Pictures Thread

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Uh... Ohhh-kaayyyy...

Now I don't get it.

[Zephira]

I am man, in the sense that I'm human
But I am 100% female. Yay!

Yes, Zephira, your pictures made that abundantly clear.

The reason I said male and man is that I am not only technically male but also have a man's temperament. I suppose you could take it in the older sense of meaning human. But that is usually capitalized as Man.

Hm, forgive me, but your sig is giving me trouble. I've had a spot of grammatical trouble the last few days. I got muddled about participles and now everything is eluding me, so I can't quite read it.

I'm trying to teach myself Latin, as there's no class for it here. I can't find any good set rules for sentence structure.
It's supposed to be, loosely, "All you people are so scared of me", and "You're not afraid of the dark, are you?"
The second one, translated literally, reads "Darkness you fear not, you are?" Sorry if it's bothering you, I'll fix it when I can find some better source of grammar rules.

[Daniel Krispin]

[I'm trying to teach myself Latin, as there's no class for it here. I can't find any good set rules for sentence structure.
It's supposed to be, loosely, "All you people are so scared of me", and "You're not afraid of the dark, are you?"
The second one, translated literally, reads "Darkness you fear not, you are?" Sorry if it's bothering you, I'll fix it when I can find some better source of grammar rules.

Heh, always a good endeavour! To be lauded! Heh.

Ah, hm, true, you need a good grammar source. I was basically getting what you said, I just wasn't sure on a few of the finer points. Like, hm, make sure that if you are addressing a people, and they fear something, the thing they fear goes into the accusative, as in English. So you say 'you fear ME.' rather than 'I'. Ego is the Latin I, so you want the Latin 'me.' This is, well, 'me', actually. Heh. The problem is you've given yourself terribly difficult sentences. Something like putting 'so' in is a very precise construction implying almost a sarcastic superlative or something. You have to have some pretty intricate grammar books and examples to show you how to convey something like that, otherwise you'll just end up saying, say, 'very scared.'

For the second one, yeah, after giving it a second glance, and seeing what was written under your avatar, I supposed you might be trying to say that. It's close, but there's a lot of idiomatic things you'd have to put into such a sentence like that that I wouldn't know off hand, and I've been doing this for quite a few years. I've even composed my own Latin elegies, but I'd still need my grammars and my dictionaries.

Uh, hm, okay, first the question you have to ask (this is for the second) what the number you are speaking to is. It's probably singular, right? (Ie. you're asking one person 'you're not afraid of the dark') In that case... well, you definitely have the verb right, but you would only need make it singular, say, times, rather than timetis (which is fine if you wish the plural, by the way.) Now how to form a question... well, one way of doing this is to add -ne to the first word (according to my grammar book.) And as for what you fear, well, this is a little difficult. In English we're constructing in a weird way. We're constructing it using an adjective (fear) a verb (are) and a genetive of what is feared. But I don't think Latin would be constructed in that way. I rather think they would say more directly 'You do not fear the dark, do you?' Then darkness becomes the direct object, so tenebrae is tenebras. Therefore, 'you do not fear the dark?' is 'tenebrasne non times.'

But then I'm a little lost. See, it's a weird idom in English to repeat the question to imply an expected affirmation. I'd have to search for an equivalent idiom in Latin, because this is getting a little hairier than the stricter grammar.

Oh, heh, I absolutely love my grammar book. It has an entry for just such a 'are you?' construction! It's introduced with 'num'. So basically, it would be 'num tenebras times?' (it seems the 'not fear' is included in the num.)

Yeah, not sure if that helps. I've gotta look these things up myself each time, even after doing a lot of translation. But keep with it! Latin can be fun and, honestly, I often enjoy composition so much more than translating. Half the time I've not done my homework because I've been trying to write myself some Latin verse or what not. Heh. Terrible, I know, but very enjoyable!

Oh, right, the first one, almost forgot. Hm, well, I've gotta run, but you're doing fine, I'm sure you can figure all of these things out. As you say, you just need a grammar book, and a good dictionary I must add! I love Cassell's dictionary (has an awesome English to Latin section... it's what's allowed me to do all my composition!) As for the grammar, try this one: http://www.amazon.com/Students-Latin-Grammar-Cambridge-Course/dp/0521385873/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233535606&sr=8-1

It's what I use, and it's awesome.

