Author Topic: Crimson Echoes leaked  (Read 54183 times)

Clovis15

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2011, 06:04:48 pm »
Oh my god, I just finished reading your link... those people are - best put - the devil himself.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2011, 07:06:50 pm »
Quote
Really? The ending of CE was practically the best part of the game. Do you just mean the very ending, after the final boss? Or do you mean the whole final dungeons sequence and final boss?

I'm not sure. It's what I read in the Gamefaqs forum. Once again, as you stated, not everything stated is genuine or true (this especially holds true on the internet). I fired up one version and I'm not very far yet... This is the mostly-finished beta/alpha release with the new tech's and Glenn as a frog still. It has the new tech's Faustwolf showcased before the Cease and Desist (which, from my understanding isn't the version Flames of Eternity obtained and "completed".

It's safe to assume that the version I am playing was completed in secret my those allied with the Compendium (or at least the creator's vision of the game). I will keep you updated.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #92 on: January 22, 2011, 07:26:16 pm »
Oh my god, I just finished reading your link... those people are - best put - the devil himself.

Righthaven is indisputably heinous, yes. Evil, even. But at least they will be humbled in time, due to their abuses. They've already lost a case that has caused them to rein in some of their worst excesses.

Rather, the thing that is more disturbing to me than malicious copyright trolling is the fact that many people choose to submit in confrontations like these, where the act of submission has a chilling effect on free speech. And their reason? Why would people choose such a terrible surrender? Because of their personal cowardice, and nothing else.

I've seen this many times over the years. People talk a good game about the value of free speech to them, but, when faced with a true crisis, most are cowards about it. They'd give up free speech in a heartbeat if they think resistance would cost them money or cause them inconvenience. This is how tyranny prevails in human civilization. Even when one's physical safety is not at risk, such as in the case of intellectual property disputes in America, people will still choose to submit in the face of injustice if they stand to lose social status, property, or mere comfort. Some will submit even when there is no credible threat at all.

Most people are not worthy of the great gift of free speech. Most people have nothing to say, nor any desire to promote justice. Most people want nothing more than to preserve and advance themselves.

I saw a lot of that in the aftermath of Square Enix's C&D demand on Crimson Echoes. Some of the people commenting in the public threads were saying that we should disregard SE entirely and continue to distribute the game, thereby demonstrating their obliviousness to the legal ramifications of such a course of action. That kind of attitude is run-of-the-mill stupidity. But others were saying that we should capitulate entirely. They were very upset at the worst-case scenario prospects of a Compendium shutdown, hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal damages, and the complete demise of fan game projects under the Squeenix umbrella--even though the worst-case scenario was extremely unlikely, and, even if it did come to pass, would barely affect them.

I have little respect or patience for people who are that abjectly submissive. People are so quick to throw their principles out the window when confronted by even a minor threat. The educational system in this country has not done a good job of instilling into people a passion for the right to free speech. But perhaps the task is impossible. Perhaps many or most people are incapable of grasping such high passion. I hope I'm wrong.

