Author Topic: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control  (Read 1331 times)

ZealKnight

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Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« on: January 16, 2010, 04:01:21 pm »
Anyone else think this is just a fad in video games? CNN had something on Natal the other day basically saying videogames will be good for the first time. I don't think good games could be made with it. It reminds me how videogames were before nintendo came out with their "seal of approval" all just being gimmicks to sell things and make fast money.

Romana

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 04:23:11 pm »
I think it's just a natural stage of evolution. It was gonna have to happen sooner or later. It really changes everything though; games have to programmed almost completely differently, especially with Natal. I'm looking forward to it, to be honest.

Oh and it's official that the new DS is gonna have motion control, too.

V_Translanka

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 04:42:41 pm »
To me it's just like all of the 3D crap getting around now. It's a nice idea, but how many people are going to get behind it in a depression? More importantly: how many dedicated developers? I also don't buy into thinking it's the next step in gaming. There may be new ways it could be incorporated into gaming, but to me, pressing a button to make a character move or do something will always be faster than doing the motion myself...It's why I hate DS games that force you to use some hokey touch screen just because it's there (LoZ: PH).

Dapifer

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2010, 05:00:05 pm »
A tool that tells the videogame world to do exactly what my mind is thinking?

It's called Control Pad. I am sticking with my controller thank you.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 05:01:54 pm by Dapifer »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 05:16:02 pm »
When the DS came out, people said that the two screens, and the touch screen, would be gimmicks. The touch screen has now caught on, and there have been a variety of games that execute well on the two screen setup. My point being, it's too early to tell what's a gimmick and what is a new interesting feature until it's been out in the wild for a bit.

tripehound

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 05:58:30 pm »
Well, firstly, few are going to trust CNN, of all things, as a source for information relating to the future of video gaming, as their ability to do the news properly is rather debatable to begin with, and that's supposedly their forte!

I largely agree with RD's perspective: It's way too early to tell if motion controls are going to have a lasting impact. It's getting publicity at the moment because it's allowing a different audience a certain kind of accessibility to video games that they may not have had before. Whether or not it sticks will likely depend on whether that audience continues to find motion-controlled games as a source of reliable entertainment.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it won't completely redefine gaming, but rather launch a new, more refined genre or style, as the technology develops. Motion-controls, as they are now, are just an alternate means of input, like the analog stick is an alternative to the D-Pad. As players become more familiar with motion-control schemes, it's likely going to become integrated into mainstream gameplay, and will become an option that players may or may not choose to experience. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we get future copies of Madden NFL that allow players to choose to make a pass by using the Wiimote, or some other peripheral, to track a person's arm motion, or traditionally by mashing the analog stick and the X button.

As for saturating the market with gimmicks, I'm not worried. We've got a long way to go before we hit a repeat of the 80's crash. It's cliché, but all one needs for a reminder of those times is a copy of Atari ET. I'll take a motion-controlled Bejeweled clone over that tripe any day.

@ FaFniR: Do you have an article to site, by any chance? I'm curious to see how far along that DS concept is, or if it's still just fudge spewing out of the rumor mill. Found one.

Quote
If 256 by 192 lines of resolution make you squint to sort fingers from hands or eyes from eyebrows in 3D games, imagine a version of the Nintendo DS with twice or more per screen.

No one's talking tech specs yet, but in an interview with Japanese news portal Asahi.com, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata says a new DS is in the works that'll boost the handheld's visual verticals and horizontals appreciably.

According to Asahi, Iwata confirmed the DS is being developed in-house and will include both a high-definition video display as well as a motion sensor. Yep, a motion sensor. While accelerometer tech hasn't worked out so well for Sony's PS3 (the SIXAXIS gamepad, that is) it's pretty popular with Apple's iPhone, and I'm talking everything from games like Super Monkey Ball to "tilt" scrolling to carpentry tools.

Available when? Iwata understandably wouldn't comment, instead noting that the DS is experiencing record sales in the US.

