Author Topic: CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P  (Read 3392 times)

V_Translanka

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2005, 12:22:11 am »
No, don't rewrite it...But I mean, then, like you said, how do you convey something that way that a character just plain can't see? I don't think that just by opening the scene on Janus that automatically makes it his PoV.

But I dunno, I don't use an editor (don't have one anyways)...I just go by (as hard as I can) what Strunk & White tell me. And there aint nothin' bout that in there...

I mean seriously, have you read the whakky style found in, say, King & Straub's The Black House? You can't possibly say that follows this absurd rule.

Daniel Krispin

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2005, 01:01:49 am »
I should think more fully omniscient is reserved primarially in a place where a certain feel is wished for, most especially in a battle of a larger scale. In such a thing, it is advisable (or at least I have found it good) to shift to such a view, as it is more attuned to the voice of legend. A skald singing a tale would quite naturally assume and make up what his heroes were thinking, and would speak of what multiple characters feel. This happens time and again in the Ilidad. This person was suddenly greatly afraid at the onslaught of such and such. And then shortly thereafter, it will say how another was joyful in overthrowing his enemy. This, however, is not exactly within the head of all characters, but rather gives a general overview of what they feel, I suppose, but is still third-person omniscient - sort of a mid-point. You see, you can say precisely what someone is thinking, or you can simply say what they feel as a narrator, but still be more knowledgeable than the person from whose point of view it is - this is a fine thing to accomplish, actually. But this is primarally, as I have said, a thing to use within a battle, which I hold to be a unique case when it stems from a legendary style.

But in most parts, a more limited omniscient view is advisable, you are correct.

Anyway, as far as re-writing goes, here is an example of why rewriting needs to be done (note there is a two year difference between these re-writings):

First, the older terrible version from a few years back. Pay special heed to how badly I describe Magus.

The figure slowly turned, his hair and cape still blowing out behind him. They saw now that he was big; six feet tall at least, and massively built. In addition, he wore thick armour on his chest of some unknown material, and was shod in heavy boots. These contributed to the effect. His large cape lay fastened around his neck and stretched far back behind him. Likewise his hair, which they now saw was pale purple, still flew back behind him. On his hands were thick gloves, and from him hung various amulets and chains. From his waist hung an evil looking sickle. But it was the face that frightened them. That visage startled all but the Frog, who had seen it before, and, indeed, still haunted his darkest nightmares.
It was ghostly pale, with sharp features and a pointed nose that caught the shadows in a menacing way. A look of torture and pain seemed permanently etched into the features. His purple hair was pulled tightly back and waved gently in the wind. Two long pointed ears made him seem not quite human. He looked at them with a pair of sharp eyes that seemed to glow red at the core. A strange mixture of contempt and amusement was on his face.
“It’s that stupid frog...” he mumbled, “...kissed any princesses lately?” he added with a sneer.
“Nay, I rather enjoy this form, and I owe it all to thee Magus!”
Magus scowled.
“I have something for thee!” the Frog said.
He pulled the Masamune blade from its sheath and held it out menacingly in front of him. Magus didn’t move.
“Ah, the Masamune...” he said, the contempt clearly showing in his voice. “I bet you’re just dying to use it!”
The Frog stared at the wizard, resolve etched onto his face. Crono stepped up beside the Frog and pulled out his blade. Marle likewise loaded her bow, and Lucca readied her pistol.
Magus surveyed the group calmly.
“Very well then...” he said casually reaching out into the darkness. From somewhere he produced a scythe. A huge weapon it was, at least Magus’ height. The metre long curved blade glinted darkly in the light of the altar. The shaft was black. He stood facing them cooly, his weapon held out in his right hand beside him. The dark wind seemed to grow stronger.
“The black wind begins to blow” he whispered.
He eyed them menacingly and smiled in contempt. But for a second, a mere instant, they saw something else. A glimmer of immense sadness, that was hidden the moment it appeared.
“So be it...give me your best shot...” Magus scoffed, raising his voice so that its echo filled the room.
“If you’re prepared for the void!”
With remarkable dexterity he swung the scythe into the air and sent it whirling above his head. Crono vas almost too late bringing up his sword before the scythe sliced down towards him. Magus was swift. As quickly as he had attacked, he had retreated a few metres, not running but flying through the air. The Frog jumped forward, the blade of the Masamune slashing down for Magus’ head. Yet Magus had already dodged, and the sword sent sparks up from the floor as it struck the stone. Marle’s arrow cut through the air, but the shot had been wild and, missing Magus, vanished in the distance. Meanwhile, Crono had recovered from the attack and was once more upon Magus. He dealt him a few heavy blows, but the wizard deflected them masterfully and without effort. Lucca took aim at Magus and fired. The blast hit Magus between the shoulders, but did no more than knock him down. Lucca looked at her weapon in disgust. The wizard was quick to recover, and was up in a heartbeat. But the Frog had once again pounced on him, this time catching him off his guard. The Masamune swung in a deadly arc grazing the magicians arm. Red blood flowed from the wound, though no more than a scratch. Magus fixed an evil stare on his opponent and stretched out his hand towards him. Instantaneously the darkness about Magus grew and an intangible force knocked the Frog back a dozen metres. Then he turned on the others. Marle let fly one more bolt and rushed to the Frog’s side. Crono and Lucca ran towards their foe. Magus brought up his scythe in a defensive position as Crono swung with all his might. At that instant magical flames sprang from Lucca’s hand and struck Crono’s blade. As the blade glowed and fire ran down its edges he struck full force at Magus’ weapon. The shaft of the scythe shattered under the magical attack, and Magus had to jump backward to avoid the fiery blade. Crono bore down on his enemy, thinking him defenceless. But from his side Magus had pulled the sickle. Using it to block Crono’s sword he dealt a vicious blow to his enemy with his other hand, sending Crono reeling back in agony. Magus smiled wickedly as he surveyed his foes. Crono lay doubled up on the ground, Lucca was virtually weaponless, and Marle was still trying to revive the Frog. Picking up the broken end of his scythe he hurled it at Crono with incredible force, gashing his cheek. Crono jumped up, still in pain, but necessity rallying his strength. Magus laughed.
“You fool”
---

