Crimson Echoes plothole discussion

[Chrono'99]

Oh, what I had in mind for this topic is plotholes that encompass multiple chapters or even the whole game (King Zeal time travels a LOT on his own and most of it is not seen). The CMG wasn't one of those though. Most discussions should still occur in the video threads.

Concerning a subforum, the biggest con is that it might attract lots of "WHERES THE GAME" topics from passers-by.

[IAmSerge]

Oh the FUCK MAN!  I just posted a nice long reply and it didnt go through.

basically, say:

CMG caused dimension split because tehre was the possibility of them NOT stopping the reptite timeline. 

thusly:

reptite dimension vs human dimension.

say, 3 days after CMG caused the events they did at dinopolis and went through the portal... another person went through that portal to another time.  He would arrive there in the reptite dimension, and no copy of him would be sent through the human dimension, becuase in NONE of the human dimensions histories did he time travel.  No time travel means no TTI.

thusly, no copies.

[Acacia Sgt]

However, there is no evidence of a split.

Instead, there is a problem with Sorin. He time traveled alone, then CMG followed. That means there was a time line in which only Sorin emerged in prehistory, and somehow this attempt failed since it took now another time line, in which this time CMG time traveled too.

He couldn't have succeeded as then CMG would have suffered the same fate the other three did, not knowing of the reptite time line and instead appearing in the restored one.

There, a new plot hole to work with. Except, that isn't exactly the plot hole. It's how Sorin entering a TB portal and destroying that Dragon Tooth was able to affect the time line, as that one and the one to appear in 3M BC are not the same anymore thanks to him changing the time line with his time travel.

[Chrono'99]

However, there is no evidence of a split.

Instead, there is a problem with Sorin. He time traveled alone, then CMG followed. That means there was a time line in which only Sorin emerged in prehistory, and somehow this attempt failed since it took now another time line, in which this time CMG time traveled too.

*insert Phoenix Wright "Objection" gif here*

Not a plothole. I planned this one carefully considering the Telepod and Doan plotholes in CT. Here the trick lies in Magus's quote saying "I see... It was the Dragon Tooth that resurrected the Reptites" (or something like that). Sorin travels to Prehistory first, so there's a timeline in which he is in Prehistory without CMG. However, he has no idea the Dragon Tooth is responsible for the Reptite timeline, so he didn't change the timeline. He probably just tried to attack King Zeal and was killed. This "creates" a timeline which is the same Reptite timeline as before except CMG can now time travel to Prehistory (their version of Sorin gets quietly time-bastarded). Now, Sorin is in Prehistory with CMG, and, hearing Magus talks about the Dragon Tooth, he thinks fast and jumps on the Dragon Tooth to prevent the Carmine Genesis.

(Magus didn't know as much as Reptite Lucca/Robo concerning the Carmine Genesis, but with what Yaluk and Coyopa told him and by re-living the event of the Tooth getting gated through time, he deduced the Tooth's role.)

[Acacia Sgt]

Yeah, I corrected myself later in the post.

Except, that isn't exactly the plot hole. It's how Sorin entering a TB portal and destroying that Dragon Tooth was able to affect the time line, as that one and the one to appear in 3M BC are not the same anymore thanks to him changing the time line with his time travel.

[Chrono'99]

Sorin destroys the Dragon Tooth in 3 million BC. When he jumps into the portal the Dragon Tooth is time-bastardized but he is not since he isn't a TB. The original Tooth appear in 3m BC with him.

[Acacia Sgt]

Except that portal isn't a time traveling one now. How is he able to, well, time travel in there.

Imagine this scenario: Crono and Glenn decide to travel with Sorin. Let's say they don't figure out the role of the Dragon Tooth. The three try to fight the king and fail.

Now, in the 1,005 AD of this new time line it's now Magus who travels with Sorin and Crono. Since this Sorin and Crono would get TB'ed (and Glenn doesn't matter here since he will too back in 1,005 AD), does this means that during the voyage through that tunnel-like thing will Magus watch the other two disappear? And then, since SCG have TTI, will he saw them emerge with him in prehistory, despite that two of them he saw disappear and the other was left behind?

