Author Topic: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?  (Read 9477 times)

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2012, 12:36:00 pm »
So we know that the Ruby Knife was thrust into the Mammon Machine and, in time, became the Masamune. This happened in both the pre-Chrono Trigger timeline and the in-game timeline. The details of who thrust the knife into the machine are pointless, either way the sword was created.

Flash forward in time. In 590AD Magus killed Cyrus and broke the Masamune. He knew of it's potential and knew that it could tear down his magic defense. It certainly wasn't the only way to defeat Magus, but Magus identified it as a threat never-the-less. Notice the flashback in 590AD, when Cyrus was killed and Glenn was turned into Frog. Magus confronted Cyrus (and the Masamune) confidently (and a bit cocky, almost), and he certainly didn't act afraid of the Masamune. Thus, I would wager that although the Masamune could harm Magus, he wasn't all that threatened by it. He was swatting just one more fly that stood in his way by breaking the Masamune.

Now here's the speculative part (on my end)...

I think that the sword was never completed in 600AD in the pre-Chrono Trigger "original" timeline. We hear no mention of it past 600AD, and it seemingly doesn't exist in 1000AD (although the broken blade may have been at the Hero's Grave; I can't remember if they actually acknowledge that in-game before the Hero's Grave is completed). So after 590AD it just lied broken, never to be used against Magus.

Never-the-less, Frog was able to overcome the defenses of Magus' Castle and kill Magus even without the Masamune. We know that this happened in the "original" timeline anyway, we just don't know the details.

But Crono and company, not really knowing the true events surrounding Magus' demise, helped fix the Masamune and accompanied Frog in his quest. No matter what happened, Magus was slain/defeated/lost to time in both timelines and his attempt to defeat Lavos failed.

So here's the thing... Did Guardia fall in 1005AD BECAUSE Crono and company reforged the Masamune in 600AD? Is it likely that the fall wouldn't have occurred has they not forged the Masamune? Is the fall of Guardia their own doing?

Had they not have reforged the Masamune, Magus would still have been defeated and the events would have been pretty much occurred the same. The outcome would be no different (or hardly any different).

Acacia Sgt

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2012, 08:51:13 pm »
Wait, where is it stated that the Ruby Knife was thrust into the Masamune in the pre-game time line? Because while it is a way for the sword to have been completed, it doesn't say if it was THE way that it was completed in the original events. After all, we Melchior wasn't imprisoned at Mt. Woe since we see him at the Ocean Palace with the other Gurus during the flashback, so he might as well had the time to finish the sword in a less radical way.

Likewise, where does it says Frog went to Magus's Castle in the original events? Not to mention that at the time he was still grieving Cyrus's demise, and it was only seeing the repaired Masamune that snapped him out of it to confront Magus, so it's more likely Frog didn't stormed Magus's castle in the original events.

As for the Masamune and the Fall of Guardia, well, in a way they reforging it did lead into it. Since reforging it meant:

Fighting Magus with it, which as a result ends with him being plunged into Antiquity and they to Prehistory, getting involved with the Tyrano Lair events, resulting in finding the gate to Antiquity, resulting in all the changed events we see in-game, ending with Dalton sucked into the gate to the Dimensional Vortex of 1000AD, and thus in a position to take on Guardia.

So pretty much, yes, they fixing it lead to a butterfly effect of Guardia having it's days numbered, go figure. :roll:
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 09:00:29 pm by Acacia Sgt »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2012, 09:03:37 pm »
But wasn't Frog known in history as the one who defeated Magus, even before Crono and company got involved?

As for the Ruby Knife / Masamune connection, that may be true. Either way, all the guru's were present at the Ocean Palace and sent throughout time. This includes Janus being sent to the Middle Ages as well. Either way, the Masamune exists by the time 600AD and that's really all that matters. :P

Acacia Sgt

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2012, 09:09:15 pm »
No, no one is credited as having defeated Magus before Crono and co. storm the place themselves.

Lennis

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2012, 03:59:11 am »
Flash forward in time. In 590AD Magus killed Cyrus and broke the Masamune. He knew of it's potential and knew that it could tear down his magic defense. It certainly wasn't the only way to defeat Magus, but Magus identified it as a threat never-the-less. Notice the flashback in 590AD, when Cyrus was killed and Glenn was turned into Frog. Magus confronted Cyrus (and the Masamune) confidently (and a bit cocky, almost), and he certainly didn't act afraid of the Masamune. Thus, I would wager that although the Masamune could harm Magus, he wasn't all that threatened by it. He was swatting just one more fly that stood in his way by breaking the Masamune.

I wouldn't say the Masamune wasn't a threat to Magus.  It was Cyrus that wasn't a threat to Magus, because he didn't know how to use the magical weapon to its fullest potential.  Or, another possibility is that Cyrus was an enormous threat to Magus because he didn't know how to control the awesome weapon, and Magus was forced to destroy them both to protect himself.  I think the latter is the more likely event, from a narrative standpoint.  Otherwise, why not just slap Cyrus aside and take the weapon from him?  Granted, I'm thinking beyond established canon here.

ZealKnight

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2012, 06:12:28 pm »
Flash forward in time. In 590AD Magus killed Cyrus and broke the Masamune. He knew of it's potential and knew that it could tear down his magic defense. It certainly wasn't the only way to defeat Magus, but Magus identified it as a threat never-the-less. Notice the flashback in 590AD, when Cyrus was killed and Glenn was turned into Frog. Magus confronted Cyrus (and the Masamune) confidently (and a bit cocky, almost), and he certainly didn't act afraid of the Masamune. Thus, I would wager that although the Masamune could harm Magus, he wasn't all that threatened by it. He was swatting just one more fly that stood in his way by breaking the Masamune.

I wouldn't say the Masamune wasn't a threat to Magus.  It was Cyrus that wasn't a threat to Magus, because he didn't know how to use the magical weapon to its fullest potential.  Or, another possibility is that Cyrus was an enormous threat to Magus because he didn't know how to control the awesome weapon, and Magus was forced to destroy them both to protect himself.  I think the latter is the more likely event, from a narrative standpoint.  Otherwise, why not just slap Cyrus aside and take the weapon from him?  Granted, I'm thinking beyond established canon here.

Well in the scene where they fight, Magus seems to be very uncaring. He beat the shit out of both of them and was like let's insult to injury. He basically lulz their lives to complete devastation. Killing Cyrus as punishment for fighting him, breaking the Masamune to teach them a lesson, and changing Glenn to a frog because he thought it'd be funny.... it kinda was. That's why we love him, he's such a douche lol

utunnels

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Re: What happened to Magus in the original Timeline?
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2012, 10:26:38 pm »
The scene is just cinematic to me, it is an cut-scene after all. Trash the foe, burn his house, beat his mother ...um... I mean crack his weapon and leave with a flick of the cape, it fits a villain like Magus perfectly. As for if he thought the sword is a threat to him, it doesn't matter much.