Author Topic: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question  (Read 1925 times)

Zorro3k6

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Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« on: December 02, 2012, 02:43:28 am »
I love the Chrono Series. Well Chrono Cross to be specific. Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG. I never played Chrono Trigger because as a kid I stuck with Sega and then moved onto Sony. So I never really played a lot of Nintendo games, except for the Gameboy, lol. Anyway, one of the things that always bothered me about Chrono Cross is how exactly Serge caused the destruction of the future in the Dead Sea. So thank goodness I found this awesome site. :) Reading through the Armageddon-Branch Theory, most of it makes sense to me. Naturally Crono would only be limited to time traveling in Another world. He doesn't have the power to cross the dimension to the Home world. Also, when the Home world was created in 1010 A.D. I agree that it would have made a carbon copy of the past because before that moment, nothing changed in the timeline. Now I'll assume that Crono was not present in Another world between the years 1000 A.D. and 1010 A.D. because of all his time traveling. So when Serge was saved in 1010, a new world was created without Crono because he was missing and the future had changed. Basically from 1010 onward the future was wiped clean in a sense. All seems to make sense so far.

Now here's where the problem comes in for me. We've already established that prior to 1010 A.D. in the Home world there is a carbon copy of Another world's past. Well since that's true, Crono would also exist in the Home world prior to 1000 A.D. Obviously he was born before the year 1000 and would live up until that year. So then when the year 1000 comes, would he just disappear from the world because he wasn't present between 1000 and 1010 in Another world? This is the only explanation I can think of because obviously the Home world's future after 1010 had to completely change. Otherwise there would have been a second version of Crono running around the Home world in various years and the future wouldn't have been destroyed.

So that's really my only problem with the theory. Beyond that, it makes perfect sense, lol. Any thoughts?

Eske

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 10:20:20 pm »
I love the Chrono Series. Well Chrono Cross to be specific. Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG. I never played Chrono Trigger because as a kid I stuck with Sega and then moved onto Sony. So I never really played a lot of Nintendo games, except for the Gameboy, lol. Anyway, one of the things that always bothered me about Chrono Cross is how exactly Serge caused the destruction of the future in the Dead Sea. So thank goodness I found this awesome site. :) Reading through the Armageddon-Branch Theory, most of it makes sense to me. Naturally Crono would only be limited to time traveling in Another world. He doesn't have the power to cross the dimension to the Home world. Also, when the Home world was created in 1010 A.D. I agree that it would have made a carbon copy of the past because before that moment, nothing changed in the timeline. Now I'll assume that Crono was not present in Another world between the years 1000 A.D. and 1010 A.D. because of all his time traveling. So when Serge was saved in 1010, a new world was created without Crono because he was missing and the future had changed. Basically from 1010 onward the future was wiped clean in a sense. All seems to make sense so far.

Now here's where the problem comes in for me. We've already established that prior to 1010 A.D. in the Home world there is a carbon copy of Another world's past. Well since that's true, Crono would also exist in the Home world prior to 1000 A.D. Obviously he was born before the year 1000 and would live up until that year. So then when the year 1000 comes, would he just disappear from the world because he wasn't present between 1000 and 1010 in Another world? This is the only explanation I can think of because obviously the Home world's future after 1010 had to completely change. Otherwise there would have been a second version of Crono running around the Home world in various years and the future wouldn't have been destroyed.

So that's really my only problem with the theory. Beyond that, it makes perfect sense, lol. Any thoughts?

Great question.  First, what you have to remember is that the Chrono series is amazing about the fact that, in its universe, "nothing happens until it happens."  Crono and Co.'s time travel exploits began in the year 1000AD in what came to be known as Another World, "before" Serge lived and caused the dimensions to split.  Time travel events do not carry over to newly made dimensions, so, in Home World, all of that snazzy time traveling action done by Crono after the moment Serge lived (everything in 1999AD and 2300AD) never happened.  In Home World, the future was not saved.  I'm a little tired right now, haha, so if you need me to explain further, let me know.  =)

Zorro3k6

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 03:06:29 pm »
I love the Chrono Series. Well Chrono Cross to be specific. Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG. I never played Chrono Trigger because as a kid I stuck with Sega and then moved onto Sony. So I never really played a lot of Nintendo games, except for the Gameboy, lol. Anyway, one of the things that always bothered me about Chrono Cross is how exactly Serge caused the destruction of the future in the Dead Sea. So thank goodness I found this awesome site. :) Reading through the Armageddon-Branch Theory, most of it makes sense to me. Naturally Crono would only be limited to time traveling in Another world. He doesn't have the power to cross the dimension to the Home world. Also, when the Home world was created in 1010 A.D. I agree that it would have made a carbon copy of the past because before that moment, nothing changed in the timeline. Now I'll assume that Crono was not present in Another world between the years 1000 A.D. and 1010 A.D. because of all his time traveling. So when Serge was saved in 1010, a new world was created without Crono because he was missing and the future had changed. Basically from 1010 onward the future was wiped clean in a sense. All seems to make sense so far.

