Author Topic: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread  (Read 2900 times)

utunnels

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Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« on: March 07, 2010, 10:34:11 pm »
If anyone knows some already existed formulas, please let me know. I'd like to make a collection. :)
Anyway I'm investigating them at a slow pace.

Player weapon damage to enemy

Code: [Select]
weak=((str+2)*(100-f)*wp - (def+2)*400)*10/20000*c/1000
medium=((str+2)*(100-f)*wp - (def+2)*400)*25/20000*c/1000
heavy=((str+2)*(100-f)*wp - (def+2)*400)*40/20000*c/1000

This formula shows raw damage, it doesn't consider abnormal status and innate colors.
Each step should return an integer value, for example 2.7 should be 2.
str: Attacker's strength
f: It is a semi-random value, differs among weapons, explain later.
wp: Weapon damage, include bonus from accessories like Dragoon Gauntlet
def: Target's defense
c: Color multiplier, it has a base value of 1125 and follows a rule shown in the table below

c value   665 750 875 1000 1125 1250 1375 1500 1500 1500
points   -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
Points rules:
1. A field color cirlce has same color as attacker, +1
2. A field color circle has opposite color as attacker, -1
3. Target and attacker have same color, -1
4. Target and attacker have opposite color, 0,  but total damage will be multiplied by 1.5
5. Field color circle, target and attacker have same color, color circle will have no effect. For example, if target and attacker are both red, red color circle will have no effect, but rule 2-4 still work.

f is a value determine the percentage between max damage and min damage. You can find it in this thread: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,8294.0.html. For example, Serge's weapons have a value of 20%, then f will be a value between 0 and 20.

However, f is not completely random,  it cycles in a pre-generated random array. (str+2)*(100-f)*wp is a loop, the result is increased by (100*wp - f*wp) in every step, totally (str+2) times. So a weapon can NEVER deal its max damage.

The part before *c/1000 has a minimum value  (wp-4)/2, which means even if the enemy has high defense and you have poor strength, the damage is at least (wp-4)*5/8.


Weapon based tech damage

Code: [Select]
damage=((str+2)*(100-f)*wp - (def+2)*400)*atk/20000*c/1000
It is almost same as normal weapon attack.
atk: tech damage multiplier, it is not shown in stats window, however. For example, Serge's Dash & Slash has a value of 60.
c: Color multiplier, it has a base value of 1000 and follows a rule shown in the table below

value   665 750 875 1000 1125 1250 1375 1500 1500 1500
points   -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
Points rules:
1. Caster and element have same color: +1
2. Caster and element have opposite color: -1
3. A field color circle has same color as the element: +1
4. A field color circle has opposite color as the element: -1
5. Element color is same as the target: -1
6. Element color is opposite as the target: 0, but total damage will be multiplied by 1.5
7. Field color doesn't affect points if it is same as the target and the element, but rule 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 still work
For example, if the target and element are both red, red color circles will have no effect.

Element damage

Code: [Select]
damage=((mag+3)*(100-f)*e-(mdef+2)*500)*(1000+v*125)/400000*c/1000*(100+r)/100
mag: Caster's magic power, plus equipment bonus.
f: Like weapon based damage, f is a semi-random value. It is 20 for most elements.
e: Element's damage
mdef: Target's magic defense
v: grid level - element level, for example, liftup +7, photonbeam -2...
r: a random value between 0 and 5
c: Color multiplier, same rules as above

Healing

Code: [Select]
HP=(rawmag+2)*(100-f)*e/400*(1000+v*125)/1000rawmag: Caster's magic but NOT including bonus from equipment

There may be more behind the formula, but as far as I know field color doesn't affect it.


Dual/Tripple Techs

Weapon based:
 Like each character performs the attack separately and then add the results up.

Element attack:
 Same as normal element , but tech only uses magic power of the one who chooses the command.


Weapon Hit%

Code: [Select]
In battle:
weak = acc/3 + wpacc*2/3 - evd
medium = 50/3 + wpacc*2/3 - evd
heavy = 20/3 + wpacc*2/3 - evd
acc: ACC showed in character stats and equipment menu.
wpacc: Weapon accuracy, it is not listed in the encyclopedia directly, but better weapons usually have better values.
evd: Target evade rate.

