Author Topic: What determines a rewrite or a split?  (Read 6470 times)

Duke Serkol

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What determines a rewrite or a split?
« on: September 05, 2011, 08:27:41 pm »
Thanks to both this site and board, I think I now understand most of the temporal mechanics in the games... there's only one thing that still bugs me.

Why is it that whenever Crono and the others changed the future, the timeline was (supposedly) just written over/altered (with the old one dumped in the DBT), while when Schala intervened to save Serge the timeline split into two ongoing parallel worlds?

What makes that particular alteration to the timeline different and causes this? Was an explanation for that ever found?

It's not even that he was saved differently in one of the two worlds (like say, they managed to get to Marbule and cure him), because we know Lynx existed in both worlds, so in both worlds they ran into Shcala's storm and reached the Frozen Flame.
So technicly, it's not that one of the two worlds continued as it should have, neither of the two is the original Schala-intervention-free timeline.

And on that same note, why did her later intervention (through future!Kid?) to again save him (in only one of those worlds) not cause another split but instead make the relative Chronopolis implode into becoming the dead sea? (I know why the future destruction in 1999 is restored, but why does it show up there like that along with stuff from a peaceful 2400? Did the Time Devourer hurl?)

It looks like anytime Schala does anything somewhat resembling Crono's ordinary activities the timeline has a seizure.

And while I'm at that... why would Schala care to help Serge out of all children that happened to fall ill and die throughout the time continuum?

These questions really bug me...

alfadorredux

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 10:18:00 pm »
The split was All Belthasar's Fault--or at least, the simplest explanation is that he did something to prevent a normal overwrite from taking place, because he needed the split universe to produce the Chrono Cross.

As for Why Serge... Well, if it hadn't been him, we would just have had a slightly different game that involved following Fred from Choras around. :lol:

Duke Serkol

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 10:52:42 pm »
The split was All Belthasar's Fault--or at least, the simplest explanation is that he did something to prevent a normal overwrite from taking place, because he needed the split universe to produce the Chrono Cross.
Ah, that's a good answer... and yet another reason for me to feel that this game could greatly benefit from a rewrite.
Honestly I hadn't thought of that. my best guess was that it could be because Schala was already one with the Time Devourer and this somehow made her interference different.
Still, you have to wonder how Belthasar may have pulled that one off.

As for Why Serge... Well, if it hadn't been him, we would just have had a slightly different game that involved following Fred from Choras around. :lol:
Uh... I was hoping for something more poignant. But then, again, my best guess would be that Schala and Serge are starcrossed and she could feel that..?

Kodokami

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 11:25:59 pm »
Could be simply an easter egg, but Chronopolis reveals an excerpt from the Radical Dreamers timeline, which we know has Serge and Kid ending up together. Belthasar may have considered this possibility for his own timeline.

Duke Serkol

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 11:33:39 pm »
So what you are suggesting is that already in the timeline the existed between the death of Lavos and the one we have in Chrono Cross, Schala may have saved Serge and created a duplicate to be with him?
And that knowing this, Belthasar intervened (changing the past before the event of the storm, forcing Schala to act again) to make it so that Schala's action caused a split instead of a rewrite?

Kodokami

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 12:54:06 am »
I was answering your "why pick Serge" question, actually. :P Radical Dreamers is unrelated (temporally) to Chrono Cross. However, Belthasar may have used magic and/or FATE to spy into and/or postulate other dimensions (i.e. Radical Dreamers) for a way to save Schala, and seeing the relationship between Kid and Serge may have provoked Belthasar to use the Serge from his timeline as the catalyst for Project Kid. Or it could just be an easter egg.

As for how the dimensions actually split... No idea. Maybe a faulty Time Egg or something. Alfadorredux seems to have a good answer. But we know it either happened during the Time Crash, at 1006 AG, or 1010 AG.

Duke Serkol

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 09:03:15 am »
Radical Dreamers is unrelated (temporally) to Chrono Cross.
How do we know that? All the game says on that recording is:
   This seems to be an archive
   from a different time than
   our own.
   Aside from the two worlds
   we already know about,
   other worlds and times
   may also exist...

Leaving the possibility open that it could be either a different world or a different timeline.

It does seem like a legitimate theory that Schala created Kid as an escape attempt first, met Serge as per Radical Dreamers and then when time was rewritten and he was not to survive intervened to save him. I agree. But seeing as the event of a split appears to be a rare occurrance and cause severe instability, I would think it more likely that Radical Dreamers was a rewritten timeline (besides, if it wasn't why would it receive consirable less attention in Chronopolis? ...though it could be explained if there was no Chronopolis in that one)

As for how the dimensions actually split... No idea. Maybe a faulty Time Egg or something. Alfadorredux seems to have a good answer. But we know it either happened during the Time Crash, at 1006 AG, or 1010 AG.
A faulty one or one that was designed precisely to do that.
The game is admittedly confusing about when the split occurred, but we know it was not when the other Serge was killed, that's when the Dead Sea formed and the surviving Chronopolis was unable to access the other world directly. Once that is ruled out, everything in the game indicates that it was when Serge was taken to the Frozen Flame.

Kodokami

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 03:28:36 pm »
It's all very confusing. I'm starting to think that Belthasar picked up on this...
Quote from: RD's Lynx
Hand over the Chrono Trigger, Kid. Little do you know, but that rock is
actually a tiny, condensed universe. When combined with the Frozen Flame, it
gains the power to bend space-time, allowing its owner to reshape history.
...and decided to play god. :?