Translation: Not soon.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 10:14:19 pm by tripehound »

ZealKnight

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 10:16:59 pm »
When the DS came out, people said that the two screens, and the touch screen, would be gimmicks. The touch screen has now caught on, and there have been a variety of games that execute well on the two screen setup. My point being, it's too early to tell what's a gimmick and what is a new interesting feature until it's been out in the wild for a bit.

Yeah true but I think the wii is proof enough. Even Nintendo only added gimmicks. I mean with the whole gravity thing in galaxy I could see the spin being useful, however still its only a gimmick in Zelda arguably the best Nintendo series. Another thing is look at the ds games, even the best ones have problems with using both screens FULLY.  I don't think I've played one game that didn't have just some map on one screen, or had no use for the buttons. I have no reason to use the all the buttons. Some games seem like they' be better on PSP. The wii is a gimmick itself to me. I would much rather lose the motion control all together.

neo-fusion

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 01:38:12 am »
The only thing natal will be good for is sports games.

Let's play Final Fantasy with natal... oh wait how the hell would you do that?

It will only last for so long. It's not the future of gaming. Virtual Reality is the next step and by all means thats a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG WAY OFF.

Magus22

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 03:29:32 am »
A tool that tells the videogame world to do exactly what my mind is thinking?

It's called Control Pad. I am sticking with my controller thank you.

here here!!

I think it is pure rubbish myself. I'll keep my controller too. Got to keep my fingers exercised!! :lol:

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 05:06:22 pm »
Yeah true but I think the wii is proof enough. Even Nintendo only added gimmicks.

The pointer functionality is well used by a number of high quality games. The balance board, while not marketed at hardcore gamers, has been a tremendous success. WiiMotion Plus doesn't have enough software at this point to really say one way or the other. "Waggle" controls I'm not sold on. There are a few usage cases where it makes sense, but I feel a lot of the time it's being used because the functionality is present.

I mean with the whole gravity thing in galaxy I could see the spin being useful, however still its only a gimmick in Zelda arguably the best Nintendo series.

Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game. Given that a new Zelda game, built from the ground up for the Wii, is coming, I reserve judgment on Wii control schemes as related to the Zelda series.

Another thing is look at the ds games, even the best ones have problems with using both screens FULLY.  I don't think I've played one game that didn't have just some map on one screen, or had no use for the buttons. I have no reason to use the all the buttons.

I'm not sure how you define fully. For some types of games, having a data screen is very useful in of itself. Kirby's Canvas Curse is an example of a fantastic game for the DS that doesn't use the buttons, although I don't know why you think the touch screen needs to be either the only control scheme or a gimmick. Frankly, given the popularity of the iPhone as a gaming platform, I think at this point the touchscreen is firmly "non-gimmick", at least for the moment.

I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence. Could you clarify that?

Some games seem like they' be better on PSP. The wii is a gimmick itself to me. I would much rather lose the motion control all together.

Some games surely are better on the PSP. Each platform has it's strengths and weaknesses. This is true independent of gimmicks. As for the Wii, I'm not prepared to argue against it's sales figures, although I suppose we'll have to wait and see till next generation how much was truly gimmicky.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2010, 08:14:02 pm »
Just wanted to chip in and say I have a Wii and I love the motion control aspects. Play Mad World, or any rail shooter (esp. Dead Space Extraction) and you'll see it's not a gimmick, it CAN be immersive. The problem is that the market is saturated with games for children and if you stumble onto any of these, then yes, the controls are gimmicky and easy. Hell, play Mario Kart on Wii and you'll see not only is it fluid and immersive, but actually adds a degree of difficulty.

That said, I do not look forward to motion controls on my PS3. I like it as is.
I also like my Wii as is.

ZealKnight

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 12:52:46 am »
Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game. Given that a new Zelda game, built from the ground up for the Wii, is coming, I reserve judgment on Wii control schemes as related to the Zelda series.

I keep forgetting it wasn't made for Wii.