And here, the same things, yet re-written. This should exemplify why re-writing can be seen as laudable.

That glance startled all but Glenn. For he alone of the four had seen it before... only once before. Upon the darkest of days, and still the dread eyes haunted the deep corners of his memory. The visage was sallow and pale like that of a ghost, so gaunt that the very shadows were caught in menacing ways upon his cheeks. His hair was dark, violet or blue (it could not be seen fully aright), and was allowed to fall free below his shoulders. For all accounts here was no man, but rather a mystic, even as the creatures that served him. For even his ears were sharp in an unhuman way. And the sheen of the eyes was red. Their glance was of both mockery and amusement at once. And he was tall, far beyond the measure of any of them. Six, perhaps seven feet to the crown, and with sinews of adamant. It half crossed Crono’s mind that, had he been told the fullness of this man’s presence, he should have let the others take this path alone. And even then he spoke, with a voice deep and harsh like the report of thunder in the hall:
“What is it that we have here? It is that fool of a frog. Still you remain thus: unchanged in appearance since the day I cast that semblance upon you. Have you not thrown it aside yet, base squire of a fallen knight? Have you found no princess willing to give their kiss for the spell-breaking?”
He laughed greatly at his own jest, and Crono could not figure which was the more terrible: that they were not standing in the very lair of this fabled magician, or that he laughed at their threat. If he was so without fright, then they were surely doomed.
Glenn, however, was a measure more bold. In defiance of the sorcerer’s jest, he replied:
“My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you: Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet!”
The sorcerer said naught, his wits perhaps unused to so unafraid a reply. A scowl was the only answer.
“And now see: I have something for thee!” Glenn cried, and drew from its scabbard the Masamune. With a knightly flourish he held it before him in the manner of a lord’s challenge. The sorcerer did naught at first. Then slowly came a reply.
“Ah, the Masamune,” he said, in near to a whisper. There was a measure of contempt, and perhaps even a touch of fear as he said it, but at once the former took full command, and he raised his voice to a half-disdainful laugh saying: “I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.”
Glenn returned the dire gaze of the wizard with a stern resolve; once before he had faced this dark enchanter, and then he had failed. He would see to it that a like thing would not chance again. He brandished the sword before him, and the others, at his left and right, bore ready their own array of weapons: sword and bow and flintlock pistol.
The wizard looked from one to the next, and it was plain that he was measuring the strengths and weaknesses of each. But whatever his dark mind saw, it remained hidden, and only a soft smile touched upon his lips as he said:
“Very well, then, children.”
And he reached a hand into the darkness; from the shadows he drew a weapon. It was neither sword nor spear, but rather a scythe, not unlike that which the reapers were wont to use at harvest for felling the wheat. Or, perhaps more telling, akin to the old renderings of death itself. For surely the scythe was beyond the measure of most; this wizard was taller than any of the four without doubt, but the topmost point was above the crest of his head, and the long blade shone with a silvern sheen in the unlight of the room. And at that a dark wind seemed to rise within the hall, and not one of the four felt comforted by this, for it was grim and cold, as if it were the whispers of some dread prophecy.
The wizard too felt this thing, and casting a far gaze into the darkness whispered:
“Ah, the black wind begins to blow,” and he laughed.
“So be it then, children,” he said, striking the haft twice to the ground so that the report echoed noisomely. “If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!”
With far greater skill than any reaper of the fields, the blade was hafted into the dark air. The fingers of the wizard were skilled in far more than simply spellcraft, it seemed: he bore his dread weapon with ease, turning it here and there about him as a knight at play, brandishing an arming sword. Swift, indeed. Nearly too quick for Crono, for it was only a moment’s breath later that the blade was swept for his neck, halted only by a hasty and clumsy parry.
And at that the wizard leaped back in feigned retreat, his steps hardly more than catfalls upon the earth. Or perhaps he even flew, but to judge such things was difficult, and the enchantment was heavy in the air.
“If this is to be the manner of this battle, it may go hard with us,” Glenn muttered, but drawing up his eyes cried: “Return hither, coward. But who would fault you if you should flee? A child, a cursed squire, and two maidens are a dreadful foe for any man.”
