Author Topic: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?  (Read 6906 times)

xcalibur

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #120 on: July 09, 2017, 03:37:59 am »
while I'm at it, more polish:

MAJOR ARCANA

Fool - Chrono (entering the Millennial Fair gate)
Magician - Norstein Bekkler
High Priestess - Schala (flanked by beast/girl zeal statues instead of pillars)
Empress - Queen Leene
Emperor - Azala (seated in her reptite throne)
Hierophant - Gaspar (in red Zeal robes, with chrono/marle/lucca/robo instead of acolytes)
Lovers - Crono & Marle (under Leene's Bell)
Chariot - Epoch (white and black exhaust streams)
Strength - Ayla (closing a sabertooth tigers mouth)
Hermit - Belthasar (in the future)
Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate (w/ kilwala, bullfrog, poyozo doll, cat, nu, doreen/dream species)
Justice - Frog w/ Masamune and Hero's Medal
Hanged Man - Robo (in Fiona's Shrine)
Death - Lavos (destroying Zeal or Tyrano Lair, definitely not 1999)
Temperance - Melchior (repairing the masamune w/ dreamstone)
Devil - Magus (Ogre and Naga-ette in chains)
Tower - Mammon Machine (w/ Ruby Knife in it, and lightning as seen ingame)
Star - Marle w/ Pendant
Moon - Dreamstone (w/ Queen Zeal's reflection)
Sun - Lucca w/ Sun Stone (+Wondershot?)
Judgement - The Chrono Trigger (on the summit of Death Peak)
World - Nu/Entity (with guardian soldier, reptite, mystic imp, enlightened one)


ACE CARDS

Ace of Swords - Ruby Knife
Ace of Wands - Gate Key
Ace of Cups - Zeal Sapling
Ace of Pentacles - Rainbow Shell


COURT CARDS

King of Swords- Masa & Mune 
Queen of Swords- Mother Brain
Knight of Swords- Slash
Page of Swords- Dalton

King of Wands- Spekkio
Queen of Wands- Queen Zeal
Knight of Wands- a winking Flea
Page of Wands- Jetbike Johnny

King of Pentacles- King Guardia XXI
Queen of Pentacles- Crono's Mom
Knight of Pentacles- Ozzie
Page of Pentacles- Gato

King of Cups- Cyrus
Queen of Cups- Fiona
Knight of Cups- Toma (or Kino or Doan)
Page of Cups- Janus

while the Major Arcana, Court, and Aces are mostly settled, the rest of the Minor Arcana is still wide open to interpretation. If we go for a complete deck, I think we could depict various scenes from the game on the remaining 36 suit cards. There's more than enough content in CT to do this, but filling in all the blanks would be a challenge. However, we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 11:20:14 pm by xcalibur »

xcalibur

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #121 on: July 11, 2017, 08:54:59 am »
For future reference, I'll provide a rationale for my choices.

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The Fool - Chrono. The Fool represents the querent. He is the protagonist of the journey, striking out boldly into the unknown. Likewise, Chrono is the avatar of the player. He doesn't hesitate to leap into the unknown and take on challenges, even if this turns out to be unwise. We considered making the Player the Fool (and Chrono the Magician), but I think Chrono is enough of an avatar that it works. Besides, Chrono's character is a better fit for the Fool, with his potential, courage, and (at times) recklessness.

The Magician - Norstein Bekkler. The Magician uses creative energy to unlock potential and make things manifest. Chrono could fit here, but Norstein Bekkler is a better choice. He plays the part, and he creates the clone which is vital for bringing back Chrono. His ability to manifest something as strange as a clone, his power to solve the party's dilemma, and his role in resurrection all point to the Magician. This is especially true because the Magician acts as a conduit between the heavens and the earth, and Chrono's resurrection alludes to this.

High Priestess - Schala. The High Priestess represents female divinity, the esoteric, and intuition. Schala certainly looks the part, she has great magical power, and she's enigmatic. She is directly connected to Magus' mysterious past, and her fate is one of the few loose threads at the end of the game.

Empress - Queen Leene. The Empress represents growth and nurturing of life. Queen Leene fits this role, especially since she is key to continuing the Guardian royal line.

Emperor - Azala. The Emperor represents male authority, order, rule of law, discipline, and power. Likewise, Azala is absolute ruler of the Reptites; capable of constructing fortresses, leading armies, controlling a Tyrannosaur, and governing her race. Her ability to enforce order on primal strength makes her an almost ideal fit. The one problem is that Azala is female, while the Emperor is male. However, this one contradiction can be permitted, since in all other regards she is definitely an authoritarian Emperor. She is certainly not a nurturing Empress, especially since her race went extinct.

