Author Topic: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.  (Read 4261 times)

ShoeMagus

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 04:43:02 am »
Honestly, I don't think I'd change a thing. I think Trigger is pretty much perfect (or was until they added the stupid Lost Sanctum!).

Maybe an Ayla mini-quest. But honestly, I didn't find her or her timeline particularly interesting. She's my least favorite, least used character. So I can live without that.

Initially, I was disappointed in Cross because it never says where Magus is or what he's doing, but it seems to have all of these other characters that aren't interesting. Alternatively, the characters create a fuller world. You interact with these people, meet them, interest them, go on quests, even if they're small ones. Finding all of the skeleton for instance. You find this character and get a glimpse into his life. It creates a world full of real relationships.


gatotsu911

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 01:38:54 pm »
Initially, I was disappointed in Cross because it never says where Magus is or what he's doing, but it seems to have all of these other characters that aren't interesting. Alternatively, the characters create a fuller world. You interact with these people, meet them, interest them, go on quests, even if they're small ones. Finding all of the skeleton for instance. You find this character and get a glimpse into his life. It creates a world full of real relationships.

This. I liked the number of characters, no matter how minor some of them were, because they helped the world you traversed feel like a living, breathing PLACE, where actual PEOPLE went about their EVERYDAY LIVES - experienced joy, heartbreak, loss, triumph, everything. The individual stories of many of the characters were quite possibly better than the overarching plot itself. Every time I met a new character, I would excitedly think "Can I recruit this person? How?" Sometimes I could, sometimes I couldn't. Apparently the original design concept for Cross was to make a much shorter game in which EVERY character the player met was recruitable. That would have been awesome, but I can understand why they didn't do it. (though I wonder whether that concept flowed over into Final Fantasy X's Blitzball recruitmet sub-game?) They still managed to capture some aspect of the feelings and interactions they were trying to evoke with the system they went with.
Anyway, my point is I wouldn't want to decrease the number of characters. All I'd ask for is that some of the existing characters be further fleshed out, and that the game gave players a practical application for unused party members (and, accordingly, a greater gameplay incentive to collect them all).

SilentMartyr

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 01:56:59 pm »
Most likely the reasoning behind not making every character able to be recruited was that the game would have been too short. BY having so many characters it makes it nearly impossible to delve into the deep and complex story that the final Cross product came out to be. I think that the game would had suffered greatly if it hadn't been changed.

Lennis

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2010, 07:00:44 am »
How would I change the Chrono games to make them better?  This is a question I have become rather obsessed with in recent years.  They are two of the greatest games ever made, and yet they can still be so much more.  This question is the foundation of all of my fan-fiction work, in fact.  Here are the most important changes I would make, in addition to what other posters have already mentioned:

#1: Give Crono and Serge fully developed personalities
Mute heroes are so 1990's.  They're old hat - an RPG cliche' that would be the subject of ridicule if introduced in a modern game.  All we could learn about these characters was what little we could discern from how other characters reacted to them.  Wouldn't it be better for the story if these characters radiated a life of their own?  How much more might we learn about the hero's companions if we saw and heard his reactions to them?  The concept of "you are the character" doesn't lend itself well to an ensemble cast - which Chrono Trigger definitely is.

#2: Lose the Conservation of Time Theorem
Obviously, this rule was made up for gameplay purposes.  There could be no more than three player characters on screen at once.  From a story perspective, this is extremely limiting.  I mean, are the benchwarmers at The End of Time supposed to just twiddle their thumbs waiting to be called on?  Yawn!  We can easily get around the three-man party dynamic by introducing a character-swap system similar to what was used in Final Fantasy X.  You can also create plot devices to split up the party at certain points of the story to develop particular characters.

#3: Show us the future we are trying to save
Any new Chrono Trigger should explore 1999, or the years leading up to it, in some depth.  It's not just a question of why should we care.  Exploring the future is important because it will give us more insight into the characters witnessing that future.  In fact, it should be a major part of the overall story.

#4: Develop the world more fully
Why is Guardia so important?  That question was never really addressed in the original game.  It took a dedicated group of fans to expand on the world's history and create the character Cedric Guardia.  The world of the year 1000 should also be expanded on to give us a clearer view of how Crono, Marle, and Lucca look at life.  Is everything really peaceful?  Or is there conflict brewing under the surface?

#5: Give Marle more to do
A lot of fans dislike Marle because she comes off as little more than a spoiled princess who happens to be Crono's love interest.  She needs to be more than that.  A lot more.  Giving her more opportunities to be heroic will go a long way toward accomplishing this.

#6: Develop Lucca the most
Most of us consider Lucca to be the emotional core of the party.  A lot of that has to do with her eventual role in the events leading up to Chrono Cross, but her actions in Trigger also speak volumes.  She has the makings of being the main protagonist, and perhaps she should be in the story's later half.  There's something about this lovable geek that just screams heroine.

