Chrono Compendium
Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Chrono Trigger DS Analysis => Topic started by: Arc Impulse on November 26, 2008, 02:54:33 am
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Long time no see, Compendium. (I'd be surprised if anyone actually remembers me here except for maybe Zeality, lol.)
I just finished getting through the new ending in CTDS today in English, and then out of curiosity I decided to replay it in Japanese to see if there were any significant differences in the script. As you might expect for a game translation in this day and age, there wasn't really anything huge, but there were a few factual nuances that I thought people might find interesting so I figured I'd post a transcript/translation.
First of all, Time's Eclipse in the Japanese version is called "Toki no Yami" = The Darkness of Time. O SNAP.
The full text of the Eclipse scenario and ending follows:
(note, I had Magus in my fighting party, but as far as I can tell all the lines below are spoken by future!Magus and not by party!Magus.)
？？？「ここには、もうラヴォスはいない。
ここはすでにラヴォスが倒された
未来の時空だ。
俺たちがヤツを滅ぼした。
???: Lavos is no longer here.
This is a future timespace where
Lavos has already been defeated.
We destroyed him.
[I find it curious that this future(?) Magus refers to himself throughout this ending as 'ore'--
Magus in the rest of CT refers to himself as 'watashi' everywhere but a single scene.]
Ｍａｇｕｓ「もっとも、お前たちが
やってきた世界で
俺たちが手を組んでいたかどうかは
知らぬがな。
Magus: Although I don't know
whether or not I joined forces
with you, in the world you come from.
[He said this to me with Magus in my party, so I assume he says the same thing no matter what.]
世界は、せんたくの数だけ存在する。
There are as many worlds out there as there are choices.
Ｍａｇｕｓ「この先で、新たな敵が
生まれようとしている。
この先に広がる、時の闇の底で。
Magus: Beyond [this Gate], a new
enemy is trying to come into being.
In the deepest depths of the Darkness
of Time beyond this point.
人の記憶を、夢を、想いを
喰らおうとしている...。
It's trying to devour people's
memories, their dreams, their thoughts...
Ｍａｇｕｓ「俺のジャマをするな。
お前たちはそこで見ているがいい...。
Magus: Don't get in my way.
You just stay there and watch...
((blah blah, Magus fights DD, sucks at it))
Ｍａｇｕｓ「クッ...
ま、まだだ......。
Magus: Ungh...
Not-- not yet...
((the party enters. In my party of Crono/Magus/Marle nothing interesting was said))
Ｍａｇｕｓ「ジャマはするなと
言ったはずだ...。
Magus: I told you not to get in my way...
サラ「なにもかも、消えてしまえばいい。
失われてしまえばいい......！
Schala: Everything should just disappear.
It should all be lost forever...!
Ｍａｇｕｓ「ダメだ！目を覚ませ！
目を覚ましてくれ......、サラ......！
Magus: No, don't! Open your eyes!
Please, wake up... Schala...!
['open your eyes/wake up' have the same metaphorical meaning in Japanese as they do in English -- he's begging her to break free of Lavos's influence.]
誰か「あ、あぶない！！
Somebody in the party: Look out!
((more boring messages from the party here))
サラ「滅びなさい、すべてのものよ！！
Schala: Let all things perish!!
((DD battle goes here. Moment of editorializing: was pathetically easy at lvl 60 once I equipped status immunity items.))
Ｍａｇｕｓ「ダメだ！
いけない、サラ......！
Magus: No, don't!
You can't do this, Schala...!
Ｍａｇｕｓ「くッ......！ 姉上！
Magus: Ungh...! Schala!
[he actually says 'ane-ue', i.e. "big sister". This is what Janus/Jyaki always calls her in the JP version.]
Ｍａｇｕｓ「あ、姉上......？
Magus: S-- Schala...?
サラ「いずれ私の意識は、
完全にラヴォスに
飲み込まれてしまうでしょう。
Schala: Sooner or later, my
consciousness will probably be
completely swallowed up by
Lavos.
絶望と悲しみの底で、
すべてを消し去ることを......
