Sales and ratings don't mean shit, anyone familiar with the Twilight series knows that.
Nice attempt at trashing CC but now let me tell you why I am right and you are wrong (also see my sig)
The problem here is you saying "Many crappy characters" and "Kato cancelled my Magus 'cause of them", alright let's divide that into points shall we.
1. Too many underdeveloped characters that don't work together and have no relationship.
WRONG. Most of the characters had a backstory developed whereas some characters in Trigger didn't. Let's take Ayla shall we? Aight. What do we know of her? Hmmmm. We know nothing of her past. We know she likes Kino and we know she wants to fight Reptites. We also know she has a strong will of surviving and that she probably had a link with Guardia (even though this is never confirmed). Well that's it for her. What a great development. Yes, Cross has those too, ofcourse. Take Draggy for example, probably one of the most underdeveloped characters that was put in for fun. I don't know which other characters you think are underdeveloped; I know there are some of them. The problem is that you seem to think that Trigger didn't have these, which is wrong, the only difference is that in Trigger they weren't playable
As for not working together, some of them have double and triple techs. Not a lot, but they're there.
Not to mention you can equip any element on any character you wish (almost) to variate their actions.
And to be honest, the amount of characters shows the fucking HUGE world you're playing in. Even though you can timetravel in Chrono Trigger I always feel like I'm in a small world with the small amount of characters and small world map. You're right, there's some characters in Cross I never used to this day. All the reason more to go and play it again.
2. Kato cancelled Magus 'cause of em.
A load of bullshit. I don't see how Magus wouldn't have fit in right there in the role of Magil next to Serge and Kid. The other characters could be developed, so why not Magus? A big f*cking load of bullshit and a crappy excuse why Magus isn't in the game.
Masato Kato: To let the cat out of the bag, in the early stages of development, Guile was indeed meant to be Magus. In our original plan, the true identity of Guile was supposed to be Magus after the events in Trigger. (At the end of Trigger, Magus [a.k.a. Janus in Trigger and Magil in Radical Dreamers] disappeared into a Time Gate to go searching for his big sister, Schala, who was lost somewhere in time.) However, as the game's development progressed and we decided to use such a huge number of playable characters, we decided not to make him be Magus. We thought it was impossible to portray the relationship between Magus and Schala adequately in this game. So we changed tracks, made the colors of the Magus character design paler, and turned him into Guile, the magician. In a way, it's a pity, as I really would like to have seen the valiant figure of Magus come to life again.
Anyway, you say that Ayla's character development is "more then you can say for half the Cross cast". Well it's not really much development at all.Wait, are you admitting that at least half the Cross cast had less development than Ayla?
QuoteAnyway, you say that Ayla's character development is "more then you can say for half the Cross cast". Well it's not really much development at all.Wait, are you admitting that at least half the Cross cast had less development than Ayla?
No I'm not, how did you get that idea...
Ayla's past is a lot more hidden than the other characters, I bet a lot of you don't know that she found and raised Kino. A lot of her character comes from her actions and what she says, which were all interchangeable things for the characters in Cross. Accents and backstory/motivation completely unrelated to the quest at hand do not a deep character make, it comes from seeing them in action. The characters in Cross weren't alive, they were equipment.
Raised Kino huh? Couldn't find that anywhere in the game. Care to give a source? And how the hell is that relevant to the main plot or quest at hand? Ayla doesn't have any development related to the quest at hand yet you badmouth Cross characters because of this very thing. And to be honest, most of them did have some development with the quest at hand. Not all of them, but for a lot of them you saw that they desired a wish from the Frozen Flame, which in turn had something to do with their past. You say a past and future don't make a great character, but supplying some Dreamstone does?
There's more "variation" in the design of Cross characters because there's a heaping pile of them. No one's gonna debate whether or not they look cool, because everyone knows the graphics and design were one of the good points of Cross, but they aren't really relevant in a "which has the better story and characters" argument since you could switch the sprites for Orcha and Orlha and not even tell the difference in play.
Orcha and Orlha have different ways of talking and walking, they both have different pasts and different personalities. I can easily tell the difference between any Cross character.
If Magus was in the game you know everyone would play as the Radical Dreamers awesome combo. Look at how most folks already keep Glenn or Norris in the party over whatsisface.