#7: Focus on the relationships
In all things Chrono, I have a simple rule: If you don't laugh or cry, there's something wrong.  CT and CC have heart, and the core of that heart are the relationships between the characters.  We all know the relationships of Crono and Marle, Lucca and Robo, Glenn and Cyrus, Ayla and Kino, Schala and Janus, and Serge and Kid.  A new Chrono should see even more relationships - including ones you might not expect.

#8: Give us the chance for a happy ending
Thanks to Chrono Cross, things didn't end well for the Chrono Trigger crew.  But who says that future has been set in stone?  Does the future refuse to change?  Maybe something will happen that will make it possible to save everyone and reunite Serge and Kid.  Don't they deserve it?


ShoeMagus

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2010, 11:27:33 am »

#8: Give us the chance for a happy ending
Thanks to Chrono Cross, things didn't end well for the Chrono Trigger crew.  But who says that future has been set in stone?  Does the future refuse to change?  Maybe something will happen that will make it possible to save everyone and reunite Serge and Kid.  Don't they deserve it?



No, I'd say that thanks to the Chrono Trigger crew, things didn't end well. They made the choice to time travel and change the future. The things that destroy and/or scatter Crono, Marle, and Lucca are all results of their time traveling.

I think Lucca realizes most the consequences of their actions, if her letter to Kid is any indication. Do they "deserve" a happy ending? Well, they defeated Lavos. But they also created the Time Devourer.

As much as I'd like to know what happened, if they pulled some crap, "Everybody lived happily ever after", it would be a detriment to the series.

Lennis

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2010, 06:28:44 pm »

No, I'd say that thanks to the Chrono Trigger crew, things didn't end well. They made the choice to time travel and change the future. The things that destroy and/or scatter Crono, Marle, and Lucca are all results of their time traveling.

I think Lucca realizes most the consequences of their actions, if her letter to Kid is any indication. Do they "deserve" a happy ending? Well, they defeated Lavos. But they also created the Time Devourer.

As much as I'd like to know what happened, if they pulled some crap, "Everybody lived happily ever after", it would be a detriment to the series.

The CT crew created the Time Devourer?  I thought that had more to do with Schala than anyone else.

Of course, a simple "happily ever after" won't cut it.  I intend to make them work for it.  There is also the question of which timeline or reality is the "correct" one, if that question can even be answered.

To be more clear, I envision the world of Chrono not as a continually evolving universe, like Star Wars, but as a story with a definitive beginning, middle, and end.  Yeah, you could create a new set of characters with each passing generation and create a time-travelling/dimension-hopping quest for them, but would it be the same?  Remember that what makes Chrono so compelling are the characters that inhabit the world, not so much the world itself.  A good example of this is "Back to the Future".  The characters had a sense of closure, and while life for them went on, their story was essentially over.  There was no need for a "Back to the Future IV".  Chrono Cross didn't really give us that sense of closure because everyone was either dead, had ceased to exist, or had their memories erased.  We felt kind of empty when the credits rolled.  That's why so many of us pine for a remake/sequel.  A "happy" ending gives us closure.  Closure gives a story the structure it needs to be that much more compelling when we look back on it.  Right now, when we look back on Chrono, we're asking ourselves "What was it all for?"

ShoeMagus

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 02:38:18 am »
Ah I see your point better now. Yes I think you're right. Much as I love it, there ought to be a sense of closure.

Though I'd argue against a "happy" ending. If people don't die in stories like this, then I don't buy into them as well.

But yes, if Crono had never decided to attempt to defeat Lavos, the Time Devourer would not exist. Well, probably wouldn't exist, as I think its generally thought that in the original timeline, Schala used the pendant's power to remove herself and Queen Zeal from the Ocean Palace. Because of Crono's presence, the Time Devourer is created and the Black Omen rises.

Lennis

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2010, 05:25:12 am »
Characters can and will die, as I have things envisioned.  But when you are considering alternate timelines and alternate realities, the lines between life and death become a lot less clear.  Someone in one timeline could be dead, but are very much alive in another.  Someone's actions could destroy themselves and an entire reality, and yet in so doing plant the seeds of their own redemption.  To say more than this would give away too much, but there will be no happy ending without sacrifice.  That, I can promise you.

xcalibur

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 01:55:06 pm »
I haven't played chrono cross yet, in spite of my love for CT. It seems to me that as far as canon, you should consider CT by itself as well as CT and CC... especially if you find difficulty in reconciling the two storylines to each other.

As far as improving chrono trigger -

• I'd give the option of changing the difficulty, such as getting less xp from monsters. I believe theres a rom hack that does this.

• Instead of the programmers ending when you beat lavos at the ocean palace, there should be an ending which shows the radically altered timeline you create by saving zeal from destruction, not to mention the gurus and janus not getting gated, and so on.

I recently accomplished the feat of defeating ocean palace lavos with chrono/marle/frog at level 50 to get the dream team, but I'd rather see a zeal timeline (which I and others have posted about before)... especially since you can get it anyway in newgame+.

Chrono trigger is one of my favorite RPGs ever, but there's always still more room for improvement!

