Author Topic: my rant/beef against religion and antheism  (Read 613 times)

chi_z

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my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« on: January 15, 2010, 01:15:33 am »
So I was having an intelligent debate on youtube the other day. Yes I said intelligent. Predictably enough, the fellow decided to get moronic on me. We were discussing satanism of all things. The person said they were a satanist but that they don't believe in satan. That in and of itself is a contradiction. He pulled the Anton LaVey crap on me, which I knew he would. For those that don't know there are many forms of satanism:
theistic: belief in the actual deity of Lucifer
LaVeyan: worship of the self, does not belief in ANY deities, ie atheist (or so they say)
To be a christian you must worship christ, to be muslim you must worship allah. to be a satanist you don't have to worship satan........where's the logic at? truth be told these LaVeyan  "'Satanists'" are a bunch of fags (and I'm saying this in shock value at the risk of sounding like an ignorant raving madman/8th grader/immature loser). They say they worship the self, promote the individual.  Yet they still do all the silly stereotypical satanic stuff. Hell, they go even further than that, these dumbasses have inverse catholic masses, satanic weddings and even satanic holydays. In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pwAOSwHuTQ) LaVey can be seen dressed in what appears to be a Halloween costume,chanting the name of random mythological beasts. Wait,  I thought this was supposed to be a no nonsense religion of self worship? Is it just me, or is the guy doin it for the shock appeal? Indeed.

He is putting on a stage act to get attention of those who would otherwise pay him no regard. This isn't satanism at all, it's free spiritism disguised as satanism so as to attract more people, offend more ppl, and just in general reach more ppl. Do you really think LaVey's cult would have gotten half as big as it is if he didn't sell it as satanism? He'd be just another intellectual spouting his views of society (remind you of anyone?). LaVey was nothing more than an entrepreneur, he knew what it took to sell his product (idea). And believe me, all religions are selling a specific product. So please stop tying your goodhearted messages of morals, integrity, and honesty, with that of religion, you silly humans. It only prolongs the time before the masses realize that religion gets in the way of these morals, integrity, and honesty. It's a fairy tale that has a moral to the story. That's all religion is. Wouldn't it be much better to skip the elves, goliaths, and kings, and just be told the lesson of the story?

here is a screen cap, I am chi_z of course. start from the bottom and go on to the top kiddies!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/ringmaster430/satan-1.png
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 01:29:19 am by chi_z »

tushantin

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 02:14:55 am »
Quote
The person said they were a satanist but that they don't believe in satan. That in and of itself is a contradiction.
It's actually not. Satanism was founded on the grounds of Christian accusation towards other religion that was said to be "demonic". Either clear misunderstanding or some variation of the Bible/Pseudo-Bible claimed those deities were in fact Demons, and this caused massacre of so many non-Christians. The non-Christians didn't find it wrong to worship the deities their ancestors have been worshiping since millenia, and if Christians say "they're worshiping Satan", then they don't care about it. So basically Satanism is merely a "term" based by Christian prejudice.

As for the contradiction on the belief of Satans/Gods, you're dead wrong. What makes an Athiest? 1) Belief in supernatural powers, and 2) Tearing away from religion. For myself, I'm religious on the grounds of Hinduism, but my personal belief is that the "deities" worshiped by the Hindus are not Gods, but merely past historical figures. Similarly, Anton LeVey is a kind of Satanism that consider personification of several aspects of humanity. For instance, Baphomet for Fertility, Anubis for Judgement, etc. Personification, and nothing more. This isn't something moronic, just plain logical.

Quote
theistic: belief in the actual deity of Lucifer
Only the Luciferians belief that.  :lol: Other types of Satanism usually go for different deities, such as Enki, Horus or Seth.

Quote
LaVeyan: worship of the self, does not belief in ANY deities, ie atheist (or so they say)
You can say that they are sort of a bind of both religion and atheism. That's quite rare in the society.