I'm not sure how you define fully. For some types of games, having a data screen is very useful in of itself. Kirby's Canvas Curse is an example of a fantastic game for the DS that doesn't use the buttons, although I don't know why you think the touch screen needs to be either the only control scheme or a gimmick. Frankly, given the popularity of the iPhone as a gaming platform, I think at this point the touchscreen is firmly "non-gimmick", at least for the moment.

I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence. Could you clarify that? Some games surely are better on the PSP. Each platform has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Sure I'll clarify this. I'm not trying to take from great games like Canvas Curse. I really liked that game. However, that game could have been on one screen, and had no use for the buttons. Why not just get rid of the buttons all together and make one touch large screen. Other games, don't need the touch at all. Honestly there is no reason to have any RPG on the DS when all you do is touch instead of scroll. In fact the biggest problem I have with most RPGs on the DS is that they would all be better on the PSP. Sands of Destruction has some real theatrical moments however they look silly because of the DS, same with FF12:RW.

This is true independent of gimmicks. As for the Wii, I'm not prepared to argue against it's sales figures, although I suppose we'll have to wait and see till next generation how much was truly gimmicky.

This is true. I don't know if it will stick as a real gaming element, however it definitely will sell every January when people try to do their fake new years resolutions.

Trebuchet

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 04:36:11 am »
Replacing the buttons with buttons on the touch screen is an incredibly bad idea. Go play Megaman on the iPhone. It doesn't work as well due to the buttons being on the screen. The buttons are easy and fast to press, every single one.

And on the subject of RPGs, maybe they're targeted for the audience that owns the DS. For example, I haven't played Sands of Destruction, but I know it's an RPG. And knowing that there are few reasons for an RPG lover to own a PSP (Dissidia, Star Ocean FD and Star Ocean 2, among a few others), compared to the huge library of RPGs on the DS, and how some people may own a DS for RPGs (I'm an example, as well as a few friends), the game will probably sell better on the DS.

ZealKnight

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 01:44:10 pm »
And on the subject of RPGs, maybe they're targeted for the audience that owns the DS. For example, I haven't played Sands of Destruction, but I know it's an RPG. And knowing that there are few reasons for an RPG lover to own a PSP (Dissidia, Star Ocean FD and Star Ocean 2, among a few others), compared to the huge library of RPGs on the DS, and how some people may own a DS for RPGs (I'm an example, as well as a few friends), the game will probably sell better on the DS.

That's not really the argument. I understand that the audience is bigger but I'm saying the overall quality of the games would be better on the PSP.

MagilsugaM

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Re: Natal, wiimotes, and all motion control
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 11:41:05 pm »
And on the subject of RPGs, maybe they're targeted for the audience that owns the DS. For example, I haven't played Sands of Destruction, but I know it's an RPG. And knowing that there are few reasons for an RPG lover to own a PSP (Dissidia, Star Ocean FD and Star Ocean 2, among a few others), compared to the huge library of RPGs on the DS, and how some people may own a DS for RPGs (I'm an example, as well as a few friends), the game will probably sell better on the DS.

That's not really the argument. I understand that the audience is bigger but I'm saying the overall quality of the games would be better on the PSP.

That's true since none of those games actually use the 2 screen touch screen style. I mean Rpg's can easily be played on the DS with Dpad and buttons too.
There is no excuse but those games in DS have nostalgia feel of the PSOne RPG's and also som SNES ones and I reckon that's why it's sells better. PSP is like a portable PS2. DS mmm portable... protable... 2 psx on one :P.


Regarding the motion's controls. The only one I like so far is the Playstation one. It's like it sets you inside the game.
It works terribly well and it's what the Wiimote should have been when it first came out.  Now with 3d technology it would be awesome to see what degree of virtual reality they can do. Natal it's just Eyetoy with depth percetion so it's like to eyetoys together ... That thing wasn't even that popular. I reckon if it was good. Nintendo would have done it before Microsoft.