It was not well placed, maybe, but Glenn knew the report of this sorcerer well: he would ill endure any such suggestions of cowardice. His steel-shod steps were as thunder in the dark room as he came forward again.
“Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus?” He said, drawing firm his fingers about the black haft of the scythe. “Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade.”
A bolt off Marle’s crossbow sung a path through the air. A coward’s stroke, maybe, yet when one combats so dark a lord as this, who can judge fairness? But it was to little avail regardless: it was wild and vanished in the dark.
The Masamune leaped, and the sorcerer parried, sparking as its failed stroke met the ground. Glenn spoke a low prayer, and struck again, swifter and more fell than before. But though it was true, whatever blood ran through the veins of this foe was that of a master warrior. The holy sword missed its mark yet again, and in return the wizard dealt a heavy stroke of his hand across Glenn’s face. The strap broke and his helm flew from his head; he himself faltered to the earth, his eyes in a swoon. Perilous, to be certain, for the scythe was ready for blood and singing a high note through the air already, but Crono was there at once to hold off the blow, and Glenn was saved.
“Ah, a swift one, I see,” the wizard laughed. “Do so again, and I will strike off the hand that foils my blow. Kimtos!”
And at that word, Crono was thrown to the earth and backward further than a score of paces. He rose wearily, wondering at what this was. If it was sorcery, it was potent beyond anything he had thought possible. What was this sorcerer, now? Man or demon, or a mingling of demon in the guise of a man?
Now, all this while, Lucca had stood her ground, with an eyes of watching only, waiting for a moment in which to make a fell stroke. Now, as the sorcerer stood over Glenn with an eye for death, she deemed it had come. A tongue of fire leaped from the barrel of her gun. A masterful shot, too, for it found its mark at the heart. But whatever armour this man bore beneath his sable robes, it held true. He turned his eyes upon her with a laugh.
“So you make your move in this game, then? And with what an array of arms? Cunningly constructed, I think, but holding no strength against the armoury of the ancient world. Know this of me...”
Glenn rose, and whatever more the wizard was minded to say were silenced. Twin blows were traded, and he fell back a pace.
“Hold your peace, squire!”
Whatever sorcery had assaulted Crono now worked its spell upon Glenn, only thrice as strong. He was overcome in a half-moment, and struck heavily to the stone ground. Marle, with an ever-compassionate heart, leaped to his side, and fought to work her subtle sigaldry upon him.
And even as she turned aside, Crono and Lucca made essay to strike down the dark one for the last. Crono’s blade was flourished swiftly, across to one side and then to the other; Lucca, by her arts and learning spoke short words of command, in the near-forgotten tongue of an ancient realm: “Rotha achos!”
The flames that leaped from her fingertips were perilous indeed, and they caught themselves upon the keen blade-edge of Crono’s sword.
“What is this?” the wizard muttered, scarcely heard above the clamour of the flames. “A child of learning to know that tongue, indeed; sooth, it shall not avail against me!”
But even so it was that, when Crono came upon the sorcerer, his sword was whelmed in flames. Twice, three times he struck. At the fourth the wizard’s black-hafted scythe shattered, and with a certain measure of plain alarm, he retreated a pace from the child’s deft assault. And then Crono erred: he thought the sorcerer defenceless, and pressed forward what he thought to be the final attack. But catching at the ruined blade of the scythe in his left, and drawing from his side a sickle in his right, his foe was full prepared. A great rending of steel sounded in the hall, and Crono faltered, his weapon wrested from his grip.
Magus shut fast his eyes and cast out a hand. At once a darkness, like to a wave or sudden gale wind, leaped from the nothingness, and whelmed in about Crono and Lucca. To their hearts it was as though a freezing terror had taken hold of them, and their eyes were darkened to all light. In that moment, they almost despaired of all life, for such was the great wizard’s power that even their heroic will could not contend with his dark sigaldry. But it passed even at the brink, and they faltered with a mingling of keen relief and fear to their knees. For certainly they were freed from the mighty spell, but worse there was: their limbs were weakened so that they could make no trial at defence, and Magus came with heavy steel paces before them, drawing high his blade for a single death-swath. Surely they would have died even then, but from the far length of the room, a swift arrow was loosed: Marle had arisen again, with Glenn at her side. The arrow wound a straight and fell path through the air and halting fast in the armour of the sorcerer.