Duke Serkol

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 04:33:14 pm »
Mh, you may be on to something... I'd forgot to factor in that Lynx already exists in Radical Dreamers, meaning that in its past Schala supposedly already led Serge to the Frozen Flame.
So Belthasar would know for a fact about Schala's intervention and be able to exploit it.

Unfortunately, we're back to the start with Schala saving Serge. Why would his cries out of countless children throughout time and space reach her?
Going with the star crossed thing, it could be that Schala is able to see all those possibilities Lucca went on about.
But then shouldn't the Lavos part of the Time Devourer cpable of just as much? Wouldn't it stop her abnd Belthasar? Gah...

Mr Bekkler

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 09:57:10 pm »
You guys just gave me a great Dream Splash idea. ;-)

Biga

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 08:26:39 pm »
Hi there!

First time poster, long time lurker here.
Every now and then, I get captured in Chrono series lore and this last time, I caught myself thinking about something similar to this question.
"Why only Kid's time traveling ended up in dimension splitting?"
As I couldn't come up with an answer (or find one), something hit me: "Who said other time travels didn't split dimension either?"

It's probably a long shot but, I kinda came up with this:

Time travelling and changes in history result in dimension splitting. The "active" (or Keystone) timeline is rewritten and the future which was changed, exists in another dimension that split from Keystone and end up in the Darkness Beyond Time (like the little glowing orbs that float around when you battle the Time Devourer).

Now, ending up in DBT doesn't mean that dimension/timeline is erased. It continues to exist. One argument supporting it is Dinopolis, which was pulled from a dimension/timeline that was discarded once Lavos crashed into the planet. It actually came to exist in that dimension way after the day is was split from Keystone (when Lavos crashed).

I guess my point is: There's always a rewrite and a split. Keystone is rewritten, discarded futures are results from splits.

Dwelling a bit further, when Kid changes history, there is a rewrite (Home) and a split (Another). Serge was supposed to die in Keystone. Kid rewrites it saving him. The future where Serge is dead is discarded to DBT. It still exists, like the Reptite timeline/dimension, hence it can be reached through the distortion at Opassa Beach.

Now, if that's the case, what's the difference between Keystone and other timelines/dimensions?
Not sure. But maybe, the only way to physically reach the DBT as a place (and thus, kill the Time Devourer and free Schala) is through the Keystone timeline. Thus the need to have Serge alive in Keystone, so he can execute Balthazar's plan.

Bonus crazy theory: Based on this principle, we could answer the question: "How does Serge being alive spells destruction for the future?"
It doesn't. Crono's actions which ensured that the Day of Lavos didn't happen, occured before the rewrite done by Kid. Thus, it's not affected (as, rewrites would change history only from that point after).
"What about the Tower of Geddon and the Dead Sea?"
It's not a reflection of a future destroyed during the Day of Lavos. It's a reflection of the destruction that will be wrought by the Time Devourer (the "frozen in time" aspect of the place showing exactly that. Time doesn't exist there anymore. It was consumed.)

The ghost children blaming Serge would be ploys by FATE, trying to make Serge kill himself (and release the lock on the Frozen Flame), if he felt guilty enough, feeling responsible for the destruction of the future.

No idea how bananas (or dumb) all of this sounds but, I really love the work on this site and I felt I could chip in with some thoughts.  :D

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 10:36:54 pm »
Your theory is sound -- it's part of the multiverse string theory.

In changing time, you don't actually overwrite the timeline -- you just create a new timeline in which that change is the new reality, and you slip into that new universe, leaving the old timeline behind.

This is more than likely the case with Chrono Trigger -- after all, we know there is a timeline in which Lavos didn't crash into the planet and the Reptites survived (and evolved into the Dragonians). This timeline is part of Project Kid, but doesn't appear to be created by Project Kid. Project Kid just uses that timeline for it's own needs. However, Project Kid *does* seem able to manipulate only the two timelines of Home/Another universe, which are only two of an infinite number of universes. The key, I wager, is the Frozen Flame and it's role in being the power-catalyst.

Now... The only caveat is where the Darkness Beyond Time falls. If this is true and there are an infinite number of universes that can be created, then there shouldn't be discarded timelines at all.

So perhaps the Darkness Beyond Time isn't really a realm of discarded timelines, but rather another dimension in an of itself. Perhaps the space between universes where echoes of timelines are mirrored and compiled, or better yet, a result of the pocket dimension that we know Lavos is capable of creating (after all, during the final battle of Chrono Trigger, Lavos was able to 'summon' images of various era's), and all of this occurs within a pocket universe.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 10:12:01 am »
I'm pretty sure the Reptite "Timeline" is repeatedly mentioned to be "another dimension's future". So no, I don't think it's really a case of branching futures within just one dimension.

Michael Zeal

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Re: What determines a rewrite or a split?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 01:11:11 pm »
I have my own theory on why there was a dimension split: what differentiates Schala's saving of Serge from any of Crono and co's activities in Trigger is that Schala intervened from the "outside" within the Darkness Beyond Time; most likely through the Frozen Flame. The only problem with this theory is that is doesn't explain why sending people out of the DBT doesn't cause a split (like Magus and Kid), but if I had to guess, it's because Schala's intervention in saving Serge was more severe - what, with a magnetic storm being created and such.

As for why Serge... Well, there is the idea that it was proximity to the Frozen Flame that let Schala hear the toddler's cries, but I do like Kodokami's theory that it is because Schala/Kid and Serge have a bond that transcends time - soul mates, you could say, since they got together in one timeline under different circumstances. Whether Belthasar was aware of the Radical Dreamers timeline at first or if even Schala herself was or not is up for debate, but the Guru of Reason likely exploited it for his master plan regardless.