Now here's where the problem comes in for me. We've already established that prior to 1010 A.D. in the Home world there is a carbon copy of Another world's past. Well since that's true, Crono would also exist in the Home world prior to 1000 A.D. Obviously he was born before the year 1000 and would live up until that year. So then when the year 1000 comes, would he just disappear from the world because he wasn't present between 1000 and 1010 in Another world? This is the only explanation I can think of because obviously the Home world's future after 1010 had to completely change. Otherwise there would have been a second version of Crono running around the Home world in various years and the future wouldn't have been destroyed.

So that's really my only problem with the theory. Beyond that, it makes perfect sense, lol. Any thoughts?

Great question.  First, what you have to remember is that the Chrono series is amazing about the fact that, in its universe, "nothing happens until it happens."  Crono and Co.'s time travel exploits began in the year 1000AD in what came to be known as Another World, "before" Serge lived and caused the dimensions to split.  Time travel events do not carry over to newly made dimensions, so, in Home World, all of that snazzy time traveling action done by Crono after the moment Serge lived (everything in 1999AD and 2300AD) never happened.  In Home World, the future was not saved.  I'm a little tired right now, haha, so if you need me to explain further, let me know.  =)

Thank you. I thought it was a pretty great question as well, lol. Oh, that's right. In this series, a timeline cannot simply exist due to the possibility that it can change. Actually what you said makes perfect sense. Crono and Co.'s time travel put them in futures where Serge was still dead. So when Serge lived and created the Home World, Crono was unaffected by it because they were in the future and that doesn't carry over to the Home World. So in a way it's like what I stated earlier with Home World's future being wiped clean. Alright, that makes perfect sense, Thanks. I always thought a second version of Crono would exist in the Home world after Serge lived. I mean there were second versions of most of the other characters. So it was a little confusing at first. So we now know that 1999 and 2300 where Crono was were unaffected by the dimensional split and that their actions didn't carry over into the Home World. However that still doesn't explain my other question of what happened to the Crono in the carbon copy past of the Home World. Let's say someone in the Home World were to look at a history book and Crono was in it. He or she would read that Crono time traveled. But since we've established that the original time travel doesn't carry over to the Home World, would the carbon copy past Crono disappear from the world all together?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 03:21:40 pm »
I wouldn't say Crono would disappear. At the end of his adventure he obviously returned to 1000AD, which being pre-split, it would still remain as-is post-split.

Also remember of the Fall of Guardia, which happened in 1005AD, again included in both world's backgrounds. Whatever was Crono's fate there pre-split and in Another World, most likely it remained the same in Home World.

Zorro3k6

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 03:15:59 am »
Hmmm, very interesting. I wasn't sure if Crono returned to the 1000 A.D. or not after his adventure was over. I imagine so because it's the end and he just wants to continue with his life. Well that's fine as it's pre-split still. But then he would still be alive well after 1010 A.D. and would also exist in the Home World as a result of the carbon copy past. So then why doesn't he do anything in Home World? I've never played Chrono Trigger. I think I will after I finish my current playthrough of Chrono Cross again. In any case, I know nothing of the Fall of Guardia. So unless Crono died during that moment, as suggested by your last sentence, it makes no sense why he's not doing anything in the Home World, lol. Or perhaps he is some where in the Home World but thinks he already saved the world due to him traveling back to 1000 and living a normal life. That's certainly a possibility as it would suck if Crono died after all the adventures he had, lol. In any case, at least the mystery of why Serge caused the Destruction of the future is solved. Thanks.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 03:41:11 am »
Just as a final note, the reason why Crono didn't do anything is explained in-game. Both the Dead Sea and at Opassa Beach after Terra Tower show why. I could go into detail but you say you're playing the game so you will find out eventually anyway.

utunnels

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 04:16:48 am »
To me it is a matter of chance. Because crono's battle against Lavos doesn't have 100% chance to win, home world could be a branch in which he doesn't win.

