Author Topic: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...  (Read 2523 times)

ZeaLitY

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2011, 12:43:58 am »
She's my favorite as well. I wrote her a special scene in Crimson Echoes if you take her to the final dungeon the first time you visit. It's in the CE Memorial videos.

Jormungand

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2011, 09:04:56 pm »
Dear god, this is prehistoric times we're talking about. In our prehistoric times, far more questionable relationships than this were necessarily common. There's nothing creepy or even remotely unorthodox about Ayla & Kino.

Though I will offer my opinion that a badass such as Ayla deserves a greater match than Kino, who is an annoying and troublesome character.

Xenterex

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2011, 11:33:23 pm »
That's interesting that the perceived limited development for Ayla is taken to push people away from liking her, at least from fan-dom.  From my perspective, because she hasn't had the 'major person conflict' or a thorough set development ingame, that leaves her as an open slate.  Or rather, she just needs a few more details noted about what is revealed about her.

Though now that my head is running on a few things, it does occur to me people may not write much about her due to the sensitive nature of dealing with direct ancestry in Chrono Trigger time lines.

Also, Ayla and Kino's relationship is pretty odd, and given that Ayla favors strength above all, leads me to wonder what aspect of Kino holds her affection over someone like say, Crono.  As even in game Kino misunderstood Ayla's regard for Crono.

HeadlessFritz

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2011, 05:12:43 am »
Ayla was always in my party. Battle-wise I thought she was the only character who could match Crono's strength. She had a very cool and sexy design too.

However, it is obvious though that her character was not developped enough. She doesn't even have a sidequest at the end. We don't know how she became chief and have no idea how her relation with Kino evolved. This is I believe the reason she isn't so popular.

ChaosWolf

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2011, 01:54:16 pm »
Though I will offer my opinion that a badass such as Ayla deserves a greater match than Kino, who is an annoying and troublesome character.

Agreed.  She's supposed to be all about strength and bravery and whatnot, yet she's inexplicably enamored with a cowardly weakling.

It makes no sense.  Makes me think of another unexplained pairing of hot badass blonde and utter dork - Cyborg 18 and Krillin from DBZ... which is another Toriyama-driven piece of work. Coincidence?

Lord J Esq

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2011, 01:09:23 am »
Kino is not as weak as some of you are making him out to be. He fails to understand the nature and intentions of Crono & Co. as clearly as Ayla, but Ayla is exceptional. (You try comprehending the cultural vectors of visitors from outside your era.) He may lack some of Ayla's mental fortitude and open-mindedness, but Ayla is not a good comparison because she is so exceptional. It's very unlikely that Kino is lacking relative to other members of the Iokan tribe. And it's almost certain that he doesn't lack physical strength. Any major deficiencies on Kino's part, be they mental or physical, would contradict Ayla's character, and thus are very unlikely.

As I was verifying my comments by checking the retranslation, I found an interesting tidbit:

Quote from: Retranslation
Ayla: Kino man......
   If Ayla die, have baby, whatever, Kino chief.

In the Woolsey version, the "have baby, whatever" part is missing. The "whatever" in particular is disappointing, because it suggests that the Japanese person who wrote the line took it as an absolute given that a female who gives birth would lose her positions of societal authority. I'm glad Woolsey pared it down.

Jormungand

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2011, 09:02:35 am »
As I was verifying my comments by checking the retranslation, I found an interesting tidbit:

Quote from: Retranslation
Ayla: Kino man......
   If Ayla die, have baby, whatever, Kino chief.

In the Woolsey version, the "have baby, whatever" part is missing. The "whatever" in particular is disappointing, because it suggests that the Japanese person who wrote the line took it as an absolute given that a female who gives birth would lose her positions of societal authority. I'm glad Woolsey pared it down.
I think the "whatever" in this case refers to any scenario wherein she might be otherwise unavailable. "have baby" might mean the actual birth, during which she obviously wouldn't be acting as chief. The line is not specifically about giving birth; it's about cases in which Ayla could not act as chief out of absolute necessity. She can't do it when she's dead; she can't do it when she's in labor; and she can't when she's traipsing about prehistory and beyond with Chrono & Co.

Lord J Esq

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2011, 04:31:29 pm »
Yes, you're right, but that doesn't preclude the point I made, which was that childbirth was apparently a matter-of-fact disqualifier for the position of Ioka Chief in the mind of whomever wrote the line. I also doubt, as you infer, that the loss of status would have been temporary. Ayla, after all, was away from the tribe for various periods during her adventures with Crono & Co. That line didn't have the air of Kino becoming "acting" chief. Plus, childbirth in most societies throughout history has indeed been grounds to strip females of their societal powers.

TheMage

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2011, 03:25:48 pm »
That's a good point, I gotta say when I first played the game I thought the chief was going to be a man, and i'm glad Ayla was chief. Women had some power then! If she would be stripped of her title for having a baby I think its hardly fair but I understand women generally brought up the children while the fathers hunted and did whatever they did back then. I suppose it would be hard to be chief and care for a child at the same time, but I don't see why she couldnt just make Kino watch the kid :D I guess it might be rules of the tribe, thats generally how our history works.

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2011, 03:50:42 pm »
So Ayla chose Kino because he'd be the only man willing to listen to her advice or "let" her still have power

Lord J Esq

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2011, 08:00:50 pm »
That's an interesting possibility (if a disappointing one), but wouldn't it be more likely that she chose him because she likes him and because he's one of the strongest in Ioka?

That's just my thought; I know of no canonical answer.

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2011, 09:03:12 pm »
So Ayla chose Kino because he'd be the only man willing to listen to her advice or "let" her still have power
Yeah. There was a word for that, but I can't seem to remember -- something about King being "just for show", while the person pulling the strings is someone else. However...

That's an interesting possibility (if a disappointing one), but wouldn't it be more likely that she chose him because she likes him and because he's one of the strongest in Ioka?

That's just my thought; I know of no canonical answer.
XD You guys are pushing logic through sheer physical strength here, in which case Kino would already be a dud, wimp and loser. There's obviously more to the character than brute strength.

Think about it for a second: Ayla might be the strongest which gives her privilege to be the tribe leader, and the successor could be anyone but Kino in this regard. However, Kino didn't depend on physical strength. When even the smartest of Reptites or toughest of cavemen challenged you to a straightforward battle, Kino would get cunning and make you chase through the woods, playing games with you. He always stays cautious, observing your movements, treading carefully, staying focused and snatching things that you most need. Also, he is relentless and agile.

Ayla was wise in her decision. A strong man who is nothing but a strong man makes no leader, and eventually shove his people to extinction; a true leader needs to take tough, cunning decisions to secure his people, and Kino was the best for the job.  :)

Lord J Esq

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2011, 09:08:44 pm »
Strongest, not only in body but in mind.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 02:45:23 am »
That's a clever insight to the character, tush.

Synchronization

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Re: My thoughts on the baddest girl in Prehistory...
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 08:00:34 pm »
According to historian Robert Graves the whole idea of a male dominated caveman tribe was incorrect, he argues that before nation states arose almost all tribes were matriarchies.  This is somewhat surprising to most people considering how much they have heard about ruthless tyrants in history subjugating the weaker persons to their violent whim using their superior physical strength.  It could be that the writers of Chrono trigger were, not surprisingly, better read than most on alternative views of history and sought to elaborate on the what the relationship would be like between prehistoric man and his more dominant female master.