自分を消し去ってしまうことさえ
望んだのは、私自身なのだから......。
Because I myself was the one who,
in deepest grief and despair,
wished that everything... that even
my own existence would be erased...
サラ「いまのあなた方のちからでは、
私を解放することは不可能です。
Schala: All of you -- with your power
as it stands now, it's impossible for
you to free me.
[Note that she's specifically speaking in the plural, addressing the party as well as Magus.]
いえ、むしろ、
ちからに頼っている限り、
あなた方には世界の絶望も悲しみも、
いやすことはできないものです。
No, rather--
For as long as you rely on power,
none of you can heal this world's
grief, or its despair.
さあ、いまは、自分たちの時代に
おもどりなさい。
For now... back to your own eras
with all of you.
Ｍａｇｕｓ「姉上......。
Magus: Schala...
サラ「ジャキ......、ありがとう。
私は、もう以前の私ではないの......。
あなたは、強く生きて......。
Schala: Janus... thank you.
I'm not the same person that I was before...
Please, live on and be strong*...
[*literally "live strongly".
In this part, she talks in an informal style, and her speech almost sounds like the slang of a perfectly normal girl...
you can really feel her love for Janus in this bit, I think.]
Ｍａｇｕｓ「姉上！？
Magus: Schala!?
サラ「さようなら......
Schala: Goodbye...
[a formal "sayounara", which hints that she expects never to see him again.]
Ｍａｇｕｓ「姉上ーッ！
Magus: Schala--!!
Ｍａｇｕｓ「俺の力では、どうあっても
かなわぬというのか？
Magus: Do you really mean to say that
with my power, no matter what happens
it will never be enough?
ならば、俺という存在に、
これからの俺の日々に
いったいどんな意味があると
いうのか......？
If that's the way it is, just
what meaning could there
ever be in my existence, or
in my days to come?
Ｍａｇｕｓ「フッ、いいだろう......。
ならば、俺もすべてを投げ出して
消え去ってしまうとしよう。
Magus: Heh... very well, then...
If that's how it is, I too will
throw away everything and
disappear.
それでもまだ何かが残り、俺という
存在が続いていくというのならば......
その時こそ新たな何かが生まれ、
始まるのだろう。
And if even then, something still remains--
if some part of this being I call "myself" still
keeps existing...
Maybe then it will be possible for something
new to be born, to begin.
((Cue Magus poofing into the darkness, then reawakening in Random Forest A.))
ここは......？
うっ......
Where...?
Unh...
俺は......俺は、だれなんだ？
何も思い出せない......。
いったい、何がどうなっている......？
I...... Who-- Who am I?
I can't remember anything...
What in the world is going on...?
俺には、何か、どうしてもやらなくては
いけないことが......、見つけ出さなくては
ならないものがあった......はずだ。
There was something I... had to do...
no matter what...
Something I had to find...
I'm sure of it.
それを、なんとしても取り戻してみせる。
きっと、な。
No matter what happens, I'll get it back again.
No matter what.
And that's that. Like I said, not a lot different, but it's evident that the translator wasn't too worried about preserving nuance.
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You're the person who translated the End of Time text from a Japanese website long ago, right? (And the end of Tyran castle and some description of FF6's Ending).
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I might have, lol. I seem to remember doing something involving the final battle with Azala, but that's been forever ago, oh man.
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thanks for the translation Arc, this will dispell rumors that some words and thoughts were lost in the english to japanese translation
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Jeezus the guy that did the english script for CT should have played CC first. :?
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I'm a lot like that. Everytime I go into despair, I wish for me and everything in existence to be erased.
I guess that's why I push to be nicknamed Schala. Me and her are so alike that it's... haunting. Actually I've sort of grown into the identity. A lot of people say I'm nuts for having an out of character identity of a videogame character, even had some mental clinic suggestions. But ever since I first witnessed her, she seems to be something that quite possibly triggers a memory of my former life. That's why I have a quivering feeling in my stomach.
Bottom line is I'm possibly the utmost Schala RPer you'll meet. Because in my life, I'm hardly out of character. Not only that but I've been told I give off the perception of some (nutty) people thinking I'm the real Schala. It's... flattering.