teh Schala

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2005, 01:12:12 am »
Haven't heard of that book...

About conveying something a character just plain can't see...either you hint at it, or you leave it out.  What are you wanting to communicate that can't be seen?  If you're wanting to be in Schala's POV but still have Janus' little pacing and stuff beforehand (since that's something she can't see), you can start in Schala's mind as she goes through the palace toward Janus' room, and she can be anticipating what he's probably doing in there.  (She is his older sister, after all...  It's easy to believe that she can predict him like that.)  As for the thoughts regarding the Mammon Machine, some of these can actually be Schala's own thoughts, as she reviews in her mind things that Janus may have told her previously.

Yes, if Janus is the only one in the room, and you start the scene in his room, then he's the POV character...unless you're telling it through Alfador's POV!  In which case, not much of the dialogue would be understandable.  Anyway...here's the outline of how the scene would go if you want to start in Janus' POV and then follow Schala out...

--Janus' POV
  Pacing the room, thinking about dream.  Schala walks in.  Conversation between Janus and Schala.  Schala leaves.  Section break.
--Schala's POV
  Start with Schala closing the door and starts walking down the hall to wherever she's going.

OK, that's the only change in POV that I'm talking about.  Before you write the scene, you just need to know whose POV you want to be in.  In scenes where it's very important to have the emotions and thoughts of BOTH characters, you have to decide before you start writing which is more important...and if they're both equally important, then go with the POV of the character who is in the location first (in this case, Janus) so that we don't miss any action there.  Then when the next character (Schala) enters, communicate her actions by mentioning what Janus NOTICES that communicate her feelings to HIM.  When she says "It'll be okay," does he notice that she sounds like a bad liar?  This would be a good way to say she's lying.  Simply make him a bit suspicious of her words.

In a particular scene in my book, I basically had an angel disguised as a human, transforming into her true "angel" form in front of a human.  In this case, it was VERY important for me to show the human's feelings and reactions, and I had to keep the visual spectacle of the angel's transformation.  In addition, she had to speak for a brief moment in her native tongue, which the human didn't understand, but I needed to make sure the reader did.  That scene was a Point-Of-View deathtrap.  The way I solved it:

I decided that his emotions were more important than the angel's, so I started in the human's POV.  He enters the scene, they speak for a few minutes, she begins to float into the air and transform.  When she speaks in her native language, I worked around that by saying that "although he didn't know the words, Todd felt like the message came through clearly into his mind nonetheless," or something like that, and then I just put in what she had said.  That was the only smooth way to break POV there.  Afterward, I mainly focused on his reactions to everything he was seeing and being told, and anytime I needed to convey an emotion of the angel, I did so through her voice and facial expressions.

Sorry for rambling.  I'm trying to get you to understand what I mean here.  I'm tellin' ya, that's just industry standard...it helps keep the book more structured and well-formed instead of randomly hopping around and such.  Try it for a while and you'll see what I mean.  I agree that it can be nasty to work with at first, but it soon gets fun. :)

V_Translanka

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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2005, 01:49:39 am »
Well, I still don't like that idea...It seems limiting.

Also, you haven't heard of Strunk & White's The Elements of Style??? Or...wait...do you mean Stephen King & Peter Straub's The Black House (sequal to The Talisman)?

teh Schala

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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2005, 02:54:30 am »
Neither.

I know it sounds limiting, and IT IS.  Trust me, just try it.  It helps to keep you from going off and describing every random thing in excrutiating detail, a habit I constantly have to keep in check.  As I said, it holds the book into a better "form" by focusing on one "mind" at a time, if you will.