I don't think so. Because Cross has a lot of characters there's at least some of them everyone can identify themselves with. And these will probably become the characters of their choice. Even if Magus was in Chrono Cross, anyone who didn't like him in Trigger wouldn't have him around this time either.
EDIT: @Black Wind
Long post is long. Fails due to boredom and lack of excitement.
This site thrives on lengthy discussion and debates, it's why it's so well developed and long-lasting.
I voted both b/c they're both really good games. If I had to pick only one of them, though, I'd pick Trigger.
The sway was too close for me to just say "Trigger FTW" and be done here.
I loved Cross despite the hardships I went through, but I love Trigger better b/c of the neat shit you can do that you didn't do in Cross.
EDIT: @Black Wind
Long post is long. Fails due to boredom and lack of excitement.
...get out of my thread.
...get out of my thread.
Huh, when were you given mod powers? Voting both and loving CC for what it has was not someone else's opinion. It's my own.
Speaking of mods, can someone do us all a favor and hit Shade Blackman with the BanHammer? I don't like getting ripped off.
EDIT:REPORT'D.
There's more "variation" in the design of Cross characters because there's a heaping pile of them. No one's gonna debate whether or not they look cool, because everyone knows the graphics and design were one of the good points of Cross, but they aren't really relevant in a "which has the better story and characters" argument
...get out of my thread.
Huh, when were you given mod powers? Voting both and loving CC for what it has was not someone else's opinion. It's my own.
Speaking of mods, can someone do us all a favor and hit Shade Blackman with the BanHammer? I don't like getting ripped off.
EDIT:REPORT'D.
EDIT: @Black WindI'm going to call for a popular census to remove your vexing, banal, erratic and crappy 4-chan reference spewing account.
Long post is long. Fails due to boredom and lack of excitement.
Dark Serge: I'm going to call it a day and simply agree to disagree on this issue for now. Perhaps I won't hate CC as much if I give it a more recent playthrough and appreciate it for what it is rather than what my expectations were. Fair enough and to be honest, I was planning on doing that anyway because it's series canon. Although you started off arrogant, at least you were mature enough to actually debate with me on the issue rather than spout utter nonsense. I'll respect that much.
Magil: Caught Between Love and Adventure
This scenario can be accessed by falling asleep, following Kid, examining the desk in the study, and then entering Riddel's room.
Magil in reality is a man named Gilbert, who has pined for Riddel all his life. He and Riddel exchange their affections, but Riddel recoils when Gilbert asks about their marriage vows made some time ago in the garden of the Manor. As she softens up to him once more, her servant Noelle comes in, and reveals that Riddel was assigned a suitor. Gilbert is wounded by this, and struggles to convince Riddel to go with him. The maid is alarmed by Kid's insistence on finding the Frozen Flame, and alerts the guards; Riddel notes that someday, Gilbert may return and be friends. Gilbert will have none of this, and throws Riddel over his shoulder as he defeats the guards. As the Radical Dreamers and Riddel reach the courtyard, the occupants of the Manor emerge and bid them farewell; Lynx, the foster father of the bride, tears up. Gilbert points to the morning sun, and notes that it is "our Frozen Flame."
Basically they cut Radical Dreamers in half and put it into CC as the Viper Manor infiltration thing.
It's a visual novel type text game. You play as Serge, only instead of being a fishy mute he's an ex-musician thief narrator working with Kid and Magil(Magus). The game is mostly sneaking around a very spooky Viper Manor, learning about Lynx through the rooms and characters, getting affection points from Kid, and looking for the Frozen Flame (which looks more like Dreamstone than what it was in Cross). I think one of the reasons I disliked Cross was that I got used to RD's versions of certain characters and saw them chopped in half or changed to completely different things.
I've seen vids of FF7, but I don't think I could ever understand the battle system or the Materia thing. Advent Children was an excellent movie IMO, and I've seen someone bashing The Spirits Within somewhere here. Just want to say that TSW was a good movie, but Advent Children does so much better, but nowhere near enough to justify bashing TSW.
IMO both CT and CC are good games. My sig shows that I think CC is just as good as, if not a tiny bit better than, CT.