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Eh, I don't know, as far as characterization goes I've always thought that what Katou did with Schala in CC and now in CTDS was pretty OOC and weak. But that's that and this is canon.
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Well, I'll tell you that I've been mentally reforming myself and today I can recall....fictional memories of being in Zeal, in her shoes.
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In CC we didn't see enough from her imo. Sure she talked a lot but apart from that we only saw her on top of Lavos and in a very short FMV. Would have loved to see more.
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Thanks for the translation...!
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I'm a lot like that. Everytime I go into despair, I wish for me and everything in existence to be erased.
I guess that's why I push to be nicknamed Schala. Me and her are so alike that it's... haunting. Actually I've sort of grown into the identity. A lot of people say I'm nuts for having an out of character identity of a videogame character, even had some mental clinic suggestions. But ever since I first witnessed her, she seems to be something that quite possibly triggers a memory of my former life. That's why I have a quivering feeling in my stomach.
Bottom line is I'm possibly the utmost Schala RPer you'll meet. Because in my life, I'm hardly out of character. Not only that but I've been told I give off the perception of some (nutty) people thinking I'm the real Schala. It's... flattering.
Well, I'll tell you that I've been mentally reforming myself and today I can recall....fictional memories of being in Zeal, in her shoes.
Wow, Schala, that's... interesting. Seriously. I can somewhat relate. I remember imagining myself in Crono's shoes, hence my character's role in my Chrono Flux stories. It was little outdoors game for me at first, if I recall, and then I read "The Legend Of Chrono Trigger" on IcyBrian, and had the inspiration to convert it into a story.
BTW, this may be a little off-topic, but in both stories, I implied a Shadow/Schala pairing. It never happened, but in both stories, when Shadow visits Zeal, he falls for Schala. :oops: :)
EDIT: It kinda seemed a bit tactless, so I added the two smilies.
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Arc, you have hugely made some progress here, so the Compendium thanks you from the bottom of its collective heart. From the Japanese translation, it is clear that:
1. Time's Eclipse is just a translation bastardization; it really is the Darkness Beyond Time we're dealing with here.
2. The issue of whether Eclipse Magus traveled with Crono & Co. in his dimension is still vague.
3. There is less evidence in the Japanese translation that Schala actively erases anyone's memories. She doesn't say anything like "dwell not on this," and Eclipse Magus apparently erases his own memories ("throw away" is much more active than "abandon.") However, Eclipse Magus still notes that the Dream Devourer has the capability of devouring memories. However, the preponderance of the evidence shows that Eclipse Magus commits existential suicide.
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Arc, you have hugely made some progress here, so the Compendium thanks you from the bottom of its collective heart. From the Japanese translation, it is clear that:
1. Time's Eclipse is just a translation bastardization; it really is the Darkness Beyond Time we're dealing with here.
2. The issue of whether Eclipse Magus traveled with Crono & Co. in his dimension is still vague.
3. There is less evidence in the Japanese translation that Schala actively erases anyone's memories. She doesn't say anything like "dwell not on this," and Eclipse Magus apparently erases his own memories ("throw away" is much more active than "abandon.") However, Eclipse Magus still notes that the Dream Devourer has the capability of devouring memories. However, the preponderance of the evidence shows that Eclipse Magus commits existential suicide.
Agreed, and it gives us reason to believe that Eclipse Magus is Guile.
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Yeah, I don't know why they call it Time's Eclipse...although that's a cool name...
'時の闇' means Time's Darkness in literal or we say The Darkness of Time.
It seems the translator even didn't take CC's script into consideration?
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All my predictions/analysations still hold true? Interesting...
Arc, did you notice anything else that might be interesting? If so, please tell us.
Also, the Schala-fanboy in me wants to know what she says if you lose that battle.
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Aye, the translator didn't seem to take CC into consideration...unless a CC retranslation is on the way! Hah.
Magus: Heh... very well, then...If that's how it is, I too will throw away everything and disappear. And if even then, something still remains--if some part of this being I call "myself" still keeps existing...Maybe then it will be possible for something new to be born, to begin.