Anyway, good luck on the Latin! More than anything, enjoy it!

PS
Sorry if I get a little excited about Latin grammar. Eh, that's stuff's all my field, so whenever someone starts talking about it I get all giddy.

[Zephira]

Daniel, you rule. Thanks a ton.

I'll order those books when I can get enough cash. Probably not for another couple months though.
Do you know if there are any online sources that I can read before getting the books? I've found worksheets for a college latin course, but they don't really cover the basics.

I think the 'fear the dark' one is supposed to be plural. The lines are from an ocremix, and it sounds plural there. (Magus - Decay of Hope. Great song.)

[Radical_Dreamer]

The reason I said male and man is that I am not only technically male but also have a man's temperament. I suppose you could take it in the older sense of meaning human. But that is usually capitalized as Man.

And here I thought you were acknowledging and highlighting the distinction between sex and gender. Maybe next time.

[Prince Janus]

  Maybe this is why Gin dresses the way he does...

[Shadow D. Darkman]

I assume that was you when you were about ten?

[Prince Janus]

 That's when I was Five, son.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

Hey, my bad! I was guessing!

[Prince Janus]

Age 22

[Shadow D. Darkman]

That's you now, I take it?

[Daniel Krispin]

Daniel, you rule. Thanks a ton.


I'll order those books when I can get enough cash. Probably not for another couple months though.
Do you know if there are any online sources that I can read before getting the books? I've found worksheets for a college latin course, but they don't really cover the basics.

I think the 'fear the dark' one is supposed to be plural. The lines are from an ocremix, and it sounds plural there. (Magus - Decay of Hope. Great song.)

Vere se solum regno. Ah, well, in that case, to say timetis was correct. Good work!

Well, there are some good sites for certain things. I mean, if you want a massive database of many ancient works (where clicking on the words will take you to the dictionary entry and all), then you can go to Project Perseus: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collection.jsp?collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman

As for the grammar, that I'm not sure about. I'm always in favour of using physical resources rather than things I have to read online. I would recommend getting them in hard copy, whether that's through online or, if you're tight for money, through a used bookstore (or even through a library?) Anyway, yeah, but until you get one, you can always ask me. I'm not taking any Latin courses this semester (argh for scheduling conflicts!) so it would be good practise for me to have to give it some thought. I always have a good time with composition, both prose and verse (and some day you can try the latter and utterly confound yourself! Heh. It's tough, but rewarding. See, you have to keep the metre to a set form, and that's based on the length of the syllables.)

Oh, and by the way, no course will teach you to write Latin. They just don't do that anymore. Some profs might, if their preference leans that way, teach you a bare bit of prose composition, but little beyond that. My 100 level prof, being an old Austrian, was fond of it; as was one of my 300 level profs, but he was an old Brit. But most think it's kinda useless, and will only stick to teaching you how to translate. So if you want to be able to write it, you're on your own anyway. And as for something like, say, writing in poetry, I don't think they ever teach that anymore anywhere. I asked some of my teachers, who are excellent scholars, if they ever did verse composition, and they kinda laughed and went 'no...'. I think it probably fell out of style centuries ago. I mean, Milton must have been pretty adept, as he wrote several elegies in excellent Latin verse. But I do not think you could find a decent poet in Latin in the last few centuries. Heck, half the time you have a difficult enough time finding a decent English poet these days.

The reason I said male and man is that I am not only technically male but also have a man's temperament. I suppose you could take it in the older sense of meaning human. But that is usually capitalized as Man.

And here I thought you were acknowledging and highlighting the distinction between sex and gender. Maybe next time.

What makes you think I wasn't? The 'I suppose' was a concessive to Zephira that my use of the word man could be taken in the sense of meaning human, but that wasn't my intent. I meant male as far as the biological category, and man in regards to the social construct. I'm not entirely sure that I believe that, but it was worth saying anyway.

[Radical_Dreamer]

"A man's temperament" seemed vague to me. I personally find it tricky to distinguish between the two concepts in English (which is not to say I know another language where it's easier) in a clear and easy way, even though I understand the underlying concept.

It probably doesn't help that a fair amount of people seem to be unaware of the distinction at all.

[Prince Janus]

That's you now, I take it?

 That's me now.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

*nods* I see.