Hierophant - Gaspar. It took me a long time to make this connection, but it is the correct choice (and it finally unraveled the Guru knot). The Hierophant represents spiritual leadership and communal traditions. While Gaspar looks like a Hermit, in fact he plays the Hierophant role to the hilt. He presides over the End of Time, which is a home base for your party. Throughout the game, he provides leadership, guidance, and information on what is happening and what to do next. He is the spiritual leader of the party, thus the Hierophant.

Lovers - Chrono & Marle. The Lovers is about relationships and desire. The whole adventure begins with a chance encounter between Chrono & Marle, Chrono risking himself to save her, and Marle defending his innocence. Throughout the story, we are given strong hints that there is chemistry between the two. They're not the only relationship -- there's also Lucca/Robo, Magus/Schala, Ayla/Kino etc. -- but theirs is the most prominent.

Chariot - Epoch. The Chariot is about motivation, decisiveness, and achieving victory. The fact that it is a vehicle is an obvious parallel with the Epoch, but there is more. The Epoch overcomes the obstacle of the sealed gate to continue your adventure, and it can crash right through Lavos' shell. Likewise, the Chariot can run over obstacles and break enemy ranks. The enhanced ability to travel through time and space fits well with ambition and energy of the Chariot.

Strength - Ayla. Strength, also known as Fortitude, is about taming one's primal energy and passions. By tapping into that raw energy in a disciplined way, you can get much more out of it. Ayla is primal energy par excellence, but she's not completely wild and out of control. She combines her raw power with discipline, morals, and a philosophical outlook. This can be seen at many points, such as her punishment of Kino, her leadership of the Iokans, and her frank views on the human/reptite conflict: "Win and live. Lose and die. Rule of life. No change rule." which is one of the best quotes from the game.

Hermit - Belthasar. The Hermit is about withdrawal from society, pondering, reflecting, and eventually re-emerging with new insights. Likewise, Belthasar lives a solitary life in the bleak future, with only a cybernetic Nu for company. While you can meet him in person, you cannot get much out of him. It is only later, after he succumbs to madness and/or death, that the party can reap the rewards of his solitary work and research (the Epoch, Poyozo dolls, insights into Lavos, etc.)

Wheel of Fortune - Time Gate. The Wheel of Fortune is all about luck and change. Likewise, the Time Gates send you on your adventure, and you have no idea when and where you'll end up. The card has several figures around the wheel, which should be replaced by the iconic characters I mentioned.

Justice - Frog. Justice is about fairness and impartiality. It's also about making painful adjustments to right wrongs and restore balance. Frog represents chivalry and fights for what is right. More importantly, he makes the difficult decision to let go of all his regrets, rejoin the party, fight Magus, and eventually make peace with Cyrus -- this definitely fits with making difficult adjustments to set things right. Frog wields the Masamune/Grandleon, and this is another powerful connection to Justice. The Masamune tests you in battle to see if you are worthy of it, regardless of who you are. And of course, there's that famous line -- "it's not who owns the sword, it's how you use it" which is concurrent with the concept of Justice.

Hanged Man - Robo. The Hanged Man is a card of introspection, inversion, suspension, and epiphany. It is about one's perspective being dramatically altered. Robo fits this to a T. When he is first activated, he is asked what he wants to do, and this comes as a shock to Robo. He spent his entire pre-1999 existence carrying out orders and following programming. Suddenly, his world is toppled, and he is in the paradoxical situation of being a robot with free will. He chooses to join the party as an assertion of his new identity. He breaks free of his old programming, even though he is viciously attacked by the R series and Mother Brain for doing so; likewise, the hanged man has an inverted perspective compared to everyone else who is upright. Another example is the Fiona's Forest sidequest. Robo spends centuries growing the forest, and is found in stasis in the shrine. He is suspended in limbo during this stretch of time, and this gives him unprecedented insights into the Entity.

Death - Lavos. Death is misunderstood. Yes, it can mean death and destruction, but it can also have the meaning of 'destroy and rebuild'. One has to burn away the dead wood so new shoots can grow. That's why I insist that this card not depict 1999 and its all-out destruction of the world. Instead, it should depict Lavos' fall in prehistory, or his intentional destruction of Zeal. In both of those cases, one way of life & civilization had to fall so a new one could take its place. The Reptites were destroyed so that humans could inherit the earth. Zeal was destroyed so the modern world could take its place. In either case, there is an ending which leads to a new beginning. Since Lavos plays this role in the world's history, he should be the Death card, notwithstanding the fact that Lavos is the villain and Death is not necessarily evil.