Compare that to this quote:
Magus: Hmph. If this is to be the way of things, then let me abandon all that was and fade away as well. Should a part of me somehow even then remain, then perhaps that will be the birth of something new--something with greater meaning than all of this.
In the Japanese script, he seems to take this a lot more lightly and even acknowledges an alternate "self". Look how disheartened and...pissy...he sounds in the second quote; it sounds like he's giving up out of anger, whereas the Japanese script shows this greater level of understanding in what he's about to do.
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All my predictions/analysations still hold true? Interesting...
Arc, did you notice anything else that might be interesting? If so, please tell us.
Also, the Schala-fanboy in me wants to know what she says if you lose that battle.
Both in the English version and the translation of the Japanese.
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Here's what happens in the English version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMAT9Rm5pv0), Schala says "The end of all is nigh" and then the in-game text "In the end, the future refused to change."
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Here's what happens in the English version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMAT9Rm5pv0), Schala says "The end of all is nigh" and then the in-game text "In the end, the future refused to change."
<Insert Lavos Scream Here>
ROFL.
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Aye, the translator didn't seem to take CC into consideration...unless a CC retranslation is on the way! Hah.
Magus: Heh... very well, then...If that's how it is, I too will throw away everything and disappear. And if even then, something still remains--if some part of this being I call "myself" still keeps existing...Maybe then it will be possible for something new to be born, to begin.
Compare that to this quote:
Magus: Hmph. If this is to be the way of things, then let me abandon all that was and fade away as well. Should a part of me somehow even then remain, then perhaps that will be the birth of something new--something with greater meaning than all of this.
In the Japanese script, he seems to take this a lot more lightly and even acknowledges an alternate "self". Look how disheartened and...pissy...he sounds in the second quote; it sounds like he's giving up out of anger, whereas the Japanese script shows this greater level of understanding in what he's about to do.
Is it just me, or did Magus' encounter with Schala reawaken his "Janus" personality? To me it seems like he sarcastically refers to himself post-Zeal (after becoming Magus) as "myself", indicating that this isn't the true him.
And yes, I have seen what she said in the English version, I just want to know what she originally said.
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Aye, the translator didn't seem to take CC into consideration...unless a CC retranslation is on the way! Hah.
Magus: Heh... very well, then...If that's how it is, I too will throw away everything and disappear. And if even then, something still remains--if some part of this being I call "myself" still keeps existing...Maybe then it will be possible for something new to be born, to begin.
Compare that to this quote:
Magus: Hmph. If this is to be the way of things, then let me abandon all that was and fade away as well. Should a part of me somehow even then remain, then perhaps that will be the birth of something new--something with greater meaning than all of this.
In the Japanese script, he seems to take this a lot more lightly and even acknowledges an alternate "self". Look how disheartened and...pissy...he sounds in the second quote; it sounds like he's giving up out of anger, whereas the Japanese script shows this greater level of understanding in what he's about to do.
Is it just me, or did Magus' encounter with Schala reawaken his "Janus" personality? To me it seems like he sarcastically refers to himself post-Zeal (after becoming Magus) as "myself", indicating that this isn't the true him.
And yes, I have seen what she said in the English version, I just want to know what she originally said.
Probably one of the most respectable things Janus/Magus has done in the whole series.
Anyone ever read "Chrono Trigger Prophecies" by Jerm?
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No, rather--
For as long as you rely on power,
none of you can heal this world's
grief, or its despair.
Dragon God:
In order to survive,
all living things in this world
fight desperately and
devour those they defeat...
Must one kill other living
things in order to survive?
Must one destroy another world
in order to allow one's own
world to continue?
The wounded in turn wound
and torment those weaker
than they themselves are...
There are only the killers and
the killed...
The sinners, who are judged, and
the victims that do the judging...
What meaning is there
to such a world?
Kid:
So that's Terra Tower's
final, true form...
In the end, we're all the
same...
Everyone dreams of bein'
greater, more powerful...
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No, rather--
For as long as you rely on power,
none of you can heal this world's
grief, or its despair.