Also, now that I'm at home (the above posts were while I was at work and was VERY limited in internet access), I can point you to some stuff...

http://anitraweb.org/kalliope/pov.html
In this link, you'll find the following:
Quote
There are basically three different styles to the third person POV. You can limit yourself to what any external observer could see of the situation; "Danny and Joe slowly tossed the baseball back and forth in the summer heat." You can, as in the excerpt from Bebe Campbell, describe the view from behind one character's eyes, including their thoughts and emotions: "Every time Danny tossed the ball back he hoped that Joe would finally say 'That's it, let's go get a drink.'" Or you may choose to be an omniscient narrator, dipping behind the eyes of all characters. After Danny's observation, you could say, "Every time Danny slowly lobbed the baseball back, Joe wished he'd put some fire into it. They were never going to win a game this way. The nerd was probably hoping he'd call the practice and go for drinks."

The temptation of most writers is to tell the reader everything that all characters are feeling. The irony is, this distances most readers from the story. Describing dialogue, facial expression and action, then letting the readers figure out the thoughts & emotions themselves, makes the readers feel more involved in the story.

The effect of switching POV too often has been called "POV whiplash."
...Or "Head Hopping" as my editor says.  I'll add more references like this for you in a little bit.

EDIT: However, as you'll see in this link, the rule is not set in stone.  Read that page of the forum in detail.  The user mspatric sums things up quite nicely:

Quote from: mspatric
Head hopping = Third person omnipresent view

Also known as "the narrator is GOD"= knows what everyone in a scene is thinking/doing.

It's actually a very common technique used in novels of every genre. It was taught in my English classes in middle and high school, and it is accepted as a proper literary technique. Orson Scott Card and several other famous authors use it all the time.

The most vital rule is that each seperate sentence/paragraph should deal with what one character is thinking. The one POV per scene rule was expanded from that, but it is not written in stone.

This POV is often used just to save time so the author doesn't have to go into graphic detail to you show you that one character hates/loves/whatever another. They can just say "XXX lied to the captain because he/she hated ensign YYY with every...". Some readers like this, while others prefer to discover the emotion by judging a character's actions.

Some publishers will publish it, others won't. Publishers think they know what their readers like/dislike, and act accordingly.

I usually write in this view, though I have started restricting the POV to one person per scene lately. It's nice to try new things.

This POV is probably best used for massive stories, like space operas and epic fantasy, or where the focus is not on one character. Why are the aliens attacking? Why do the various factions act the way they do?

Good old sword-and-sorcery and other types probably benefit better from only seeing the world through the main character's eyes.
   
Remember:

There are different focuses to stories (all have these, but focus on them differently). Most of you have already learned these in writing classes/books/groups/whatever, but his a general review:

Character
Worried about the party or one character and how they change/face a situation. Reader needs to become attached to (or despise in case of villains) the character.

Milieu
Takes you to another place/time and focuses on describing it to you. Omnipresent very common so you can vividly picture the world and the mindsets of its inhabitants.

Idea
Some idea/concept must be discovered (sometimes the moral of the story).

Event
Some great event happens and must be dealt with. Omnipresent very common, since event affects many lives and usually reshapes the world.

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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2005, 03:32:52 am »
Well that makes more sense...I do it in this scene because I think it's important to and also because it's a single scene, which is actually a flashback/memory in my fanfic...Now, I could have restricted it to Janus, thusly making sense since it's his memory, but I wanted to expand because Schala isn't a 'big' character in my story and thusly wanted to show readers what she's thinking and what she thought about Janus. I don't think I did it a lot in that scene, nor do I think it's confusing as long as it's made clear who's doing/thinking what.

And, while I can overlook not having read The Black House (it's no The Talisman anyways...)...Every writer should give a quick glancing over (ok, they should read it in-depth, happy?) of The Elements of Style. It's one of the most concise (under a 100 pgs!) writer's guides on the planet.

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2005, 03:57:51 am »
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie

In a particular scene in my book, I basically had an angel disguised as a human, transforming into her true "angel" form in front of a human.  In this case, it was VERY important for me to show the human's feelings and reactions, and I had to keep the visual spectacle of the angel's transformation.  In addition, she had to speak for a brief moment in her native tongue, which the human didn't understand, but I needed to make sure the reader did.  That scene was a Point-Of-View deathtrap.


Could you not have left the language unknown to his ears? That is, personally, how I would have solved it. I toss in little phrases like 'es diom kuro, es diom ander' and the like into my writing, but don't explain them. I usually figure other languages are more part of the setting and ambience, a way to make the world feel realistic, than part of the plot proper.

Anyway, you keep mentioning your 'editor'. Are you a writer?

teh Schala

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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2005, 01:53:44 am »
Yes, I am.

In the case of the foreign language, what had happened is that the angel (Jullinar) had her hand over the human's (Todd's) eyes and was about to show him the spiritual realm of the world, that is, all angels and demons would be visible to him for the next minute or two.  When the covered his eyes, the idea was for her to pray, saying something like "Lord, please open this man's eyes and show him what You see here."  Then she takes her hand away from his eyes and he can see all kinds of interesting stuff.

