Chrono Compendium
Zenan Plains - Site Discussion => Polling => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on June 23, 2006, 03:34:22 pm
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Vote!
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In all reallity this game in my strong opinion has no flaws, but If i had to give it consrtutive critisism it would be how shot the game is and the lack of Zeal coverage. I think Zeal should rise once more.
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For an SNES game, length is ok.
I was more concerned with the temporal mechanics. It is possible for an effect to come before an action.
Marle's disappearance, Schala, Magus, the time gates . . . these weren't explained enough. Did Marle really go to someplace "cold" and "dark", something like the DBT? What really happened with Magus after the time gate closed? Where is the Schala in the original time line before you go back in time? The many things like these confused me at first, but the flaw of CT, in my opinion were those temporal plot discrepancies.
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I voted "It's too short", but I'm thinking more about the deepness than the actual length. The Present, Middle Ages, and Zeal were deep and interesting, but I believe they could have made the Future and the Prehistory more complex and a bit more important in the overall story.
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The biggest problem with Chrono Trigger was that Ayla was gypped out of a side quest. No singing mountain is a total rip-off.
People might expect me to have a problem with time-holes, but Chrono Trigger is an upbeat adventure story and the few mechanical inconsistencies do not interfere with the plot.
However, another problem is the inability to rearrange the party during combat, which is a major annoyance.
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Chrono Trigger was produced by Square too late in the company's growth to become one of its big title series. Now most of the best stuff published by Square-Enix other than Final Fantasy (and now Dragon Quest)-related work is actually created by small, third-party studios. It's easier to let the small guys work on the innovative, risky titles and slap on the Square-Enix logo. They don't have to pay for development, and they get to choose the best ones.
Then they can throw all their resources into working on less risky endeavors, namely anything related to the Final Fantasy series, because they know it'll sell well no matter what.
Had Chrono Trigger been produced by a smaller company with no major bread and butter titles, the developers would have left it more open to future sequels. Based on the game's popularity, you'd definitely have seen them too.
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Only 6 votes. You guys suck.
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Now it's seven Zealty :)
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Only 6 votes. You guys suck.
You should have put an option that Chrono Trigger has no flaws, so everyone would vote for that.
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My turn:
I don't think it's to short, because you can easiely play +20 h just on one playthrough(not getting Level **)
Temporal Plotholes... any examples for ma stupidyness?
And to easy: Maybe, but you can make it even harder if it's to easy for you (like Low-Level-Game etc.).
I don't think it's a flaw, it is better to make a game a bit easier so a lot of people can play throught it than to make it uber hard but no one will actually go on playing. I hate games where you die 10+ time on one boss because he is just to strong...not that this happens that much.
The only thing I don't like is that it wasn't released in Europe, but that's not a flaw of Chrono Trigger, more a flaw of SE.
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I canīt vote, because for me, CT has no flaws.
CC has. A lot of them. Actually, CC IS a giant flaw.
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I canīt vote, because for me, CT has no flaws.
CC has. A lot of them. Actually, CC IS a giant flaw.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Stories/36
There is a fine difference between opinion and objective criticism. Read that article.
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two words
Silent Protagonist
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palette swapping (can't be helped, I know)
and I agree with the earlier poster who commented on the relative emptiness of the prehistoric era and the future.
Actually I think the chrono trigger world could have done with a little more body and places to go in all eras.
So memory size in stead of palette swapping.
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Peronally, it truly is a FLAWLESS game.
The plot was quite thick for the SNES RPG era (and still stands as one of the best, most original video game plots EVER). It was also comfortably paced, with the length making it not too long, but not too short.
The only 'flaws' (and they aren't even real flaws, just two things I figured could've been built upon) were:
1.) All the time-traveling could've made more of an impact, with the overall plot having had more explanations for events and what not. The game could've spoon fed us some more (instead of us all conversing and making our own canonical ideas). Then again, that's actually a reason a like it, so this is a matter of preference.
2.) I would've liked to have seen more character development. For instance, here are several idea's:
<Crono - Maybe has problems with his childhood and the absense of his father (perhaps he died, perhaps imprisoned, maybe even just disappeared, etc.)