Temperance - Melchior. Temperance is about moderation and combining opposites to achieve synthesis. Melchior is a renowned smith of weapons and armor. There's also the juxtaposition between the fact that he's the Guru of Life, yet he makes weapons and equipment for battle. However, if you use weapons for the right cause, you can defend life, which is a synthesis between seeming opposites. His repair of the Masamune/Grandleon is another example of synthesis through careful work and the right proportions.

Devil - Magus. The Devil is another misunderstood card. He's not about being evil -- rather, he's about losing restraint, going to extremes, giving in to excess. The Devil is about power, carnal desire, and so on. Likewise, Magus seems like an evil villain at first, but he's more of an antihero. He leads the Mystics because he wants power, and he'll go to any extreme to save Schala and defeat Lavos -- even if that means joining the party who tried to destroy him. Magus' power, unorthodox methods, and extreme choices clearly identify him as the Devil. Besides, they match on an intuitive level.

Tower - Mammon Machine. The Tower is about tearing down falsehoods and punishing hubris. It is a dramatic downfall for overreaching arrogance and lies. The Mammon Machine is an ideal fit here. The Zealians deluded themselves into believing that living off of Lavos' power was a sustainable path. They were already on top of the world, and tried to siphon off even more power from Lavos in an attempt to attain immortality. For this overreaching hubris, their entire civilization was destroyed. The Mammon Machine, and the fall of Zeal in general, reflects the Tower.

Star - Marle w/ Pendant. The Star is a symbol of hope and guidance. Things may not be good now, but there is potential for the future. As long as you stay on the path, there will be help along the way. The pendant is the trigger that starts the whole adventure, and it becomes a boon later on, opening doors that previously blocked your path. It's like a guiding light, which is why it fits as the Star.

Moon - Dreamstone. The Moon represents the subconscious, imagination, intuition, the world of dreams, visions, and nightmares. Likewise, dreamstone has strange, enigmatic qualities. It can harness and store magical energy, including that of Lavos. It was used to forge the Masamune/Grandleon and the Pendant, but also the Mammon Machine. There's also that text in Zeal that describes the "strange red rock" with "powers beyond human comprehension" which created love and hate (implying that it caused humans to evolve or gain knowledge, like the pomegranates of the Garden of Eden). A substance with such dangerous power fits well with the Moon. I'd recommend Queen Zeal's reflection in the stone, so that 1) she gets referenced in the Major Arcana, and 2) to hint at the dark side or "lunacy" of the Moon.

Sun - Lucca. The Sun is about science, reason, clarity, and optimism -- the opposite of the Moon. Lucca has a strong affinity for science, technology, and reason. She is the mastermind of the party, and approaches problems with vigor and intellect. She is an ideal fit. In addition, the card could include the Sun Stone, or maybe the Wondershot charging up a bright ball of energy.

Judgment - Chrono Trigger. Judgment is about forgiveness, making amends, moving on from the past, resurrection and healing. The Chrono Trigger/Time Egg is a perfect fit for this. It brings you back to the lowest point, and allows you to change things for the better. Once Chrono is back, the party can finally move forward and complete their quest. There is also a literal sense of judgment in that you must earn the Chrono Trigger's intercession by putting in the effort (getting the clone, climbing death peak, etc.) to prove your dedication.

World - Nu/Entity. The World is about the universe, of course. It's also about completion and coming full circle. The Entity, the spirit of the planet, fits with this, as does the Nu. In particular, there is the famous line: "All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu." That sense of alpha and omega, the complete circle, fits well with the World card. There are also figures in the corner, representing the varied aspects and qualities of the universe. For Chrono Tarot, I chose representatives of four major cultures from different eras: guardian soldier, reptite, mystic imp, and enlightened one.
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A final note about the Major Arcana: we wanted to fit all 7 party members and all 3 gurus, while still making selections that suited the meaning and style of each. The difficulty of this is what I mean by the "guru knot". Assigning Gaspar to Hierophant was the breakthrough.

As for the Minor Arcana, I won't discuss it in detail now. I will mention the qualities of the suits:
Swords: air, intellect, debate, nobility/military
Wands: fire, energy, ambition, creativity
Cups: water, emotion, faith, love
Pentacles: earth, body, possessions, wealth

Aces represent each suit in its quintessential form. The court cards are self-explanatory.