Leaving it in foreign language would have made it seem like she was casting a spell of some kind, which I wanted to avoid.  I had other reasons as well, but that's the short story. :)

Daniel, how much of CT did you write with that expanded dialogue?  I loved it.  In fact I'm about to insert your expanded dialogue into that scene in my ROM.  That was just too cool. :)  If you have more, I'd love to see it, maybe in a PM or email or something.  Let me know please.

Zaperking

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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2005, 06:56:07 am »
Lol, A debate about a fanfic.

Jake-A-Roonie, I acctually thought your beginning story was good. But I didn't really get where it was coming from, the dream I mean. First I thought it was about Zeal, then the monster that was upside down Oo Lavos? But at the end of the dream, the part about the emerald spires and the girl with blood, was that Marle?

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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2005, 12:25:10 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Lol, A debate about a fanfic.

Jake-A-Roonie, I acctually thought your beginning story was good. But I didn't really get where it was coming from, the dream I mean. First I thought it was about Zeal, then the monster that was upside down Oo Lavos? But at the end of the dream, the part about the emerald spires and the girl with blood, was that Marle?


From what I got, it was Zeal at first, then it morphed into the Ocean Palace incident. The girl could have been Malre or Ayla, but from how he wrote Crono's emotion towards the battered body I think it was Marle.

teh Schala

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2005, 02:21:49 pm »
Yes, it was Zeal Palace, then it transformed into Lavos.  I described Lavos kind of strange because I was going through Crono's point of view, so I tried to put it how he might say it.  At first I used the term "dome," but Crono wouldn't have seen a "dome" before, so I figured that he might say it looked like an upside-down bowl.

Yes, the girl is Marle.

The emerald spires...  Ah, you mean the spikes...  Yeah, those are the spikes all over Lavos.

And if you mean the other spires, on Zeal Palace...the way I described the color of the palace, I wanted to faintly hint that the whole place was made of Dreamstone (hence the stone glowing red at certain angles).

Thanks for the compliments, I really appreciate it. :)

Daniel Krispin

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2005, 09:04:49 pm »
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
Yes, I am.


Wow. I hope to some day accomplish enough to have something published, for which I asked - though at the speed I write, and considering that I wish to make it as good as I may, it will likely be upward of a decade from now. But anyway, how hard is it to have something published?


Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie

Daniel, how much of CT did you write with that expanded dialogue?  I loved it.  In fact I'm about to insert your expanded dialogue into that scene in my ROM.  That was just too cool. :)  If you have more, I'd love to see it, maybe in a PM or email or something.  Let me know please.


Of that sort? Only so much as you saw. Its origin lies back when I attempted to write a CT novelization, oh, three or so years ago. I gave that up shortly after beginning, and started writing my CT/CC fanfiction/sequel, Twilight of Fate, which I finally was able to finish just last October after two years of writing. I think it was while I was attempting to write some menial essay or another for a class two semesters ago (I think it was EngG 463, come to think of it, which would be about designing heatings systems: horribly boring. I failed it, too) that I happened upon that old manuscript, and attempted to update it to something in a more current style of mine. That second updated one was the result. I never went back and did any more of that, though. I've moved on to writing my own stories - or attempting it - and so left behind most of those things. So, no, I never wrote any more actual things directly from the Chrono Trigger story in that form. Although, I suppose, that is the form of dialogue I near always attempt to use nowadays (and, actually, comes most naturally to me.)

Anyway, it means a lot to me for someone to say that they liked something in my writing like that, as I'm bloody insecure about it all, continually doubting my abilities on the matter. So, thank-you.

teh Schala

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2005, 09:52:19 pm »
You're bloody welcome. :)

Yes, I actually DID insert that into my ROM, though I did make a small change here and there...  What did I change?  Ah, here we are.  On the part where you put:

Magus: Ah, the Masamune. I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.

I did think it was strange that Magus would say "I reckon."  I pictured him spitting right before saying it!  And I'm from Texas! :lol:  So right there, I inserted the part where he talks about who he is.  So now, in-game, it says:

Frog: My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you (I think I changed this to "Verily, sorcerer, I mock thee"): Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet!  And now see: I have something for thee!
Magus: Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus? Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade.  Ah, the black wind begins to blow... So be it then, children. If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!

Anyway, it comes out pretty well in the game. :)  I had to change the timing for that since it automatically advances the text, and I had to change when the music starts...but other than that, it rocks. :)

On the subject of publishing, getting things published is a little skill, a lot of luck.  The "skill" comes not just in your writing, but in knowing what your target publisher is looking for.  You need to know everything about them...what kind of style they want, desired length, how they like their coffee, EVERYTHING.  How?  Writer's Market.