Hayden

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2010, 03:35:57 pm »
I was having a discussion with my wife about ways we would change the games in the event of a remake (in our opinions), and was wondering what everyone thought of our ideas and what they would change themselves to make the Chrono games the best they could be.  This isn't so much about the failings of either game, but how they could be polished or rounded out a little more if remade today - besides the obvious graphic/sound overhauls and re-translations maybe.

--Spoilers Below--

Chrono Trigger:
--> I think the way battle entry is handled in CT is much better than the classic random battles of the day, but in a way the battles and the choice to enter into them are unavoidable, especially in new areas - I would have liked to see fewer scripted "step on this spot to start a fight" -fights.
--> In light of now knowing the story and important plot points to Cross, possibly introduce some plot springboards that would have been naturally answered in Cross - have dialogue between characters that asks "Where'd Schala go", "What happened to the future and the people in it after we saved it?" (namely Belthasar), etc.  Some things that might make the plots from both games bridge a little more smoothly.

Chrono Cross:
--> I'm sure this is a common one - reduce the number of playable characters and focus the character development in the game on those individuals - this one would upset fans of the odd playable, but I think for a game with such an enigmatic story, it would be best to really rivet the flow of the story around those few that had significant plot importance.  The others could be good, quirky, and even useful NPCs, just have little to do with following the group through the story or fighting battles.  I would say Serge/Lynx, Kid, Harle, Karsh, Riddel, Norris, and Dario as the optional character (similar to the way Magus was recruited) would be a good select few.
--> Pacing throughout the game in general, but specifically parceling out the paragraphs of text presented at the end of the game a little more evenly throughout.  The big twist could have still been that everything that happened was planned from the start, but having more tie-ins throughout the game would be good I think.

That's a good start - what does everyone else think?

In Chrono trigger i would change the Techs i will make it so you can have around 17 Techs and make it that you have more People on your quest to save Lavos i will also Make the Cure 2 Tech to be a Cure for all but instead it will be called Cure 5 And she will have a Cure 3 that heals 450 for all Members *Cure1 is now *Cure2 it Heals 450 on 1 team mate *Aura is now *Cure it heals 75 For 1 team mate

maggiekarp

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2010, 05:42:28 pm »
Chrono Cross would have been better if it was just the CT crew sitting around eating cold Lavos sandwiches the next day.

TheMage

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2010, 08:58:08 pm »
I adored, chrono trigger, if anything, I would have made it longer :D but that might be just me. I remember thinking its over already but i'm not ready to beat lavos WAAAH.

I also, would have liked to have seen some double and tripple techs for Magus, even though it doesn't suit his character. XD

As for Chrono Cross - which - in itself, was a marvelous game, was not such a great sequel. Oh by the way, Schala's attached to Lavos thus making the time devouerer, Chrono,Marle and Lucca are dead, Guardia's been destroyed, You watch Robo die, and Magus is no where to be seen, (except one easter egg). You meet Ayla's mom which is nifty, but Frog isnt mentioned at all :(

Oh, and at the end, no one remembers a thing,  it was all planned by Belthasar! Daaamn you Belthasar and your god complex!

I loved Cross, but it sure did piss me off, maybe thats what I loved about it. I suppose I would have just wanted a less. . . angry feeling after playing it haha. It left me with more questions than answers. We sitll dont know where Schala is now, no one remembers a thing, and everything is- left unknown! I guess, as Lennis said earlier, I want closure!


Lance VII

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2010, 10:57:03 am »
Trim down characters in CC. 44 is waaaaay too many.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2010, 05:23:18 pm »
I would change CC by either getting rid of or providing an explanation for all the non-human, non-reptite (dragonians are just evolved reptites so they're fine), non-mystic/fiend, non-robot(wtf super-advanced-even-though-I-was-built-in-the-present Grobyc?) characters. Change the Beach Bum model to look more like a Nu, since that was the obvious intention. Hell, maybe even CALL it a Nu, though I know that's a stretch </sarcasm>.

Poshul the pink dog that talks with a lisp? Either gone, or explain that he's from a race that starts out looking like earth cats but purple, and over thousands of years they grow into Poshul's form. Sorry, Alfador. I mean no disrespect. It is only an example.

Flat out explain Demi-Humans are the product of Medina's human/mystic coexistence experiment.

Fairies? No. Just no.

I agree with others here, there are too many characters, not enough CT respect (killing everyone), and the whole DELETE EVRATHANG NAO! loss of memory at the end.

And I'd rename Elements. The term element is used in CT, for magic, and in CC is used in different context to describe something different about the SAME SUBJECT. Magic. Too confusing, call it Magitek if you have to, Element is a poor choice of name, period.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 05:27:25 pm by Mr Bekkler »

utunnels

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Re: How you would change CT/CC to make them better.
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2010, 07:57:31 pm »
Quote
Element is a poor choice of name, period.
Hmm, sounds fine to me.
The problem is Element Grids, what and where on earth are they located?
 :lol:

Quote
Kid:
   ...Hmm, yeah.
   Well, the Elements I had on
   me Grid are gone.

Kid:
   Oi, Serge.
   Didja remove the
   Elements from me Grid?
   
Kid:
   Hmm, if it wasn't you...
   then who did?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 08:03:10 pm by utunnels »