<Marle - I felt she had the most development, and for her I have no real complaints. She had family issues with her father and with her mother's death, and she was quite rebellious. This was pretty much solved in the game as she grew as a character.
<Lucca - She was a genious, and the only real development we got was that her mother's legs had been ravaged by a malfunctioning machine. It is assumed that this was the reason Lucca became so interested in machinery, because she was incapable of saving her mother. Then again, maybe she just inherited her father's love of tinkering with machinery.
<Ayla - Little development, mainly just Humans -vs- the Reptites. Maybe she could've struggled with defining 'humanity' or the differences in Humans and Reptites. I dunno, something. Maybe even some development between her and Kino...?
<Frog - I always thought that he would've made a great character to base around chivalry and religion. He struggled with self-guilt and lacking faith in oneself, but it would've been nice to see him as relgious and revrent. Not necessarily a zealot (and his religious doesn't have to be Christianity - it could've been left open-ended), but a follower. For instance, maybe he didn't want to hurt others because of religious reasons but comes to grip with fighting as a means of protecting his religious and his friends. I dunno. He could've also been instilled with a stronger sense of chivalry.
<Robo - A great internal struggle would've been nice: "am I man or machine?" Although he was a machine, his loyalties could have posed a problem for him. He was a literal machine but had the mind and self-awareness of seemingly human. He could have dealt with struggling to find loyalties. Or something along those lines.
<Magus - The character was great. I would've liked to see him just fleshed out more...to make him more of a tragic hero. Magus has such a great story, a little bit of filler would'nt hurt, however.
I hope this helped...?
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Wow. That was a lot of typo's. I think that's a record for me. Serves me right for not checking before I posted. :)
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I think every good game feels too short, so that was kinda an easy answer...otherwise I'd have to agree with Gray. Losing Singing Mountain was a huge blow that still stings.
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I'll take the "it has temporal plot holes" option.
Normally I'm fairly forgiving as far as stretching the rules, but there are a few events that are really tough. And I've never been a big fan of "teh Entitie did it lolz :P" as an explanation. Don't get me wrong, the flawed temporal mechanics do not detract from an otherwise excellent plot, but to me they're more of a flaw than shortness and easiness are.
On the other hand, temporal plot holes do give a forum like ours something to talk about, so maybe they're not so bad after all. :D
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Not enough fanservice.
>>
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i always want a game to go on forever
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I said that it's too short, as I never like games to end (especially Chrono Trigger since I loved it so much), but in reality I don't know if there are any major flaws. If I had to choose one thing, I'd say that some of the characters could have been developed more (primarily Ayla and Robo, as others have said), which would likely come with a longer game. That and I would have loved to have more quests/sideplots in the Dark Ages before Zeal was destroyed, simply because I absolutely loved the Kingdom of Zeal.
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a flaw was the lack variety in new game plus, i mean you have to do almost everything the same. It would of been awesome to save Zeal and Schala, maybe do some other cool stuff
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Technically, it's all in the above... It serious flaw of a short game, lots of plot holes and its way too easy. But despite its flaws its, it is an awesome game. But I wish that they'll fix these plotholes with another sequel.
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Other
PSX version:Life Skips A Beat Ending;
SNES version:No,no and again no.I just can't find a flaw for this game, now matter how hard I try.
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It's too short.
24
It has temporal plot holes.
13
It's too easy.
5
Other (please post what)
10
~
Those who voted "Other" because they meant to contest that the game is flawless are losers. Blind devotion is the stuff fanboyism is made of. Be wary of it.
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For me, Chrono Trigger has two significant flaws:
1) The battle music usually interrupts the background music. In some parts of the game, that works. But more often than not, it ruins the mood.
2) The non-linear part of the game is much less interesting than the plot-driven majority. The whole "go your own way" philosophy is a drag on the drama of good storytelling.