Quote
Yet they still do all the silly stereotypical satanic stuff. Hell, they go even further than that, these dumbasses have inverse catholic masses, satanic weddings and even satanic holydays.
There are many Satanists that actually give Satanism a bad name, similar to how most Christians have given a bad reputation to their religion. The Black Masses, for instance, was out of hatred towards Christianity itself. Most Satanists have actually been against these kinds of practices, but some still consider it "sacred". I wonder why.

Quote
This isn't satanism at all, it's free spiritism disguised as satanism so as to attract more people, offend more ppl, and just in general reach more ppl.
I agree with you there.

Quote
It only prolongs the time before the masses realize that religion gets in the way of these morals, integrity, and honesty.
I'm kinda tired of explaining over and over again. Taking religion in general takes humanity in general. Not because religion solely symbolizes humanity (in fact it does not) but because what you apply towards religion COULD ALSO be applied towards humanity as whole, especially atheists. If there's a flaw in religion, speak against it. But if you're speaking against religion in general, you're just being one of those fools who've caused the greatest misunderstandings in history which in turn caused all out wars and massacres.

Quote
It's a fairy tale that has a moral to the story. That's all religion is. Wouldn't it be much better to skip the elves, goliaths, and kings, and just be told the lesson of the story?
Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about!  :P

And I can't read your screenshot. XD

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 05:17:14 pm »
What makes an Athiest? 1) Belief in supernatural powers, and 2) Tearing away from religion.

Neither of these things are defining characteristics of an atheist. The defining characteristic of an atheist is the absence of belief in divine entities.

tushantin

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 02:42:34 am »
Neither of these things are defining characteristics of an atheist. The defining characteristic of an atheist is the absence of belief in divine entities.
Ah, sorry, I mistyped there. I meant to say that the things that made an atheist are...

1) LACK of belief in supernatural powers, and 2) Tearing away from religion.

ZeaLitY

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 12:11:09 pm »
Not all atheists tear away from religion. Some are socially pressured into keeping their lack of belief quiet. Then there's the unusual case of Mother Teresa, who was an atheist, but decided to continue being involved in the Catholic church.

Sad, because she built an empire of lies and was a hypocrite of suffering.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 05:08:01 pm »
Neither of these things are defining characteristics of an atheist. The defining characteristic of an atheist is the absence of belief in divine entities.
Ah, sorry, I mistyped there. I meant to say that the things that made an atheist are...

1) LACK of belief in supernatural powers, and 2) Tearing away from religion.

You're still incorrect. Read my prior post again.

tushantin

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 11:32:35 pm »
Neither of these things are defining characteristics of an atheist. The defining characteristic of an atheist is the absence of belief in divine entities.
Ah, sorry, I mistyped there. I meant to say that the things that made an atheist are...

1) LACK of belief in supernatural powers, and 2) Tearing away from religion.

You're still incorrect. Read my prior post again.
I still don't see what you mean, considering Divine Entities pertains to Supernatural higher powers. Supernatural forces may even be considered as Daemons, Sylphs, Faeries, Angels, etc. which are quite common in religion.

Not all atheists tear away from religion...
I don't know much about Mother Teresa being an atheist at heart, but what I do know is that you're talking about Demi-Atheists. Demi-Atheists (or like I said before, "partly Atheists") are those who do not believe in the existence of higher forces such as Gods or Satans, and yet maintain their beliefs in religion as a social order or a "Family-like" thing, or anything else for that matter. The reasons for Demi-Atheists to belong to some religion may vary; be it being enforced to be religious, or on their own free-will.

In fact, I'm one of those Demi-Atheists, but I maintain my belief in religion mostly for its social impact, heritage, fraternity, values, and other sort. And it's not just me, mind you. There are several thousands, and possibly millions, like me.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 08:08:50 pm »
I don't know much about Mother Teresa being an atheist at heart, but what I do know is that you're talking about Demi-Atheists. Demi-Atheists (or like I said before, "partly Atheists") are those who do not believe in the existence of higher forces such as Gods or Satans, and yet maintain their beliefs in religion as a social order or a "Family-like" thing, or anything else for that matter. The reasons for Demi-Atheists to belong to some religion may vary; be it being enforced to be religious, or on their own free-will.