After a weak attack, all 3 values are increased, the increment is:
Code: [Select]
weak = (102-currentweak)*30/100
medium = (102-currentmedium)*25/100
heavy = (103-currentheavy)*20/100
1 medium attack = 3 weak attacks
1 heavy attack = 7 weak attacks

I've no idea about the Hit% value shown in equipment menu. It is different from all three above and is not used in battle at all.
From the formula we can see heavy and medium have nothing to do with character ACC value, so a heavy attack usually misses if you start with it.


Status effect lasting time

Code: [Select]
time=c*s - 1
c: It is usually 3, depends on which status it is.
s: Character based value. For example, Guile has a greater value than most characters.

Resistance Ring: It will reduce s[/b by 1.
Resistance Belt:  It will reduce s[/b by 2.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 12:24:15 am by utunnels »

chi_z

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 11:16:13 pm »
this would be very handy if someone wanted to make their own battle system in rpgmaker, nice job so far man. can't say I know of the formulas used when innate and attributes are taken into account, perhaps it's hinted at in Ultimania?

utunnels

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 03:59:35 am »
BTW, weapon damage includes bonus from accessories. For example, Dragoon Gauntlet +3.
-------

Updated weapon based tech damage formula.

-----

Updated raw element damage.

--------

Element and physical attack formula almost completed


----------------

New goal:

Test Pip's pounce+4


It seems +4 has no effect to physical attack, hmm

--------------------

Weapon hit% added.

Kodokami

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 12:14:03 am »
Element damage

Code: [Select]
damage=((mag+3)*(100-f)*e-(mdef+2)*500)*(1000+v*125)/400000*c/1000*(100+r)/100
mag: Caster's magic power, plus equipment bonus.
f: Like weapon based damage, f is a semi-random value. It is 20 for most elements.
e: Element's damage
mdef: Target's magic defense
v: grid level - element level, for example, liftup +7, photonbeam -2...
r: a random value between 0 and 5
c: Color multiplier, same rules as above

Can this formula (including the others) be used to determine the optimum placement for Elements on the grid? For example, would Meteorite still do more damage on grid level 1 than Photon Ray on the same grid level?

Perhaps I will do some in-game testing to prove my theory.

utunnels

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 12:41:46 am »
Yeah, a level 1 element can be stronger than a level 4 element if you place it in the level 4 grid.


BTW, there's another thread on gamefaqs board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/196917-chrono-cross/55191996
And the author had already done more detailed researches.

I should have waited for few months and stolen his work.  :P
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 12:44:15 am by utunnels »

chi_z

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 10:42:53 am »
well with that equation, theoretically won't people be able to recreate the entire cross battle system in rpg maker?

chapapote

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 12:20:20 pm »
Damn, we should add this info to the encyclopedia here.

Very good. The only thing missing would be the base power of elements.

tushantin

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 11:31:52 pm »
I should have waited for few months and stolen his work.  :P
"And we would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling copyright issues and their bumbling dog!"  :P

Kodokami

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Re: Cross Battle Mechanics Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 01:36:02 pm »
I decided to come back to this because it was bugging me that I never did that testing. I took Serge to Lizard Rock and fought against Opah Fish, plotting how much damage white elements did at differing grid levels. There might be errors since the game I used only had Serge level 48. I need to try again with level 99, and more characters.

The results are kind of disappointing. A naturally higher level element will always deal more damage than a naturally lower level one. For example, Meteorite (a level 2 element) will do more damage on grid one than PhotonRay (a level 1 element) also on grid one, but the reverse is not true; Meteorite on grid two will still do more damage than Photon Ray also on grid two. Multi-hit elements, like MeteorShower (Lv4), should be more powerful* than its immediate predecessor (PhotonBeam, Lv3), but testing showed they are slightly less powerful. However, the difference is negligible considering the attack hits all enemies.

Tech skills are appear to be weaker, but that may vary between characters. For Serge, Dash&Slash is stronger than PhotonBeam (and even MeteorShower), but a higher level element (say, HolyLight) placed on the same grid beats it out. This may be simply because Dash&Slash is a physical tech, unlike his other techs which are magical and weaker than their equal level element counterparts (HolyLight is better than Luminaire).

I also tested some healing elements (not all) and there does appear to be an hierarchy there as well. I'll return to testing here, but I did notice that, unlike damaging elements, healing elements do not use the field grid. That means their potential is based of the user's magic (and possibly innate element too).

Anyway, I'll come back to this soon, compare to utunnels' and others' work.

tl;dr
Higher Level Element > Lower Level Element