Gaspar : The Guru of Time

[Sir Frog]

No.  Time still passes for people at the End of Time.  It must, since we see them move!  But if we adopt a relativistic framework, it may very well be that time seems not to pass at the End of Time from the perspective of someone who is not there.

For instance, imagine that Crono brings with him two identical clocks to the End of Time.  Crono then checks to ensure that the two clocks are in sync.   Crono leaves one clock (Clock EOT) in the care of Frog and then returns to 1000 A.D. with the other clock (Clock 1000).  Back at 1000 A.D., Crono waits for 1 hour to pass on Clock 1000 and then warps back to the End of Time.  Crono then compares his clock with Clock EOT.    Assuming Frog hasn't tampered with the clock, I ask this:  How much time would have passed on Clock EOT?  Perhaps only 1 minute has passed on Frog's clock.  Perhaps only 1 second.

Obviously, we cannot answer this since no evidence one way or another is given in the game.   (For instance, no one in the game ever comments that all of Crono's sidequests seem to take only a few minutes from the POV of those at the EOT.)  

Nevertheless, I think it's a valid question.  I will incorporate this into my conceptual framework (on the Time board).

[Lordchander]

originally i thought this:

Say, Crono left EoT then waited 1 hr then came back, to Gaspar he says Crono disappear through a Gate then come back through immediately.

This cant be right!!

Everytime u leave the EoT with Gaspar awake, then return automatically, Gaspar is asleep? Either hes real tired or time is flowing...which 1 do u choose?

[Ryuusai]

Maybe time passes in EoT but very slowly (as suggested) and it might also make people living in EoT immune to the flow of time.

If so one could live forever in the EoT...

But that just doesn't seem quite right to me...

[Lordchander]

remember when it comes to the axiom of times and other stuff like that, its all strange and a lot is possible.

Come to think of it, maybe Crono should have just stayed at home in the first place...

[Ryuusai]

But if Crono stayed home we wouldn't have Chrono Trigger now would we?

[Sir Frog]

Quoth Ryuusai:

Maybe time passes in EoT but very slowly (as suggested) and it might also make people living in EoT immune to the flow of time.

If so one could live forever in the EoT...

Not exactly.  People at the End of Time would seem to live forever from the POV of people in 1000 A.D., say.  (That is, from the POV of Clock 1000, Clock EOT would seem to go very, very slowly.)  However, if clocks do in fact go slowly at the End of Time, it's because time goes slowly at the End of Time.  Relatively (and relativistically) speaking, time seems normal at the End of Time to those who are there.  In my above example, if Frog stayed at the End of Time until he died naturally, it would feel like fifty years, say.  But Clock 1000 (back in 1000 A.D.) would measure those fifty years as many centuries.  

If these seems confusing, I suggest reading up on general relativity.   Einstein himself made up examples very similar to this one.

[Ryuusai]

Nope not confusing at all.

[Radical Dreamer]

Origin means source.
Source doesn't nesscary means beginning.

The source of ... doesn't mean where it all began?

You said it right.
It can beWHERE it all began. Not when.

in general, I'm not sure where I read it I am reading each section and I jsut finished Lavos and the entity, I think it was on that

Then whoever wrote that was wrong.

You maybe didn't move it but you though of moving it and a signal was sent to your brain and that signal moved inside your brain, that is movement, you can't see it but it's there

?_?
But this doesn't have anything to do with the concept of time.

I agree that tiem is relative, but that's it purpose if nothing move it's useless so it "end"

But everything "moves" in our universe.
Does it mean that nothing will ever end?

and the universe keep expanding but that doesn't mean it will not stop expanding and I think it will stop

Maybe eventually.
No one knows for sure.
But if if it will, no one knows what will happen then.
Some say that if the universe will stop expanding it will collapse into itself.

Radical Dreamers had the one special quality that Chrono Cross severly LACKED: CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! Hell, RD's Serge kicks the ass outta most of CC's characters (much less CC's emotionless tool Serge). Not to mention Magus (Magil/Gil). The story rocked (and wasn't confusing at all). The music was original and atmospheric.

Couldn't agree more.

Aside from that ALL OF THE CHRONO GAMES (RD included) ARE BASED IN ALTERNATE TIMELINES!!!

You mean universes.... not timelines...

I cant remember who, but some1 said something way back on Page 1 or 2 about that time doesnt affect Gaspar or Spekkio at the End of Time.

Yup.
That would be me.

So, if you actually did measure Gaspar's stay in the EoT since the Ocean Palace disaster, he could have been there for decades! But through all that, he doesnt look any older! Hmmm...the secret for eternal life is at the EoT??? Never would have thought so...

Exactly.
He might been there for decades and maybe for 10 minutes.
That's why he isn't dead / older.
Because time is irrelevant at the end of time.

[Chrono'99]

Well, I don't think anybody here said anything about hating RD. My opinion is the same as V_Translanka, actually I like RD's main scenario more than CC. But that doesn't change the fact that CT/CC is the main continuity in the series. There are too much things in RD that directly contradict CT and/or CC, whereas CC doesn't contradict anything. It's like the Dragon Ball Z OAV, some of them are cool, but all of them contradict the main storyline (you can't put them anywhere because some characters who normally never meet in the series or should be busy somewhere else are together in the OAV).

And the End of Time isn't the source of time. Well maybe of time, but not of the whole reality (or whatever concept could be put above time). Schala states in CC that Zurvan, the Sea of Dreams, is the place from where everything has came and will return to. If the End of Time is eternity, I guess Zurvan would have to be more than eternity...

[Radical Dreamer]

If the End of Time is eternity, I guess Zurvan would have to be more than eternity...

Can't they *both* be in etenity?
I think there's enough etenity to spare. ;P

[Rufus]

Easy Answer: Because he can't.

No Time Key=No Time Travel

Exactly.  When Gaspar first arrived, there was NOTHING there.  No gates, no platform, no Spekkio, no nothing.  By the time the gang arrives, those three gates were created for them.  I doubt Gaspar would up and leave while they were out through one of the gates meant for them after he promised to guide them, if he could.

On top of that, Gaspar says, near the end of the game, something along the lines of "I wish I could join you, but sadly I must watch from my vintage point here".

[Sentenal]

The Gate Key isn't required for time travel.  Take the Epoch and Lavos for example.

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, but is Gasper either the Epoch or Lavos?

[Sentenal]

Those were examples.  Magus apparently found some way to time travel.

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, but we never find out how, so I just gave a reason for what we do know. Heck, for all we know, Magil in RD DID use a Gate Key...Who knows w/that wackiness?