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What's wrong with Chrono Trigger is it has ungrateful "fans" (and I use the term lighty) like you. "It's too short, Temporal plot hoes," and "it's too easy." What sad excuses for "flaws." Let's consider what it might be like if it was flipped around: You'd probably hate the game if it was too long, made too much sense, and was too hard. Unless you're some kind of video game junky and don't have a life. But you may think I'm some kind of hypocrite but you know what I work and go to school AND have a social life and whenI'm not doing any of those yeah I'll play video games.
Any way back to the game. I think it was awsome. I give props to Square for trying to continue on with the story but it just didn't happen. :( :( :(
I ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Back to Gamefaqs.
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The real choices should have been
1) not enough sequals
2) more Magus screen-time
3) Woosleyisms
4) Other
That's all I've got to say about that...
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What are Woosleyisms?
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I've never seen Zeality that cruel o.o'' Kinda scary, but CT doesn't have many flaws except for singing mountain. That's the only flaw i saw in the whole game. Of course, if we wanted to add singing mountain, it'd require time to put that big blotch of mud back into 65,000,000 BC. The map wouldn't be too hard to put together cause we have the map, just don't know what happens in there. But yeah...
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What are Woosleyisms?
Changes in the script made by translator Ted Woosley that negatively impacted the game. Changing of "sake" to "pop" is often cited, although this is more Nintendo's fault that Woosleys.
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The only thing i can find in this game to be an actual flaw without geting into detail is that well there's a few... Ayla isn't a big enough part of this game.... you coul blow through Zeal in 30 mins or less then it's to the stupid dark ages.... i'll think of some later.
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The only thing i can find in this game to be an actual flaw without geting into detail is that well there's a few... Ayla isn't a big enough part of this game
Well, that brings us back to Singing Mountain - Ayla's supposed sidequest.
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The biggest real weakness? NOT ENOUGH SEQUELS!!!
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Honestly, I thought it's environments lacked vibrance in its atmosphere, which is why in my mind CC>>CT.
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I (think I) voted for "too short"...
I wanted to see more of Zeal. The other ages weren't as good. The future sucked (although it was the most atmospheric age AFTER Zeal :) ).
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I (think I) voted for "too short"...
I wanted to see more of Zeal. The other ages weren't as good. The future sucked (although it was the most atmospheric age AFTER Zeal :) ).
I agree.
Zeal was too rushed. The moment you get there, it's all, "The Gurus are gone!", "The Queen has gone nuts and Lavos is coming!". It could've been more peaceful at first, with the party befriending Schala, and, rather than her just sealing the Gate, it would've been better if she had to struggle to bring herself to preventing her new friends from returning.
Then everything would've went nuts as usual. :D
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I hate to admit it, but Zeal was the most eye-candyish. Though I can't stand the place/it's inhabitants/Magus and especially Schala.
Honestly, I thought the whole Zeal line was a CT flaw. Not its existance, per se, but the fact that it had so much air-time annoyed me.
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I think that the real flaw of Chrono Trigger are the plot holes. The ability/magic system was pretty linear, but you can't expect too much from a game that old.
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Zeal needed more lore and history.
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No. It doesn't. I'd much rather hear about wtf happened to civilization from 1999-2300 than hear more shit about Zeal.
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No. It doesn't. I'd much rather hear about wtf happened to civilization from 1999-2300 than hear more shit about Zeal.
It's quite evident what happened to civilisation from 1999 to 2300.
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No. It doesn't. I'd much rather hear about wtf happened to civilization from 1999-2300 than hear more shit about Zeal.
It's quite evident what happened to civilisation from 1999 to 2300.
Yeah, but it'd be nice to see more of the people's struggles and stuff right after the 'Apocalypse'.
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Oh really, Chrono 99. So can you tell me quite how the present civilizations became Arris and Trann? Also, tell me quite when the robots started acting out of control and killing people etc. Oh yeah, explain to me quite how Death Peak was formed/why it's the important spot for the Time Egg. To summarize, I'd like to know quite completely what happened from 2000-2299 A.D. in regards to everything about the world including Lavos, civilization, geography etc. If you can answer all that 100%, then I apologize and must have missed the "learn everything about the future" portion of the game. Ingame facts, please...I'd rather keep the theorizing out.
