't in control anymore.

Zephira

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #359 on: July 23, 2009, 12:27:33 am »
Hey, my uncle's name was Terry! Although I never thought it could be used as a girl's name. I suppose it could work, though it makes me think she would be kinda dorky.
Yeah, I suppose it is easy to judge people based on name, but that isn't a gender thing specifically. If I meet a man named Dick, my first assumption would be he's a hillbilly.