Author Topic: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World  (Read 657 times)

NiomieLynx

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Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« on: August 21, 2012, 01:03:30 am »
Hey, this is my first post. Nice to meet everybody.

I've recently regained interest in Chrono Cross and have been doing extensive research on the game (though I'm having a lot of trouble understanding certain aspects due to the language used on this site. Ex. The Dead Sea).

There is one part in particular that I would like some clarification on... Based on what I've read here, because Serge's existence in Home World means that Crono and his team never fought or discovered Lavos because they technically didn't exist to begin with, wouldn't that also mean that Lavos never existed? I mean, if everything that occurred before the year 1010 A.D is just a carbon copy of the past, wouldn't that also suggest that the story of Lavos would only exist in history texts, but couldn't happen?

I've looked on this site for an answer, but am not finding anything that explains this. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Eske

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 02:30:08 am »
Hey, this is my first post. Nice to meet everybody.

I've recently regained interest in Chrono Cross and have been doing extensive research on the game (though I'm having a lot of trouble understanding certain aspects due to the language used on this site. Ex. The Dead Sea).

There is one part in particular that I would like some clarification on... Based on what I've read here, because Serge's existence in Home World means that Crono and his team never fought or discovered Lavos because they technically didn't exist to begin with, wouldn't that also mean that Lavos never existed? I mean, if everything that occurred before the year 1010 A.D is just a carbon copy of the past, wouldn't that also suggest that the story of Lavos would only exist in history texts, but couldn't happen?

I've looked on this site for an answer, but am not finding anything that explains this. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hello and welcome!  I was once a very active user on this site and have very recently returned - so my knowledge on some the finer details on the series has since diminished but I will give the best answer I can. Hopefully others will be able to elaborate better.

First of all, time has a funny way of working in the Chrono Trigger/Cross universe.  To answer a part of your question directly, Serge's life being saved by Kid and the dimensional split because of it that followed did not render Crono and Co. or Lavos to no longer exist.  To understand what happened we have to look at how time operates in the Cronoverse.

Events of the games suggest that before a single time travel event can change the course of history, the entire timeline plays out.  For example:

In Chrono Trigger, though the group would eventually save 2300AD from becoming a barren wasteland due the the destruction of 1999AD, until it that act is performed by the group, they still see a ruined 2300AD when they first visit.    Originally, Belthasar, when sent to the far future by Lavos, encounters the ruined 2300AD and builds the Epoch, eventually loses his mind and passes away soon after.   Once Crono and Co. ACTUALLY save the future, the timeline plays out all the way through and Belthasar now ends up in the saved 2300AD where he builds Chronopolis.  Then, through faulty experimentation, Chronopolis is sent back in time - the planet balances this by introducing Dinopolis and their war occurs.  The timeline plays out through all the events that follow and Serge is killed.  Now the timeline continues, Belthasar again appears in 2300AD, the same faulty experiment occurs but this time, after arriving in the past, Belthasar, as part of his plan, saves Serge by having Kid go back in time and rescue him. 

The reason for this (as I recall) is that the Lavos from 1999AD (or beyond, depending on the era in which he was killed) that was stopped from completing its plan due to Crono and Co. defeating it was sent to the Darkness Beyond Time  -  and pulled Schala from the Ocean Palace incident with it. Belthasar recognized the threat and created this whole plan to stop all of space-time from being consumed by the forming Time Devourer.

So, now that we have that down, I can answer your question.  In Crono Cross, Another World is the dimension where Crono and Co. appear in the future, witness Lavos destroying the world, and vow to stop him.  In the final iteration of the timeline for Home World, where Serge is saved and a separate dimension begins, Crono and Co. never appear in 1999AD to stop Lavos.  Remember that only the Crono and Co. from one dimension did all the work in the first game.  Once another dimension was created, all time travel from that point after is negated. 

You may be asking "well if that is true, how did Belthasar appear in the future in Home world?"   I guess the truth would be that he never did, but Chronopolis still appeared in the past many many years before Serge's life or death scenario, so the effects of Chronopolis/Dinopolis on both timelines is kept intact. 

^ Hope that helps and wasn't too wordy.  There may be some errors because, like I said, my knowledge of the games, especially Cross, is much weaker these days.    If you have more questions about the games and why events occur the way they do, always ask!  We need more people asking big questions here  =)

NiomieLynx

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 03:39:36 am »
Thank you. I think I understand. It sounds like even though Crono and Co. would save the world in the future, the planet was showing them what would happen if they didn't intervene with Lavos (that might not have been the actual case, but that idea visually/mentally makes sense to me). I probably should have figured that out on my own, but its been a long time since I've played CT...

Yeah, Belthasar's "presence" in Home World is kinda strange now that you mention it... This game leaves more questions than answers, but I'm going to leave that one alone for now.

I have another question: I've read about the counter-time experiment and the time crash. I think what I'm having trouble understanding visually is how Chronopolis and Dinopolis aren't necessarily physically moved, but just end up with that same space-time coordinates. Is that like saying it was just time itself that was changed for those places to make them exist during the same time period? Even if that's the case, that still doesn't make sense because if neither place physically moves, then how can either place war with each other?

Ugh, my brain.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2012, 10:12:44 am »
Hi there, and welcome!

Well, considering how Dinopolis is first seen as Sky Dragon Island, then Terra Tower, and finally as that... thing, after defeating the Dragon God, I think it's safe to say that at the very least, Dinopolis was moved physically. After all, the way it appeared in the first place, dragged from a different dimension by the Entity, is very different from the way the Time Crash worked out.

It's not that hard to picture a war between the two because even if they don't actually move, because like you say, it's just the area being connected to a different time-period. Anyone can cross that boundary just fine, they'd just not know they've suddenly jumped into a different time period when they do until told.

NiomieLynx

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2012, 09:40:15 pm »
This stuff is really hard to imagine, ha, ha. Guess that's what makes it interesting, though...

I'm going to explain this as I understand it. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, because I want to be very clear about what happened.

The "Salt for the Dead Sea" article on this site makes it sound like Chronopolis and Dinopolis aren't physically moved by the time crash. It sounds like some kind of wormhole is created and ends up connecting the Sea of Eden/Chronopolis from 2400 A.D., to the year 12,000 B.C.

Anything from the year 12,000 B.C. that passes through this invisible wormhole would, without knowing it, time travel and could come into contact with the Sea of Eden/Chronopolis.

If my understanding is right, then that would help clear up other confusions as well. I would understand why Chronopolis would want to prevent itself from being discovered. Wouldn't want another war, right?

As stated above, if there is something wrong with my understanding of these events, please correct me.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2012, 10:10:02 pm »
You got it right, though like I said, this only applies to Chronopolis. Dinopolis wasn't involved in the Time Crash, as it was pulled by the Entity across dimensions.

NiomieLynx

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Re: Chrono Cross - Lavos' Existence in Home World
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 12:33:01 am »
Fantastic. I am happy to have those questions answered. Thank you very much for the help.