Dragon God:
In order to survive,
all living things in this world
fight desperately and
devour those they defeat...
Must one kill other living
things in order to survive?
Must one destroy another world
in order to allow one's own
world to continue?
The wounded in turn wound
and torment those weaker
than they themselves are...
There are only the killers and
the killed...
The sinners, who are judged, and
the victims that do the judging...
What meaning is there
to such a world?
Kid:
So that's Terra Tower's
final, true form...
In the end, we're all the
same...
Everyone dreams of bein'
greater, more powerful...
Hmm...
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I like this more than the English version. The something he has to find is more vague, so it's not irritating like
Magus: FINE if she's gonna be like THAT I'll just DISAPPEAR TOO! I'll probably have more meaning if I erase my memories, yeah!
Amnesiagus: Ugggh there was something important but I can't remember, my meaning will be... a snappy dresser searching for my memories!
Me: >:I
Still kinda miffed that after everything he's been through, this timeline has Magus so obsessed with power that he can't seem to fathom an existence where HITTING IT DOESN'T WORK UUURGH.
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I like this more than the English version. The something he has to find is more vague, so it's not irritating like
Magus: FINE if she's gonna be like THAT I'll just DISAPPEAR TOO! I'll probably have more meaning if I erase my memories, yeah!
Amnesiagus: Ugggh there was something important but I can't remember, my meaning will be... a snappy dresser searching for my memories!
Me: >:I
Still kinda miffed that after everything he's been through, this timeline has Magus so obsessed with power that he can't seem to fathom an existence where HITTING IT DOESN'T WORK UUURGH.
NICE.
Here, have a cookie.
(http://analytics.mikesukmanowsky.com/analytics/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/cookie.gif)
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lol, long reply is long.
Arc, you have hugely made some progress here, so the Compendium thanks you from the bottom of its collective heart. From the Japanese translation, it is clear that:
1. Time's Eclipse is just a translation bastardization; it really is the Darkness Beyond Time we're dealing with here.
2. The issue of whether Eclipse Magus traveled with Crono & Co. in his dimension is still vague.
3. There is less evidence in the Japanese translation that Schala actively erases anyone's memories. She doesn't say anything like "dwell not on this," and Eclipse Magus apparently erases his own memories ("throw away" is much more active than "abandon.") However, Eclipse Magus still notes that the Dream Devourer has the capability of devouring memories. However, the preponderance of the evidence shows that Eclipse Magus commits existential suicide.
You're very welcome :)
Re point 2, I think the Japanese version all but explicitly tells us that Eclipse Magus did indeed join up with Crono's party. The fact that he says "we" defeated Lavos -- in a language where you only bother using the plural when you're making a specific point -- and the line about "I don't know whether I joined up with you guys in your world" heavily implies "but I did join up with you in my world." To me this seems like the biggest oversight in the English adaptation -- the translator/adaptor got all caught up in making Magus sound all kewl and philosophical and deep as they consistently do throughout CTDS, and accidentally obscured this specific fact in the process.
Also re 3, if the specific verb is important to you, I should note that what he says in Japanese is "nagedasu" -- this can be translated as 'throw away', 'abandon', 'sacrifice', 'throw down', etc. The literal imagery in the word is to cast something or toss something away from you -- 'nageru' is the same word you use to describe throwing a baseball, for example. I'm not sure if it's possible to really determine his intent from this single word; the connotations of it aren't really the same as 'throw away' vs 'abandon' in English, as you can see.
Yeah, I don't know why they call it Time's Eclipse...although that's a cool name...
'時の闇' means Time's Darkness in literal or we say The Darkness of Time.
It seems the translator even didn't take CC's script into consideration?
I really, really don't think they consulted CC, for serious :/
My feeling is the translator wasn't too worried about the consistency issue and just picked Time's Eclipse because it sounded neat. You can say that when there's an eclipse, it gets dark after all, lol. They probably just didn't realize that the name Darkness of Time has a specific meaning in the series.
All my predictions/analysations still hold true? Interesting...
Arc, did you notice anything else that might be interesting? If so, please tell us.