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Oh really, Chrono 99. So can you tell me quite how the present civilizations became Arris and Trann? Also, tell me quite when the robots started acting out of control and killing people etc. Oh yeah, explain to me quite how Death Peak was formed/why it's the important spot for the Time Egg. To summarize, I'd like to know quite completely what happened from 2000-2299 A.D. in regards to everything about the world including Lavos, civilization, geography etc. If you can answer all that 100%, then I apologize and must have missed the "learn everything about the future" portion of the game. Ingame facts, please...I'd rather keep the theorizing out.
I believe he was just trying to say that it's quite obvious that the world went to shit after Lavos landed.
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Oh really, Chrono 99. So can you tell me quite how the present civilizations became Arris and Trann? Also, tell me quite when the robots started acting out of control and killing people etc. Oh yeah, explain to me quite how Death Peak was formed/why it's the important spot for the Time Egg. To summarize, I'd like to know quite completely what happened from 2000-2299 A.D. in regards to everything about the world including Lavos, civilization, geography etc. If you can answer all that 100%, then I apologize and must have missed the "learn everything about the future" portion of the game. Ingame facts, please...I'd rather keep the theorizing out.
I believe he was just trying to say that it's quite obvious that the world went to shit after Lavos landed.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to all the small details. We know the world was destroyed and the robots started to profit from the situation at some point, and that's it.
It doesn't have to be more precise than that. The same amount of "mysteries" exist between all the other eras: what happened to Sandorino between 600 and 1,000? what happened to Giant's Claw between 600 and 1,000? how did civilisation evolve between the very long -12,000~600 gap and how did Guardia rise? how was Mount Woe formed? who are the people who used the Sun Stone before -65,000,000 (people mentioned by Lucca?)? See, we don't learn everything about the future, but we don't learn everything about the rest of history either. The gap between the future eras is relatively detailed compared to the gap between (for example) Prehistory and the Dark Ages.
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Oh really, Chrono 99. So can you tell me quite how the present civilizations became Arris and Trann? Also, tell me quite when the robots started acting out of control and killing people etc. Oh yeah, explain to me quite how Death Peak was formed/why it's the important spot for the Time Egg. To summarize, I'd like to know quite completely what happened from 2000-2299 A.D. in regards to everything about the world including Lavos, civilization, geography etc. If you can answer all that 100%, then I apologize and must have missed the "learn everything about the future" portion of the game. Ingame facts, please...I'd rather keep the theorizing out.
I believe he was just trying to say that it's quite obvious that the world went to shit after Lavos landed.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to all the small details. We know the world was destroyed and the robots started to profit from the situation at some point, and that's it.
It doesn't have to be more precise than that. The same amount of "mysteries" exist between all the other eras: what happened to Sandorino between 600 and 1,000? what happened to Giant's Claw between 600 and 1,000? how did civilisation evolve between the very long -12,000~600 gap and how did Guardia rise? how was Mount Woe formed? who are the people who used the Sun Stone before -65,000,000 (people mentioned by Lucca?)? See, we don't learn everything about the future, but we don't learn everything about the rest of history either. The gap between the future eras is relatively detailed compared to the gap between (for example) Prehistory and the Dark Ages.
I guess those are the great mysteries of CT world since nobody explain it yet.
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This is an interesting discussion.
But simply, I believe CT's real flaw was it's short length. Imagine the possibilities of an in-depth remake/sequel where you can visit and interact with many of the time periods. That would've been grand.
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Oh yes and being able to do much more than talk, battle, open chests,and opening special doors that lead to chests in which you need to open. I'm thinkin a Fable type deal. A Chrono game that basically allows you to explore much more than a simple dungeon or allows you to travel across a much larger map. And you are given more battle commands and you can occasionally have a little fun with flatulence.
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Definitely more length to the main quest. I don't know, this is just one of the shortest RPGs I've played (although my favorite) and I think it could have used some more length. Especially in 65000000BC and during your time in Zeal... maybe this is due to the removal of Singing Mountain/Zeal Dungeon.
