How you would change CT/CC to make them better.

[tuxedojacob]

I was having a discussion with my wife about ways we would change the games in the event of a remake (in our opinions), and was wondering what everyone thought of our ideas and what they would change themselves to make the Chrono games the best they could be.  This isn't so much about the failings of either game, but how they could be polished or rounded out a little more if remade today - besides the obvious graphic/sound overhauls and re-translations maybe.

--Spoilers Below--

Chrono Trigger:
--> I think the way battle entry is handled in CT is much better than the classic random battles of the day, but in a way the battles and the choice to enter into them are unavoidable, especially in new areas - I would have liked to see fewer scripted "step on this spot to start a fight" -fights.
--> In light of now knowing the story and important plot points to Cross, possibly introduce some plot springboards that would have been naturally answered in Cross - have dialogue between characters that asks "Where'd Schala go", "What happened to the future and the people in it after we saved it?" (namely Belthasar), etc.  Some things that might make the plots from both games bridge a little more smoothly.

Chrono Cross:
--> I'm sure this is a common one - reduce the number of playable characters and focus the character development in the game on those individuals - this one would upset fans of the odd playable, but I think for a game with such an enigmatic story, it would be best to really rivet the flow of the story around those few that had significant plot importance.  The others could be good, quirky, and even useful NPCs, just have little to do with following the group through the story or fighting battles.  I would say Serge/Lynx, Kid, Harle, Karsh, Riddel, Norris, and Dario as the optional character (similar to the way Magus was recruited) would be a good select few.
--> Pacing throughout the game in general, but specifically parceling out the paragraphs of text presented at the end of the game a little more evenly throughout.  The big twist could have still been that everything that happened was planned from the start, but having more tie-ins throughout the game would be good I think.

That's a good start - what does everyone else think?

[utunnels]

Hmm, two major flaws of CC in my opinion:

1. I always think having many playable characters isn't a bad thing, but the problem is they are not unique enough under such battle system -- mostly different shapes, different innates and different powers. And CC even has fewer dual/tripple techs than CT though it has 6 times more characters than CT.

2. Dialogues lakcs of some details. I know it is cool too see oneself, but most of them react too calmly to the shcoking event (Radius just ignores himself, hee). And some silly loophole like the barkeeper criticizes Lynx but ignores Viper who stands right behind him.

[gatotsu911]

@Tuxedojacob:

Chrono Trigger does have some acknowledgment of the ambiguous fate of people in altered timelines - near the end of the game (in the good ending), Lucca worries about what might happen to the people of negated timelines. It's sort of brushed aside in the game, but obviously becomes crucial in Cross.

Other than that, I think you pretty much nailed the only things that could really be improved about both games. Less unavoidable battles in Trigger, more fleshed-out characters and smoother pacing in Cross. The only thing I'd add is that I would've liked to have seen the Magus plotline followed through in Cross, or at least hinted at in some discernable way.

Also, while it does have more technical flaws than Trigger, I personally like Cross better. I just love how it's so ambitious, unorthodox, and passionate in the pursuit of its specific vision. Of course, both games are absolute masterpieces nonetheless.

[Xenterex]

After seeing a variety of story directions that could happen based on the vents of CT alone, my thoughts to 'improve' the two would be to create a set of games that play out several possibilities between CC and CT, with each branch/game almost seemingly disconnected from any other, coming off as a 'what-if' series, but then overhauling Cross to incorporate each of these branches into its own events, maybe not necessarily making the game longer, but having the primary aim to tie up story lines together better, and offering more room to allow a larger cast of characters each a unique contribution to the story and gameplay.

[SuperAlan]

This might seem crazy like a crazy idea, and might not exactly make CC better, but I think it would be neat to see Cross turned into a Strategy RPG in vein of Final Fantasy Tactics. It would make the 40 plus characters seem less daunting since each character could be more specialized to different battles and you would select your team before each battle.

Just a thought.

[Nangbaby]

Chrono Trigger improvements

*Make combination techniques more useful.  Why were players given access to all of these wonderfully animated combination techniques, only for them to be less effective than the standard attacks?  Aside from the avoidable encounters, what set Chrono Trigger apart from other RPGS was the volume of combo-techs.

*Four person parties -- Yeah, the game gives a plot based reason against them, but I always wished you could have four characters in your party instead of three.  And Quad Techs, naturally.

*Let the player explore 1999 AD before L-Day.  I understand the whole point of the game is that fact that all of the heroes (except, obviously Magus) banded together against a threat that would have never been a problem in their lifetimes.  Unlike many other RPGs of the era where you fight against a threat to the world in large part out of self-preservation, Chrono Trigger has the characters trying to alter the destiny of the world, despite the fact that they would receive no benefit.  This makes the characters more heroic from a player POV, but this also robs us of an idea of what precisely was lost.  We see the impact and aftermath of Lavos, but what condition was that world really in before it erupted?  Of course, the manner the game presents the conflict allows for a lot of thoughtful discussions about the ethics of the heroes, and of course there is a problem of knowing too much about your future.


Chrono Cross improvements

*Make it a little but more obvious how to get the actual Chrono Cross.  This is my biggest complaint about this game.  Why is it not explicitly told how to get the title element?  Imagine if Chrono Trigger didn't lead you to getting and using the Chrono Trigger...it would have felt incomplete.