As a Christian author, I use the Christian Writer's Market Guide, and I think mine is year 2003.  It has a comprehensive list of publishers for different genres, magazine publishers, agents and agencies, it's just chock-full of great info.  On the publishers, it has a list of data that the publisher has filled out...  Usually it includes what genre(s) they publish, desired length, how many books they publish a year, what percentage of published books are first-time authors, average number of copies for first print, whether they offer reprints if your book is wildly successful, how they prefer for you to contact them (VERY useful!), how long they take to respond, and other comments.

Well, my writing usually gets compared to that of Frank Peretti -- a fairly well-known Christian fiction author -- and so that's the style I market myself with when a publisher asks what my style is like.  I tell them I am told that I write like Frank Peretti.  Well ironically, I found a publisher while skimming in the Writer's Market that said in its comments, "Looking for the next Frank Peretti."  I checked to see how they say to contact them, and it said e-query.  I wrote up an e-query letter (if you don't know, query letters are just brief notes that say "I'm writing a book in this genre for this target audience, would you be interested?") and fired it off.  2 weeks later, they emailed me back and said "Send us a sample."

Long story short, we started working together, they gave me a list of editors to talk to and choose from, I "interviewed" several and chose one, and am now working with her on getting my book polished up and ready to go. :)

If I end up going with this publisher, just know it's *SO* rare to get accepted by your very first publisher!  I sent out a couple of other e-query letters at the same time to other publishers, and I STILL haven't heard back from them!  That was more than 6 months ago!  But just keep after it.

You seen the movie Hitch?  "ANYtime, ANYwhere, ANY man has the chance to sweep ANY woman off her feet.  Just gotta have the right broom."  Same deal with publishers.  Long as you know what you're doing, it'll come to you eventually.

Daniel Krispin

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CT - Opening - a sample of my writing :P
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2005, 01:35:20 am »
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
You're bloody welcome. :)

Yes, I actually DID insert that into my ROM, though I did make a small change here and there...  What did I change?  Ah, here we are.  On the part where you put:

Magus: Ah, the Masamune. I reckon that you’re just dying to use it, fool.

I did think it was strange that Magus would say "I reckon."  I pictured him spitting right before saying it!  And I'm from Texas! :lol:  So right there, I inserted the part where he talks about who he is.  So now, in-game, it says:

Frog: My form is not without some measure of good. Indeed, I rather enjoy it, at whiles. See, now, sorcerer, I mock you (I think I changed this to "Verily, sorcerer, I mock thee"): Magus of shadows, I shall turn this curse crossways yet!  And now see: I have something for thee!
Magus: Do you wish so greatly for death, squire of Cyrus? Do you know the power of this one you face, or are you drawn to doom by some evil chance of fate, like so many others? Know that I am Magus of the Mystics, Asarel ar Asant Medina. Hold to your bravery, if you wish, but know that I fear neither you nor your enchanted blade.  Ah, the black wind begins to blow... So be it then, children. If you wish my blood, do so to the best of your skill. But be mindful, for only Hades awaits you!


Sounds Texan? You know, I had not truly thought of that. I shall have to watch that from now onward... ah, good, I only use it only three times in my existing manuscript for my writing. I hadn't realized quite how it sounds to another. To me it was just a way of lightening what might otherwise be heavy speech and dialogue.

Oh, by the way, Asarel ar Asant Medina means nothing more than Lord of the East and Master of Medina. Asar (or Azar in some dialects) is East, and El is (which I borrowed from Hebrew) lord (in real this figures in as God into my very own name Daniel, 'God has vindicated me/God is my judge' - a very nice name, I think, that combines both Law and Gospel, depending on translation. Figures into Bethel, too, and a host of other names.)



Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie

On the subject of publishing, getting things published is a little skill, a lot of luck.  The "skill" comes not just in your writing, but in knowing what your target publisher is looking for.  You need to know everything about them...what kind of style they want, desired length, how they like their coffee, EVERYTHING.  How?  Writer's Market.

As a Christian author, I use the Christian Writer's Market Guide, and I think mine is year 2003.  It has a comprehensive list of publishers for different genres, magazine publishers, agents and agencies, it's just chock-full of great info.  On the publishers, it has a list of data that the publisher has filled out...  Usually it includes what genre(s) they publish, desired length, how many books they publish a year, what percentage of published books are first-time authors, average number of copies for first print, whether they offer reprints if your book is wildly successful, how they prefer for you to contact them (VERY useful!), how long they take to respond, and other comments.