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It's a bit too easy, some boss fights are difficult to win but not impossible.
Of course it is short, but regarding the others SNes RPGs, the length is ok.
I knew that this game would be one of my favourite when I arrived to Dark Ages only. Zeal Era was really complex and interesting compared to the Present or the Prehistory. Before that, I thought that I was playing to a classical RPG.
Well, I can say that the all-mighty Schala opened my eyes.
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1. Flaw............. It's on SNES... Not any of the newer systems...
:'( :( :cry: :cry: :cry:
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It's also on the PSX but there are fewer copies.
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It's also on the PSX but there are fewer copies.
But they're much more easily accessable.
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True.
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Indeed.
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Indeed.
This is how you've been bumping up your posts to 100 in 2 days... :D
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Indeed! :lee:
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"Chrono Trigger" and "Flaws" don't mix. CT is as close as you can get to a game without flaws. It was a bit short, but I think they could have rectified that with more sidequests than story extensions (for example visits to the North Palace and Sun Keep in 12000 BC). -CSM
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"Chrono Trigger" and "Flaws" don't mix. CT is as close as you can get to a game without flaws. It was a bit short, but I think they could have rectified that with more sidequests than story extensions (for example visits to the North Palace and Sun Keep in 12000 BC). -CSM
It really is as close as a game gets to 'flawless', isn't it? I mean, it's unbelievable how well they created this game. The 'Dream Team' surely isn't an exaggeration...
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I'm going for temporal plot holes as the biggest flaw. Of course, when you think about CT vs. more current titles, it does seem a bit short, but that isn't the biggest flaw in my opinion. Also, while CC may "technically" not have had any identifiable plot holes, CT definitely left me with a MUCH bigger sense of closure, and that means a lot to me. I loved CC all the way up to the ending, but, after that one short part of the game--the part you expect to get answers and closure from--I probably liked it half as much as I did through the entire adventure. That hurt it a LOT for me.
Anyway, enough ramblings...
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Of the 4 choices given, i would have to say plot holes, there were too many, and "The Entity did it" is a really bad explanation
aside from that, i really wish it hadn't been left to the PSX version and CC to figure out what happened to the main characters. You don't know about Crono, Marle, and Lucca being dead until you see the ending cutscene for the PSX version and then play through the beginning of CC to find out that Lynx killed Lucca. Frog's story is wrapped up, but other than that, Schala, Magus, Robo, and Ayla are pretty much all ignored when loose ends are tied up. Schala's story is finished only in CC, and Magus (most important character plotwise IMO) is completely ignored, because SE didn't feel like spending the time to give him a proper storytelling as Magil in CC.
short answer, the biggest flaw is that SE got lazy.
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...that there never was a decent anime. No, but seriously (would have killed for one).
Biggest flaw for me: Silent protaganist. Seriously, the game was amazing, but I've always seen silent protaganists as a drag on any game's story (yes, even the LoZ series). You just miss out on so much about the person. Chrono's death would have had a MUCH bigger impact if you'd seen the type of person he was, since the player would relate to his personality. Was he hopeful about the future? Did he have the typical teenaged "I'm invincible" attitude? Or was he worried about the task they'd undertaken? Did he ever ask Marl or Lucca to sit a battle out because he was concerned for their safety? Or maybe he was a total flirt. XD We'll never know. Games that have protaganists with very powerful personalities always strike a chord with me--since the game is ~their~ story, it's nice to see ~their~ input on it.
This was probably Cross's main flaw for me too. I'm pretty sure that Serge's insights on the different worlds, and his mission objective as a whole would have really helped the plot flow.
Another flaw for me, as a graphics person, is the wonky way that some of the NPCs walk. Seriously. I've been studying these suckers lately, and some of them have some weird walking patterns. I love the variety, but young human Glenn walks like he has a bad case of hemorrhoids.
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The only flaws that I can see is under developed areas such as
Last Village
Prehistory
and the Kingdom of Zeal could have had at least one or two more cities.
Also some dialouge was lost in the translation.
Otherwise it is a flawless game ^_^