*Reduce the playable characters, but given them more fleshed out roles.  Believe it or not, I like the characters in Chrono Cross, but from a gameplay and storyline perspective, many of them really served no point.   The number of playable characters could have been reduced to 20 (3 characters per element, plus Lynx and Harle) and the game would still have balance.  I would rather have 2 recruitable characters who had more depth than 40+ characters who had PS2 quality animations and models but no substance behind them.

*Have a pure yellow Mage (Sneff does not count).  Evey single element has a balance of magic users and physical types....except yellow.  At best you get is Mel, but there's no Yellow Equivalent of Riddel, or Razzly, or  Miki....etc.

[utunnels]

This might seem crazy like a crazy idea, and might not exactly make CC better, but I think it would be neat to see Cross turned into a Strategy RPG in vein of Final Fantasy Tactics. It would make the 40 plus characters seem less daunting since each character could be more specialized to different battles and you would select your team before each battle.

Just a thought.

Not really crazy, but could be more interesting than current battle system.
Though I don't think I have enough patience to play a strategy game now.

[gatotsu911]

See, I liked the whole mechanic of "collecting" characters, but I just wish the game had allowed you to make use of the vast number of characters who will inevitably be left out of your party. A system like Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops or Peace Walker (in which you can assign recruited characters outside of your active party to a support infrastructure for developing upgrades, strengthening characters, and various other functions) would have been a good idea, though it would have also required the entire game to be structured with it in mind in order to maintain balance.

[SuperAlan]

See, I liked the whole mechanic of "collecting" characters, but I just wish the game had allowed you to make use of the vast number of characters who will inevitably be left out of your party. A system like Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops or Peace Walker (in which you can assign recruited characters outside of your active party to a support infrastructure for developing upgrades, strengthening characters, and various other functions) would have been a good idea, though it would have also required the entire game to be structured with it in mind in order to maintain balance.

This is kind of what I was talking about with making it a strategy rpg. 40+ characters in a regular rpg is too much, but in a strategy rpg having 40 characters isn't a big problem, especially if you tweak each one slightly to make everyone useful at some point in the game (I.E. Irenes and Marcy could move quicker over water, making them better for water levels, etc, etc)

[Acacia Sgt]

For the whole SRPG idea, I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference...

Even for a SRPG, 40+ is still quite the big party size. The only difference you would be making is to increase the size of characters to use at once from 3 to 10+ at most. Even in the end you would end up with a lot of people warming the bench since you only focused on a selected few to use. *Points to those SRPGs with 50+ characters and/or able to hire/create them*

Then again, it could work out in the end, and CC does strip you of your party members at one point, forcing you to use others...

[SuperAlan]

I think the main reason a SRPG leaves you with bench warmers is because many characters end up under leveled. If you swapped out a traditional level system for Cross's level system you could have an SRPG where every character is always usable. I dunno, with 40 some characters it's nearly impossible to create a game where every character is used.

[utunnels]

I dunno, with 40 some characters it's nearly impossible to create a game where every character is used.

Well, actually many characters are optional.
Many gamers enjoy collecting items though only a few of the items are valuable. So why can't characters become collectors' goals?

[SuperAlan]

I dunno, with 40 some characters it's nearly impossible to create a game where every character is used.

Well, actually many characters are optional.
Many gamers enjoy collecting items though only a few of the items are valuable. So why can't characters become collectors' goals?

This is true. Heck technically pokemon had 150 different characters when it was first released and still you only end up using 6 of them, so in that regard i guess chrono cross doesn't seem that too bad.

There's a completely off the wall idea: Turn chrono cross into a bizzare pokemon like adventure where Serge is trying to catch them all in order to save the future.

[gatotsu911]

Like I said, I think the handheld Metal Gear Solid games (despite not being RPGs) are a great example of how playable characters can be turned into a resource outside of the party. I'm currently playing Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, too, and it has a pretty creative system for encouraging to spend some time with every one of the playable demons.

[SilentMartyr]

Great question! These types of topics always appeal to me.

Trigger:
~ Allow Magus to have double and rockless triple techs. Yes I understand that it helped support his character development by having only single techs, but at the same time I was always turned off from using him because of that. Like nang said, the multi techs are what gave Trigger's combat system a lasting personality. Giving Magus those options would have made team building an even more varied success.

~ Marle should have had a group heal instead of Frog. Cure 2 is so rarely needed with her healing power, most of the time a group heal would be more profitable to use in situations where a teammate is at very low health. Frog should have got the single target spells, making him the healer for the group is so sad. You want to smash with Frog, not sit back and heal. 

~ Give Ayla a sidequest with some development to her character! I was always disappointed that she was given no love. You'd think with the upcoming ice age the staff would have something to work with. I understand that she is hard to write for but c'mon they should have at least tried! (sigh)

Cross:
~ Definitely cut it down to between fifteen and twenty characters. The oversaturation of people to have to pay attention to draws away from the main story arc. Making a complicated story is one thing, but surrounding that complex core is a outer shell of minor characters that if you happen to recruit will bring in flavorful but overall meaningless fluff to the story.

~A greater variety of multi techs would have made battle less redundant. When I first started the game I envisioned this grand new version of the Trigger battle system. It ended up being quite vanilla until a boss fight where the games mechanics really shine. One of the things that made the New Game + so fun was the ability to try out teams you hadn't before and try techs out you hadn't really used much or at all. This somehow got lost in the translation and it is a shame really.