Well, my writing usually gets compared to that of Frank Peretti -- a fairly well-known Christian fiction author -- and so that's the style I market myself with when a publisher asks what my style is like.  I tell them I am told that I write like Frank Peretti.  Well ironically, I found a publisher while skimming in the Writer's Market that said in its comments, "Looking for the next Frank Peretti."  I checked to see how they say to contact them, and it said e-query.  I wrote up an e-query letter (if you don't know, query letters are just brief notes that say "I'm writing a book in this genre for this target audience, would you be interested?") and fired it off.  2 weeks later, they emailed me back and said "Send us a sample."

Long story short, we started working together, they gave me a list of editors to talk to and choose from, I "interviewed" several and chose one, and am now working with her on getting my book polished up and ready to go. :)

If I end up going with this publisher, just know it's *SO* rare to get accepted by your very first publisher!  I sent out a couple of other e-query letters at the same time to other publishers, and I STILL haven't heard back from them!  That was more than 6 months ago!  But just keep after it.

You seen the movie Hitch?  "ANYtime, ANYwhere, ANY man has the chance to sweep ANY woman off her feet.  Just gotta have the right broom."  Same deal with publishers.  Long as you know what you're doing, it'll come to you eventually.


Frank Peretti... let me check that... hmm... I thought I'd heard of him before. I read one of his books, or most of one, a very, very long time ago.

Unfortunately I don't know who I write like. I think I was influenced by Tolkien to some degree, though I long since ceased attempting to purposefully emulate his style to a large extent and rather chose to be influenced by multiple sources (thankfully, as I think it would be near impossible, not to mention foolish, to actually attempt to write specifically like someone else.) But things here and there influence me, and certain sentence and paragraph forms are borrowed from the Iliad, from the Bible (both for the occasional stylistic element, and for such things as theology), and so forth (say, the extended simile form of the Iliad caught me the other day, and I made use of it once.) The style overall is, well, me, and I don't know who else writes like this (or, as is more likely, it is difficult for me to analyze my own writing in comparison.) Very often I go formal (or, I think it's formal. Not exactly what you'd call colloquial or maybe even natural speech), and I very much adore the style of myth and legend and the old epics that spring from them. Furthermore, I think I may have the problem of being too religious in the writer for some secular people, and not enough for the more Christan book-form. How Tolkien was able to walk his fine line is always such a wonder. A philosopher that held to the deepest Christian morals and beliefs, yet hid them in such a subtle way that they are apparent not overtly, but wind their way into one's mind with the air of old legend. But anyway, I'm rambling: I may run into trouble describing its style, when the time comes.

Thank you very much for the information, that is incredibly useful to know. I will keep that in mind if I ever try to publish anything (although, as I have said, it may well be a decade before I finish it and/or mature enough in writing and plot-forming to make something publishable.)

But anyway, so you are essentially saying know your publisher, then leave it to persistance and luck? I'll keep that in mind when the time comes. Thanks again.

teh Schala

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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2005, 03:01:53 am »
If it was a "very, very long time ago," you may have read Piercing The Darkness or This Present Darkness, both of which are about spiritual warfare and are the specific books my writing is compared to.

Back when I was about 10 or so, I read some children's books he had written, but I have not read any of Peretti's work since, nor do I intend to.

That's actually part of the reason why I just don't read much anymore.  People tell you to read, read, read, so you can be influenced by all these writers...but you know, I tend to borrow too easily and too obviously, and so now that I have developed my style into my own unique "brand" of writing, I actually avoid reading others so that I don't end up coming off as a "Nora Roberts clone" or whatever...not that I'm interested in her books anyway. =P

But yeah, just keep after it with your publishers.  What I did to start, once I had my Writer's Market book, I looked at the list of genres, decided on 2 or 3 genres my book would fit into, and then I went through and highlighted all the publishers that did stuff in that genre, asking myself these questions as I went.

Does this publisher accept first-time authors?
If so, what percentage of books are from first-timers?
How many books do they publish a year?
Do they offer reprints?
Does my book fit their desired length, within 100 pages or so?
How do I contact them?

There are probably a couple other important ones too, but those stood out in my mind.  With the publisher I'm working with now, I told them straight-up that I am not close to being done with the book yet, and that when I AM done, it may well be double their page requirement.  They seemed okay with that.

Once I used those questions and made a list of the publishers I was interested in, I wrote up e-queries to those that preferred e-queries.  I put the ones that require a literary agency on the back burner for the time being, since I don't have an agent and haven't felt like getting one until a little later.  Other forms of contact, like snailmail, also went on the back burner.  Luckily, as you know, I got a positive response from the first one I emailed. :)