In fact, I'm one of those Demi-Atheists, but I maintain my belief in religion mostly for its social impact, heritage, fraternity, values, and other sort. And it's not just me, mind you. There are several thousands, and possibly millions, like me.

Your construct of a "demi-atheist" is based on your false assumption that atheism requires a rejection of religion. Someone who does not believe in gods, but still has a religion is equally an atheist as someone who rejects gods and religion. No more, no less. There is no such thing as a "demi-atheist", and indeed, there cannot be such a thing, as there is only one defining characteristic of atheists, and it is entirely binary.

neo-fusion

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 09:52:31 pm »
"Quote
theistic: belief in the actual deity of Lucifer
Only the Luciferians belief that.   Other types of Satanism usually go for different deities, such as Enki, Horus or Seth."

They may even believe in ron paul... lol.

tushantin

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 11:22:43 pm »
They may even believe in ron paul... lol.
:lol:

ShoeMagus

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Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2010, 03:39:27 pm »
So I was having an intelligent debate on youtube the other day. Yes I said intelligent. Predictably enough, the fellow decided to get moronic on me. We were discussing satanism of all things. The person said they were a satanist but that they don't believe in satan. That in and of itself is a contradiction. He pulled the Anton LaVey crap on me, which I knew he would. For those that don't know there are many forms of satanism:
theistic: belief in the actual deity of Lucifer
LaVeyan: worship of the self, does not belief in ANY deities, ie atheist (or so they say)
To be a christian you must worship christ, to be muslim you must worship allah. to be a satanist you don't have to worship satan........where's the logic at? truth be told these LaVeyan  "'Satanists'" are a bunch of fags (and I'm saying this in shock value at the risk of sounding like an ignorant raving madman/8th grader/immature loser). They say they worship the self, promote the individual.  Yet they still do all the silly stereotypical satanic stuff. Hell, they go even further than that, these dumbasses have inverse catholic masses, satanic weddings and even satanic holydays. In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pwAOSwHuTQ) LaVey can be seen dressed in what appears to be a Halloween costume,chanting the name of random mythological beasts. Wait,  I thought this was supposed to be a no nonsense religion of self worship? Is it just me, or is the guy doin it for the shock appeal? Indeed.


Yes I see what you mean! Christians worship Christ! Muslims worship Allah! Buddhists worship....Buddha? Oh wait they don't necessarily, do they? Okay Taoists worship...Tao? No again! Narrow definitions of what religion are supposed to be are amusing, but they're not generally accepted. The figure of Buddha in Buddhism is not actually worshipped, and some Buddhists don't even set much store in Siddhartha Gautama (there's a Zen Koan that says if you meet Buddha, then you kill him). Buddha is thus a concept, a symbol of their philosophy. Such it is with Satan in Satanism.

It's a good thing there are no Atheist holidays, yes?

Many religions reject the natural world and reason in favor of an afterlife and faith. Atheism rejects the irrationalities of faith. Satanism is kind of a mid point between these. They embrace the earthly, mundane world, but also the fantastic elements of religions. Rituals, mythological symbols. These are built into human nature, and Satanism seeks to embrace and use them rather than to throw them out. There's nothing really illogical or stupid about this. Then you'll ask, "Well why use Satan, isn't that just for shock?" I'd say no. Thanks to the work of John Milton, the Christian Devil has become a heroic, romantic figure. The Gnostics before that viewed the Serpent (traditionally associated with the Devil) as giving the gift of knowledge to humanity (painting God as the bad guy in this instance). Outside of Abrahamic myth, devilish characters often play beneficial roles for humanity. Prometheus is an obvious choice. "Satan" is just the most recognizable form in the West of an age old archetype that they view as the personification of their philosophy.

There's nothing really wrong with Satanism other than the seemingly natural and widespread prejudice against it.