Sometimes, you have to be willing to defend yourself. People who stand for nothing are worth nothing. I imagine that living a life of such submissiveness would be torturous. Cowardice is its own punishment.

~~~
It's safe to assume that the version I am playing was completed in secret my those allied with the Compendium (or at least the creator's vision of the game).

I don't think it's productive to speculate on who made the leak, given that we know Square Enix will view the leak unfavorably. The CE video walkthrough was complete enough that it could have inspired anybody with access to a late version of the ROM. If the leaked version is true to the artistic vision of the development team, then as an artist and a writer I'm glad for that, but I wouldn't assume for a moment that any of the team leaked it themselves. Why? Because SE has made it problematic for the development team if such a thing were to be true. SE has shut down communication with the fan community short of legal threats, and they're not going to change their position because they do not have the vision to recognize the benefit in doing so.

We, therefore, having complied with their insultingly over-the-top C&D demand in 2009, owe SE nothing further. Let them do their own dirty work of prosecuting their most devoted fans. I was just talking about the value of free speech. Well, if Crimson Echoes is the free speech at issue here, then the community can do a little bit, at no cost to ourselves, to protect that free speech by not speculating as to who finished developing it and who leaked it. It doesn't matter. CE stands by itself as a work of art, regardless of how it came to be here.

I will keep you updated.

That'd be great. I don't have time to play it for myself, so it'd be nice to learn whether the ending of the leaked version is consistent with the vision of the development team.

Schala Zeal

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2011, 07:53:59 pm »
If people want to own stuff, they need to keep it to themselves, otherwise they need to shut up and get out of their "MINE!" phase

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2011, 08:14:04 pm »
I will keep you updated.

That'd be great. I don't have time to play it for myself, so it'd be nice to learn whether the ending of the leaked version is consistent with the vision of the development team.

Indeed. I won't deny I'm curious about the detals of this leaked patch. From what it is mentioned in Reddit, it does have some changed/added details... though nothing is mentioned about the ending from what I remember. Maybe I should check again or something, just to be sure.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2011, 08:15:27 pm »
If people want to own stuff, they need to keep it to themselves, otherwise they need to shut up and get out of their "MINE!" phase

The commercialization of intellectual property is in the foundations of an Information Age economy. What alternative work would you propose artists and industrialists do to earn a living if they cannot profit from the sale and license of their intellectual property and its products?

Schala Zeal

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2011, 08:19:30 pm »
They turn sharing into a crime.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2011, 08:25:32 pm »
They turn sharing into a crime.

So, let's find a more reasonable statement of policy. What would you have people do in between the endpoints of your previous implication that they should not be able to profit from their intellectual property at all, and the present reality where fair use is severely limited on pain of harsh legal penalties?

Schala Zeal

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #98 on: January 22, 2011, 08:27:55 pm »
Well with the way the world is going, I give the world half a century before we start suing starving, dying children in Africa.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #99 on: January 22, 2011, 08:30:21 pm »
Well with the way the world is going, I give the world half a century before we start suing starving, dying children in Africa.

Suppose it didn't have to turn out that way. What would we have to do differently to keep that from happening, without unintentionally making things worse?

Schala Zeal

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #100 on: January 22, 2011, 08:31:59 pm »
For me there's a difference between taking something from a store without paying for it, and deciding to make something inspired by something else.

Clovis15

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #101 on: January 22, 2011, 11:00:14 pm »
At this point you enter into the dilemma of expiration into public domain, something our country USED TO HAVE. For this matter, you probably want to start getting angry at Disney. It all began when Steamboat Willy, the first film to start Mickey Mouse, was set to expire into public domain in the late 80's; as a reaction to this, Dinsey pulled string and bullshit to get all copyrights extended again. They then did this again around 2000, and will be doing it again around 2020. So long as Disney's lawyers bribe copyrights into infinity, the situation will never improve. The original structure of a system was that the original author would exclusively hold all rights to an idea for a certain period of time, and then after that period of time was over the idea would belong to the people; however, the Disney coporation has made it their personal agenda that the length of time be extended into forever (and they currently have it at 100 years).

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2011, 11:08:46 pm »
So if Steamboat Willy become public domain, would only that rendition of Mickey Mouse be fair use?

Schala Zeal

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2011, 11:11:29 pm »
What about the Simpsons parody, Steamboat Itchy?

Lord J Esq

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Re: Crimson Echoes leaked
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2011, 11:17:40 pm »
So if Steamboat Willy become public domain, would only that rendition of Mickey Mouse be fair use?

The short answer is "yes." Derivative works (when they are legal) get their own copyright. With regard to Mickey Mouse in particular, Disney might argue that, as its chief mascot, Mickey deserves trademark protection, but that wouldn't apply to Disney's creative property in general. And, given the spheres of bullshit in which lawyers for corporates that big are able to operate, who really knows what arguments they would ultimately make in court?

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What about the Simpsons parody, Steamboat Itchy?

Works of parody are generally covered under the fair use provisions of IP law. Almost every episode of The Simpsons is full of ripoffs like that.