From this, hopefully you can see the logic behind all the choices I made. I strove for some amount of moral balance -- Janus as page of cups makes that suit a little darker, while Masa & Mune bring a positive note to Swords. I debated a bit over Queen of Swords and Queen of Wands, but the correct choices became clear: the power and ambition of Queen Zeal fits Wands; the militancy, logic, and persuasiveness of Mother Brain fits Swords.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 11:08:21 pm by xcalibur »

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2018, 07:47:01 pm »
So maybe after Dream Splash, I would actually LOVE to tackle this project! I will go through the threads after I'm done with my Dream Splash work as I think this looks like a blast to do!If anyone wants to join me, just let me know!

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2018, 10:40:34 pm »
Hah, what a coincidence! I was just about to ping xcalibur (a year late rather than half... my bad, sorry) given that I've finished everything I needed to, and I have a few days free so I can finally give this a project a shot again.

PrincessNadia78, feel free to take it on as you like! The more the merrier. I'll start some sketches today myself.

Kodokami

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2018, 11:03:11 pm »
Tushantin! You're back! Hope you stick around for a bit :)

Yeah, it'd be great to see this project finished.

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2018, 11:19:29 pm »
Tushantin! You're back! Hope you stick around for a bit :)

Yeah, it'd be great to see this project finished.
Haha good to see you, Kodo!

Yeah, sorry about the disappearance. In case I don't stick around, feel free to email me and drag me back in. xD I can be a pretty lazy these days.

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #126 on: April 14, 2018, 01:26:28 pm »
All right, I'll start on the Strength Card, because that seems clearer and easy to start with.

I have a suggestion to make for anybody that wishes to contribute: Given how stringent copyright and trademark laws are, especially in countries like the US and UK, even if this is project is about the Chrono series, let's not call it that when you're actually submitting your entries.

Instead, we could call it something els. Like... Timekeepers' Tarot, perhaps? (I'm trying not to be too blatant by suggesting Time Trigger.)

The art could also reflect that. It doesn't have to have an exact likeness to the original characters -- try to subtly redesign them appropriately to something more modern -- that would make anybody believe they are original characters, and yet any Chrono fan would INSTANTLY notice that they are exactly the same characters as the ones in the games.

 8) Of course, that doesn't stop you from mentioning off-handedly that the art was inspired by the Chrono series.

The reason I'm saying this is because I've been having a lot of flagging against my own art, even "original" art, for the most ridiculous reasons. I made a poster design called Hero's Journey with completely original art and design, and yet it kept being removed without explanation. The only assumption I have is, perhaps (which I did not know before), is that Hero's Journey is a trademark protected by the Joseph Campbell Foundation, and they need to enforce their trademark by removing my art and other people's uses of it or else they risk losing it. That's not a risk any company can afford.

So is everyone okay with Timekeeper's Tarot?

EDIT: Just wanted to mention that I've found my previous template design for the back and front of the card to be stale and... pretty bad, tbh. Don't use it. Just make the card-art as you want, and we'll figure something out for the back design later.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 01:28:06 pm by tushantin »

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #127 on: April 16, 2018, 01:18:30 pm »
I love the name Timekeeper's Tarot!

It's ridiculous these days. You can't name anything without someone having a stick up their butt about it. Could you re-name the piece and repost it? It's the only solution I could think of. Also, thanks for the warning as I'm just starting out posting art online and that's good to know.

So right now I'm working on a piece for a coworker and it's difficult (she wants me to draw a pic of her grandson for her and wants to give it to her daughter as a Mother's Day gift) so once I'm done with that (I would say 2 weeks max) I'll be good to go, even with working on Dreamsplash. This project might help me get some ideas for it, because right now all I have is my fanfic that I'm planning on finishing and submitting. I need more ideas!! LOL

So I will definitely be going through the threads and such to get myself caught up on everything. I was wondering if we could actually get these printed at a place like Kinko's when we're done?

I'm so happy that other people want to join me on this! This project is going to be a BLAST!!

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2018, 05:46:39 pm »
Off-topic, but I have a question for you Tushantin...

So I've noticed people selling Chrono Trigger art on Etsy. Is that legal? I mean I'm assuming not but I wanted to know because it would sure be awesome to sell some of my Chrono Trigger art once I get good at it. I'm figuring it's not but I wanted to ask for sure.

Thanks!

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2018, 03:41:01 am »
So I will definitely be going through the threads and such to get myself caught up on everything. I was wondering if we could actually get these printed at a place like Kinko's when we're done?