Also, the Schala-fanboy in me wants to know what she says if you lose that battle.
I'll check on Schala's dialogue if you lose here in a bit, though judging by what she says in the English version, I doubt it will be much of anything interesting :(
I'm not sure what you're looking for in the way of interesting things I noticed, but in terms of trying to figure out just who Eclipse Magus is/where or when he's from, I find it interesting that he consistently calls himself "ore" in the way of a first-person pronoun. I haven't played through the entirety of CTDS in Japanese, but I think it's safe to say they didn't rewrite the entire game, and when I played the SFC version Magus consistently referred to himself as "watashi" 99.9% of the time. There's a single scene where he calls himself "ore", and it has a great dramatic impact -- it's in the Ocean Palace, when the Mammon Machine summons forth Lavos, right before Crono gets killed. Magus tries to take his revenge and talks about how he's lived for nothing but defeating Lavos, and that particular point is the only part of the game where he refers to himself with the aggressive-sounding "ore" rather than the very neutral "watashi".
Is it just me, or did Magus' encounter with Schala reawaken his "Janus" personality? To me it seems like he sarcastically refers to himself post-Zeal (after becoming Magus) as "myself", indicating that this isn't the true him.
And yes, I have seen what she said in the English version, I just want to know what she originally said.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but don't read too much into my quotation marks -- I added those for readability in English, nothing more. There's nothing to imply sarcasm in the Japanese. (Indeed, Japanese does not really have sarcasm as a concept at all, to tell the truth.)
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Guess I over-analyzed...>_<"
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Thanks for the translation. Very interesting topic... Some random thoughts:
Because I myself was the one who,
in deepest grief and despair,
wished that everything... that even
my own existence would be erased...
A very similar idea is described in Radical Dreamers concerning Schala:
Long ago, in a far off kingdom, lived a girl. Because of her power, the kingdom
had come to an end, crumbling under its own weight. Many became engulfed in the
temporal vortex that was created, never to be heard from again...
...But not the girl. She lived on, enduring a much sadder fate... Running from
her past and fearing her future, she wanted nothing more than to be swallowed
up in the surging waves of the vortex of time...
Incidentally, it's Schala that erases her memories in Radical Dreamers (Kid = Schala), rather than Magus. It was thanks to the Frozen Flame though, not on her own.
No matter what happens, I'll get it back again.
No matter what.
"No matter what"... I really like that part. Contrary to other people, I don't think this alternate Magus is that different from normal Magus. The latter always displayed a very special, paradoxical mixture of will power and despair. Alt Magus also displays that. Even after giving up his memories he still keeps on uttering "No matter what". Besides, Magus already gave up his identity once (when Janus became Magus); he basically does the same thing again here, except in a more dramatic way since his Magus persona is so much more overwhelming than that of young Janus (see Guile's Frozen Flame quote also).
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Wow, this is really interesting... O_O
Still confusing, though it does clear some things up. I agree, it seems like Tom Slattery didn't play CC. o.O
I agree with FaustWolf: We need a Re-retranslation.
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Hahaha... A re-retranslation would be nice... But perhaps this is setting things up in a direction that we have not yet foreseen. This may not be setting up events for CC, but perhaps they're setting events up for another Chrono game? I know it's already been proposed, I just feel that that is so much more likely. Granted, I'm one of the ones who refuses to acknowledge any relation between Guile and Magus. Maybe I'm in denial, maybe I'm not.
As far as I'm concerned, the fate of "Future Magus" or "Time Eclipse Magus" is still left unintentionally vague, and I assume that he has a fresh start - and not one as Guile.
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Because I myself was the one who,
in deepest grief and despair,
wished that everything... that even
my own existence would be erased...
Schala wished, and Lavos did?
「おまえのなかの失われた、もう一人の
自分が、消し去られることを拒んであが
いているのだ……」
The long-lost another yourself, doesn't want to be erased, is now struggling inside you...
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Because I myself was the one who,
in deepest grief and despair,
wished that everything... that even
my own existence would be erased...
Schala wished, and Lavos did?
Lavos is like Shenron and Porunga? Holy crap!