I don't think the portals have split destinations. They either lead to this or that place.

[ZeaLitY]

A Gate's a Gate. I don't think it's ever been explored in fiction, but when a Gate's open, you can go into it and travel through time, just like Crono's cats sneaking into the fair gate at the end of Trigger. Since King Zeal didn't know anything was wrong yet, he most certainly would have still created a Gate to 3,000,000 B.C., which he did, and Sorin jumped in this time.

[IAmSerge]

Instead, there is a problem with Sorin. He time traveled alone, then CMG followed. That means there was a time line in which only Sorin emerged in prehistory, and somehow this attempt failed since it took now another time line, in which this time CMG time traveled too.

He couldn't have succeeded as then CMG would have suffered the same fate the other three did, not knowing of the reptite time line and instead appearing in the restored one.

There, a new plot hole to work with. Except, that isn't exactly the plot hole. It's how Sorin entering a TB portal and destroying that Dragon Tooth was able to affect the time line, as that one and the one to appear in 3M BC are not the same anymore thanks to him changing the time line with his time travel.

ok, right now, I have no shitting idea what you're talking about.

my prior post was just to explain and refute your suggestion about how there would be multiple copies of a whole bunch of people under situations or somethin, which im not sure what it said anymroe but w/ever.

Besides:  There is NEVER evidence of a dimension split.  Unless you can find an angelus-errare (sp?), or use one of chronopolis's computers or technology (of which I do not believe they have yet), you really cannot prove the existance of an alternate dimension... however neither can you disprove it.

The whole situation I came up with was hypothetical anyways.

[V_Translanka]

I've been thinking that a CE discussion forum of some kind would be a good idea. Just one thread might get overloaded like the CTDS analysis thread did...and I don't think the News topics are really supposed to be about in-depth discussion (though I guess they could be?)...

[IAmSerge]

I've been thinking that a CE discussion forum of some kind would be a good idea. Just one thread might get overloaded like the CTDS analysis thread did...and I don't think the News topics are really supposed to be about in-depth discussion (though I guess they could be?)...

sadly, despite how much we like to rave our independence from gamefaqs... just like over there, any topic here can turn into a topic about anything else....

[Chrono'99]

I don't think the portals have split destinations. They either lead to this or that place.

Portals can have split destinations. The Gate in Magus's Castle is an example of that. Besides, it makes more sense for TB to be matter-based rather than strictly portal-based.

That said, the idea of a TTI-fied character getting access to the Darkness Beyond Time by using some sort of "TB portal" is interesting. They could end up there without getting annihilated, maybe... Mmh, almost like cheating death or something.

[V_Translanka]

I've been thinking that a CE discussion forum of some kind would be a good idea. Just one thread might get overloaded like the CTDS analysis thread did...and I don't think the News topics are really supposed to be about in-depth discussion (though I guess they could be?)...

sadly, despite how much we like to rave our independence from gamefaqs... just like over there, any topic here can turn into a topic about anything else....

I don't see how that's sad or really related to GameFAQs...The Compendium has always allowed for a moderate amount of straying in topics as long as the topics are related, but if you have specific threads, it's easier to just bring up certain discussions there instead of bringing them up in one giant fuckall who-wants-to-sort-through-this-later (probably more applicable to the CTDS than a possible CE though) thread.

[Acacia Sgt]

So, about these recent videos, with the Porre soldier having an element...

How did Porre got them? El Nido doesn't exist yet and that's where the art of element crafting came from.

Unless... didn't a Xamoltan member was in this era? A possibility, but I doubt it, not to mention I also doubt Zenan had those places in which elements could be made.

Nevermind, I haven't watched all the videos yet, and when I saw the annotation about an explanation next chapter...

[Chrono'99]

Remember CGM's strengthman contest?