Beyond Time: The Black Omen


Certain creatures within the Black Omen exist on the standard time axis; if they're defeated at one point in time, they won't exist in the future, but will exist in the past. Other creatures exist on the Time-Error axis; if the party defeats them once, they cannot encounter them again, as the party has no way to travel to a point at lower Time-Error.


Faulce wrote:

"Why wouldn't the lasers in the front be there even if you only defeat them in the present, and why does Queen Zeal only confront the party the first time she sees them or (if you start that the present) the "third" time she sees them? (I'm talking about the whole Black Omen 'age' thing)"

V_Translanka wrote:

"As for the lasers...No idea...I guess my old theory about the Mammon Machine is powered by temporal energy...Perhaps the Mammon Machine's energy source is inside of a pocket dimension...Wait, doesn't that make sense? Because the Mammon Machine is in a pocket dimension, right? And it's like the powerstation isn't it? Drawing power from Lavos (also in a pocket dimension). So then, the energy of the Black Omen could simply be limited in that regard to one surge or something."

Faulce wrote:

"So wait, are you saying that the lasers are not there because of the pocket dimension? In other words, you destroy the lasers once in any time period, and they are gone for good? Okay... but then why does the Black Omen exist in past eras even when you destroy it in present? If you destroy the lasers in the present, they are gone for good, but the Black Omen itself.... or maybe I took what you said completely differently from what I should have gotten from it, I have a tendency to do that."

V_Translanka wrote:

"No, I was saying that the Black Omen's energy source for certain things was in a pocket dimension, like how the--if not because the--Mammon Machine is. That is, if they're knocked out of commission in one timeline, they can't have the power to function for the other timelines."

V_Translanka wrote:

-argues with own theory-

"Then why aren't the laser guards still there? If it's just an energy source, they should still be there in physical form, right? Unlike the bosses, they aren't summoned to their position. So, then why are they destroyed when you travel back?"

-goes back and argues for the theory-

"Well...Because...The...Energy...It...Since...Oh! I know! Because the energy source is depleted, the past occurrences needn't have them in the first place!"

Leebot wrote:

"My theory on the whole Black Omen problem is that different parts of the Omen are attached to the timeline in different ways. Some, like the laser guards, exist like the End of Time, and defeating them once defeats them in all eras. Other parts, like Queen Zeal, exist in the normal timeline, and if the defeated in the present can be fought again in the past."

Faulce wrote:

"Yay Leebot, good ideas. However, if some things operate with the "destroy it once and its gone for good" idea, then when the Omen is destroyed by Lavos in the Present, wouldn't parts of it just "not exist" in the past? Unless the entire Omen exists in the Normal timeline and only certain beings and weapons inside of it exist like the EoT, wouldn't parts of the Omen be missing? Well I guess not, since the parts are all there, except the lasers and the panels."

Leebot wrote:

"Good point. I'd guess it's just certain animated beings that can fall into the 'destroy it once and for all' category (animated beings including organic creatures as well as automated defense systems). The structural elements of the Black Omen would all have to be part of the normal timeline."

V_Translanka wrote:

"Wait, what about the EoT makes anything seem like defeating it once defeats them in all eras? I don't understand his comparison...If I'm reading you, then you're basically saying you believe them to be in pocket dimensions? I'm not sure if that's what you're saying here..."

Leebot wrote:

"Well, I'm saying that maybe they behave like pocket dimensions in how they act across various time periods. You can access them from any time period, but it's the actions that you took in your relative perspective that matter, not whether you defeated them in a time period before or after the current one."


After the disaster in the Ocean Palace, Queen Zeal used the energy she had absorbed from Lavos to empower both herself and the Ocean Palace. This caused the Ocean Palace to rise into the air and become the Black Omen.


Excalibur wrote:

"Why doesn't the Black Omen appear in the original timeline? Realistically, the only thing Crono and gang accomplished was getting Crono vaporized, so it can't be due to their meddling. Ditto Magus. Also, since the Masamune already exists (in AD 600) before you create it (in 12,000 BC)*, somebody ELSE must have done the same (in 12,000 BC) BEFORE the timeline was altered. And wow, typing that sentence almost made my head explode.

The fact remains that the Mammon Machine HAD to have been tampered with (thus creating the Masamune), getting Lavos' attention who then appeared in the Ocean Palace and destroyed Zeal. Now that Lavos has connected to the Palace, Queen Zeal should have joined with it, and raised the Black Omen. The party's presence should have had no effect on this."

Symmetry wrote:

"We're not sure exactly how the events of the Ocean Palace disaster went down the first time, other than through Janus' claims on the North Cape. However, Crono & Co's interference means that Schala uses the last of her power to send THEM to safety instead of herself and possibly Queen Zeal - thus, no Omen in that scenario."


Queen Zeal - The power-hungry queen of the Kingdom of Zeal. She had the Mammon Machine built to tap into the power of Lavos. When her plan was put into action in the Ocean Palace, it caused Lavos to awaken. Due in part to Crono's interference, she was able to survive this disaster. Empowered by Lavos, she caused the Ocean Palace to rise up and become the Black Omen. Lavos' power also seems to have gifted her with immortality.

The Mammon Machine - A machine created by Queen Zeal to absorb Lavos' energy. In the Lavos timeline, its use caused Lavos to awaken. Lavos then absorbed the Mammon Machine into its pocket dimension. When Crono interfered in the timeline, he caused the destruction of the Mammon Machine. It is this ruined version that the party encounters in the Black Omen. Queen Zeal then sends them into Lavos' pocket dimension, where they encounter the undamaged version from the Lavos timeline.

Nu - Two Nu exist in the Black Omen. They are most likely the same Nu who were seen in the Ocean Palace before it rose. Check out The Secret of Nu for more information on the Nu.

From: Beyond Time