I've seen vids of FF7, but I don't think I could ever understand the battle system or the Materia thing. Advent Children was an excellent movie IMO, and I've seen someone bashing The Spirits Within somewhere here. Just want to say that TSW was a good movie, but Advent Children does so much better, but nowhere near enough to justify bashing TSW.
...and The Spirits Within was extra shitty.
True, AC is better, but it's not better enough to justify ANYONE bashing TSW, not even you.
You want a game that's hard? Try Star Ocean: TSS on Universe Mode. Whew... it was hard, but it was fun. Also, I wouldn't go as far as to say TSW was a horrible movie, but it wasn't a good movie either ─ and it certainly wasn't worthy of the Final Fantasy 'seal of approval', so to speak.IMO both CT and CC are good games. My sig shows that I think CC is just as good as, if not a tiny bit better than, CT.
I've seen vids of FF7, but I don't think I could ever understand the battle system or the Materia thing. Advent Children was an excellent movie IMO, and I've seen someone bashing The Spirits Within somewhere here. Just want to say that TSW was a good movie, but Advent Children does so much better, but nowhere near enough to justify bashing TSW.
Final Fantasy series is a lot more harder than Chrono series, but it's not like impossible or anything. Materia system is pretty simple once you mess around with it and find what you like. There is also a graphic mod for the pc version that makes the game look a lot better, and The Spirits Within was extra shitty.
Dark Serge: I'm going to call it a day and simply agree to disagree on this issue for now. Perhaps I won't hate CC as much if I give it a more recent playthrough and appreciate it for what it is rather than what my expectations were. Fair enough and to be honest, I was planning on doing that anyway because it's series canon. Although you started off arrogant, at least you were mature enough to actually debate with me on the issue rather than spout utter nonsense. I'll respect that much.
Thanks.
*Removed my sig because I feel it's kinda stupid now. I had some fun making it, but it won't do anything but either piss people off or make them a tiny tidbit happy.*
Can you by definition rip yourself off?I don't think it was as much of a 'rip-off', as a blatant whoring of the Final Fantasy name in order to get fans to attend the movie in theatres and buy the DVD. Btw, I'm not a Final Fantasy fanboy, it just wasn't a good product ─ pretty, but not good.
It just was a poorly titled movie. FF fanboys were pissed because it wasn't "FF enough". They probably should have just given it an independent title.
I don't think it was as much of a 'rip-off', as a blatant whoring of the Final Fantasy name in order to get fans to attend the movie in theatres and buy the DVD. Btw, I'm not a Final Fantasy fanboy, it just wasn't a good product ─ pretty, but not good.
it would have faded into obscurity with Savio Vega and Crystal PepsWhile the FF tag on it probably did more harm than good to the movie itself, I don't think it would've faded into obscurity without it. First off, it was still a Square product, which that alone probably merits enough attention to be comparable to FF alone, plus the project design of using high detail cg to emulate people was an interesting undertaking at the time that would also grant it more attention. The work on Cid alone is largely unmatched by current media today. Even advent Children's character work doesn't touch the detail on Cid.
Quoteit would have faded into obscurity with Savio Vega and Crystal PepsWhile the FF tag on it probably did more harm than good to the movie itself, I don't think it would've faded into obscurity without it. First off, it was still a Square product, which that alone probably merits enough attention to be comparable to FF alone, plus the project design of using high detail cg to emulate people was an interesting undertaking at the time that would also grant it more attention. The work on Cid alone is largely unmatched by current media today. Even advent Children's character work doesn't touch the detail on Cid.
I'd have to say, outside of the FF tag, Aki was the weakest link in an otherwise promising movie setup. In both her visual design and character design, she really wasn't compelling enough a character to carry the story as she was supposed to. Heck, I'd just about say that Sora is the successful form of Aki, and he doesn't even have the fake female sex appeal going for him. The FF tag has probably been the key to the failure Spirits Within experienced.
Darkman: Your choice and Sig. contradict eachother.
I didn't say just Final Fantasy removed and it would have faded away. I said if it was made by a different company than Square without the Final Fantasy branding. Actually it's practically faded away into obscurity already. When is the last time you heard someone say, "Man I really want to watch that shitty final fantasy movie."
(http://www.court-records.net/rips/bubble-objection.gif) (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2887661)Click the pic!