So long as we're not infringing upon anybody's rights, I think we can safely get it printed anywhere. Besides, I also would like people to fund me on Patreon through this, so it works as a great advertisement material, even if it's free.  :wink:

So I've noticed people selling Chrono Trigger art on Etsy. Is that legal? I mean I'm assuming not but I wanted to know because it would sure be awesome to sell some of my Chrono Trigger art once I get good at it. I'm figuring it's not but I wanted to ask for sure.

Most likely it isn't... I'm not entirely sure just to what degree it's possible to sell stuff based on somebody else's copyright material, but I'm definitely certain that selling stuff based on somebody's Trademark is absolutely illegal and there's no grey-area about it. It's not necessarily always because they want to, but mostly because they have to by law. But all that depends on each country's laws and regulations; what's legal in your country might not be so in mine, and vice versa. This is also why Crimson Echoes was shut down, methinks.

So if there are lawyers who work at Square Enix who discover this and find this to be a problem, you'll likely find them shutting those sales down. Although, a lot of times small shops that create materials like these don't really get noticed until way later.

Although, I have seen artists like Nathan Sharp who sell fan-based products like original music based on an IP they don't own (like, video games -- Legend of Zelda, for instance). They do this by being clever with their approach to copyright and trademark laws: They don't actually infringe on the company's copyright or trademark rights, and instead just claim that this "original song" was "inspired by" that IP.

That's where I got the Timekeeper's Tarot idea from. Not exactly sure how effective it might be when it comes to a visual derivative, compared to an audio one, but we can take a tiny bit of gamble with that.  :P

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2018, 01:05:15 pm »
Ooooo yay! I would definitely love a printed set when we're done, which is where I got the idea from. They will be my luckiest deck! LOL

Hey, free is the best. Ha ha!

That was what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong, I found some cute stuff, but personally, I wouldn't want to take that chance. It's different IMO if you do something for free as you are not making any money off of it. But when you're trying to sell stuff... methinks that's not a good idea.

I absolutely love the Timekeeper's Tarot name. It will be perfect!!

xcalibur

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #131 on: April 22, 2018, 11:37:03 pm »
Timekeeper's Tarot sounds great.

I just made a big change to the court cards. until now, I had Ozzie as King of Pentacles, with Slash and Flea as Knights of Swords and Wands, and Yakra/Chancellor as Knight of Pentacles. My reasoning was that with Ozzie's coup d'etat and ability to establish a ruling line, he could outrank the others as a King, but now I'm not so sure. Ozzie/Slash/Flea are collectively known as the Mystical Knights, so it would also make sense to have all three as Knights. while I don't underestimate Ozzie's capabilities, he's a comic character for much of the game, so I'm not sure if he should be King. And by demoting Ozzie, that makes room for another character as King.

Thus, I've assigned Ozzie as Knight of Pentacles, bumped off Yakra/Chancellor, and crowned King Guardia XXI as the King of Pentacles.

I realize the other Tarot Doctors haven't been around lately, but if you have any thoughts or criticisms on my decision, feel free to let me know.

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #132 on: April 23, 2018, 03:30:07 am »
Sounds good to me! Nah, I don't have any opinions on the matter. I can't really speak much on something I know jack-shit about. XD So I'll leave this to your expertise, and I'm afraid you're on your own on this one. I'll just handle the illustration side.

Tell you what: Make a separate thread of your own, outlining everything you have in mind (with some posts reserved for yourself in case of necessity), detailing everything that an illustrator ought to know. I'll pin it.

Feel free to list everything you like, though take your time on the court cards. For now, we'll just be focusing on completing the Major Arcana, so that we can finally proclaim the project as "complete" once that's done. Everything else will be add-ons, in case we also find other illustrators.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 03:32:59 am by tushantin »

PrincessNadia78

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #133 on: April 23, 2018, 06:11:55 pm »
So what I'm wondering is do we have a list of who is taking what? Because I don't want to start a card someone else is doing. Also, is there is a list and I missed it, I'm apologizing now.  :D

tushantin

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Re: Chrono Tarot cards project. Any ideas?
« Reply #134 on: April 23, 2018, 06:47:00 pm »
So what I'm wondering is do we have a list of who is taking what? Because I don't want to start a card someone else is doing.

Just pick a card and go for it! Doesn't matter which. You can even take Ayla, the Strength card, which I'm recently doing, if you feel like it. We can always have multiple versions of the same card.

Here's xcalibur's list (although I do wish he'd create a formal thread for himself and everybody else for me to pin it): https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=8974.msg224792#msg224792