It is also mentioned in game, it is assumed that Lavos pulls Chronopolis back through time because it wants to add more uncertain factors to the history so his defeat in 1999 could be changed. Perhaps he sends the Gurus and Janus to different eras is also part of this plan.

Zorro3k6

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 06:35:12 pm »
Just as a final note, the reason why Crono didn't do anything is explained in-game. Both the Dead Sea and at Opassa Beach after Terra Tower show why. I could go into detail but you say you're playing the game so you will find out eventually anyway.

I don't remember the reason why Crono doesn't do anything being explained in the Dead Sea. I'm at Terra Tower in my current Playthrough. And the last time I was at Opassa Beach after Terra Tower was when I was in 7th grade. That was back in 2001. So I really don't remember the dialogue before fighting the Time Devourer, lol. But thanks. I'll finish and see when it's explained.

Eske

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 05:58:28 pm »
Thank you. I thought it was a pretty great question as well, lol. Oh, that's right. In this series, a timeline cannot simply exist due to the possibility that it can change. Actually what you said makes perfect sense. Crono and Co.'s time travel put them in futures where Serge was still dead. So when Serge lived and created the Home World, Crono was unaffected by it because they were in the future and that doesn't carry over to the Home World. So in a way it's like what I stated earlier with Home World's future being wiped clean. Alright, that makes perfect sense, Thanks. I always thought a second version of Crono would exist in the Home world after Serge lived. I mean there were second versions of most of the other characters. So it was a little confusing at first. So we now know that 1999 and 2300 where Crono was were unaffected by the dimensional split and that their actions didn't carry over into the Home World. However that still doesn't explain my other question of what happened to the Crono in the carbon copy past of the Home World. Let's say someone in the Home World were to look at a history book and Crono was in it. He or she would read that Crono time traveled. But since we've established that the original time travel doesn't carry over to the Home World, would the carbon copy past Crono disappear from the world all together?

The history books would say that Crono time traveled and, if the crew told scholars exactly what happened, would talk about his awesome exploits in 1999AD and 2300AD.  There would be a record of a great celebration at Leene's Square and everything.  Crono's appearance back in 1000AD after everything is said and done is still protected under Time Traveler's Immunity (TTI.)  That being said, those adventures in the future don't ever actually come to pass in Home World because all of Crono's adventures took place in Another World, before the dimensional split.  There is no carbon copy of Crono in the Home World that ever makes it to 1999AD or 2300AD.   As far as the both Home and Another World are concerned, the adventure took place - but the effects of their adventure in the future never transpire in Home World because Crono and Co. never actually appear there to do anything.

Remember: Despite the fact that Crono and Co. defeat Lavos in 1999AD (some argue earlier,) we still see the ruined future in 2300AD until Lavos is ACTUALLY defeated.  So, until the dimensional split in 1010AD ACTUALLY happens, there is only one group of adventurers who actually show up in the future at all - in Another World.  Home World is essentially left for dead.

Zorro3k6

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 11:24:08 pm »
Thanks Eske, I already figured it out though, lol. I was unaware Crono actually returned back to year 1000 after the adventure was over. But then I did hear about it and I should have expected he would return. So basically as far as both worlds are concerned, Crono time traveled, defeated Lavos, and returned home. There was a huge party and everything was fine. But as we've already stated, what Crono did in 1999 and 2300 didn't carry over to the Home World and so thus the future was still destroyed in Home World. So that's fine, I don't have an issue with the Branch theory anymore. However, I am curious if the carbon copy Crono still exists in the Home World after the split and what he is up to. Perhaps that could be a new topic for another time, lol.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 12:02:42 am »
Okay, I suppose it matters little revealing it now. When the apparitions of the trio appear at Opassa Beach Lucca herself states this:

Quote
You see, we no longer
   exist in this time line.

I suppose there's your answer, though it hardly goes into detail about the how.

Zorro3k6

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Re: Armageddon-Branch Theory Question
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 01:44:58 am »
Thanks Acacia Sgt. I forgot Lucca said that. Of course I haven't gone to fight the Time Devourer since 2001, lol. That sucks they don't exist in that time line though. I wish it would have gone into more detail about what happened to them. Oh well. Thanks again.