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Can Videogames be considered as art? (explain)

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Author Topic: Can Videogames be considered as art?  (Read 1681 times)

V_Translanka

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 07:04:36 pm »
Anything can be art. The real discussion comes from what is or is not GOOD art. Video games are obviously art as they take like dozens of artists to even make...>_>

I would add the proviso that art must be created, and--although I'm not sure about this part yet--with at least some deliberate intent. So, in other words, nature and unintentional works would be out.

How is nature not art if it is the subject of so much of it? I mean, if you take a brilliant picture of the great outdoors are you saying that the picture itself is the art? The subject of the art is as much the art as the creation of the art, intended or not. Art is based on perception. You could fall down a flight of stairs and impale yourself in the face with a screwdriver, but if someone came along and liked the look of it, they could go ahead and call it art and not be wrong...There's also fractals to think about...art from chaos...genetics! If DNA isn't some kind of amazing artistry (random act of the cosmos or no), then I don't know what is.

GenesisOne

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 08:17:56 pm »

I could take it a step further and say that if video games are art, then they deserve the right to receive subsidiary funding from government grants to produce their next project.

On a different tangent, I'm finding it to be increasingly difficult to find a game that's truly avant-garde, a game that truly stands out from the others as a unique metaphyiscal experience to the participant.  I mean, how many avant-garde artists would be willing to put in the time and money to see their unique, thought-provoking opus be chiseled down and smoothed out so it would look like the next RPG of FPS or MMORPG?

The hard part for avant-garde post-modern artists is deciding whether or not to embrace commercialism. Do they allow their work to be hyped and exploited by a market that's simply hungry for the next new game? Do they participate in a system that turns high art into low art so it's better suited for mass consumption? Of course, when an artist goes commercial, he makes a mockery of his status as an outsider and free thinker. He buys into the crass and shallow values art has been known to transcend. In essence, the artists trades the integrity of his art for riches and fame.

The video game industry being multi-billion strong, it's not too far-fetched to claim that the arts are under attack in this industry.  As such, what was the last game that you played in the past decade that truly made an impact on your senses and left you both with an ndying impression and unwavering respect for that game and its artists?  Obviously, CT is one of them.  Altered Beast would be another for me.  One final game that made me truly think and comprehend its contents was Freedom Fighters.

What says you?

Lord J Esq

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2010, 08:50:58 pm »
@V: You make good points. I'm not evolved enough on the position to stick to any guns at the moment.

@Genesis: Look for the indie games! They're out there, and there are more all the time. They're just harder to find.

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2010, 11:48:37 pm »
Ok, I dont mean could they eventually. I mean can you consider modern videogames as art.

Anything can be art. The real discussion comes from what is or is not GOOD art. Video games are obviously art as they take like dozens of artists to even make...>_>

I guess I thought it was understood that I meant that V. I mean could videogames ever be considered such art that we may one day start to learn about them in classes. Similarly to movies and literature.

But we already do learn about video games in classes! It just depends on the class and the teacher. There was a bit about video games in my last history class, and in another class today I had a lesson about how different types of walls and windows in video games influence players. Or does the fact that there are whole colleges and degree programs dedicated to video games not matter for the purposes of this discussion?

MagilsugaM

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 01:57:14 am »
Yes... video games will always be art... you cannot deny that they are not.
From the engaging stories,
To the beautiful graphics,
even little parts that makes us laugh,
and those that makes us cry.

The video games are expression of feelings, music, sound, video, story, images, etc.
Every piece of art are in one package.
Every piece of a videogame is art!

Uboa

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 04:44:56 am »
I could take it a step further and say that if video games are art, then they deserve the right to receive subsidiary funding from government grants to produce their next project.

On a different tangent, I'm finding it to be increasingly difficult to find a game that's truly avant-garde, a game that truly stands out from the others as a unique metaphyiscal experience to the participant.  I mean, how many avant-garde artists would be willing to put in the time and money to see their unique, thought-provoking opus be chiseled down and smoothed out so it would look like the next RPG of FPS or MMORPG?

The hard part for avant-garde post-modern artists is deciding whether or not to embrace commercialism. Do they allow their work to be hyped and exploited by a market that's simply hungry for the next new game? Do they participate in a system that turns high art into low art so it's better suited for mass consumption? Of course, when an artist goes commercial, he makes a mockery of his status as an outsider and free thinker. He buys into the crass and shallow values art has been known to transcend. In essence, the artists trades the integrity of his art for riches and fame.

Regarding the second paragraph, after I played Yume Nikki (the game that inspired all of my avatar art) I thought that nothing would be cooler than a finely chiseled, enormously vast, breathtakingly rendered, say, PS3 version of "Dream Diary" (English translation of Yume Nikki).  Imagine a game where the entire point was to explore an enormous dark dream world which actually operated on "dream logic".  Imagine being able to get lost in that game for hours.  Imagine it taking decades for players to figure find all of the content!  Doesn't the prospect sound enticing?

And, regarding the third, I don't think that anybody is holding it against Pixel for allowing Cave Story to be ported to WiiWare.  Most of the fans of the game are happy to be able to support him financially, although undoubtedly a lot of money will go to the studio that is currently trying to finalize the port.  (I wish they'd hurry up!)

Quote
The video game industry being multi-billion strong, it's not too far-fetched to claim that the arts are under attack in this industry.  As such, what was the last game that you played in the past decade that truly made an impact on your senses and left you both with an ndying impression and unwavering respect for that game and its artists?  Obviously, CT is one of them.  Altered Beast would be another for me.  One final game that made me truly think and comprehend its contents was Freedom Fighters.

What says you?
Well, I began with one game and got carried away!  I also went ahead and counted games that I originally played over a decade ago.  Hope the rule-bending comes across as warranted.

First, there is Metroid Prime.  Metroid Prime is the game in which I became most engrossed in the story, the visuals/world, and the action.  The world of Tallon was breathtaking, the Chozo ruins such a source of fascination, and the Space Pirate forts and Phazon mines daunting to infiltrate and disrupt.  Taking out the Omega Pirate is still one of my favorite video game memories of all time, and I remember for weeks after I played that game I was worried that I would hear the "Chozo Ghost" theme when I turned the lights off anywhere.  Of course, now I think I might see Uboa...

And, on that note, I find the game Yume Nikki to be a real treat for the senses.  It obviously impacted me, but honestly mostly for the reason that I felt it blurred the line between video game and modern art more so than any game I've ever played.  The game also has a very diverse and creative fan base, and one that is surprisingly devoted and imaginative with regard to coming up with theories about the story behind the game.

Cave Story has earned Pixel my unwavering respect, seeing as he programmed the game, did all of the artwork, and composed the story and music by himself, with some input from his kids, apparently!  It took him five years to complete, and I'm amazed that it did not take him longer given the quality of the game.

I never played them myself, but watching a playthrough of Disgaea and a half-playthrough of Disgaea 2 was great fun.  Those games are amazingly fine-tuned tactical RPGs, they're remarkable to behold, and their stories are captivating and sweet.

ActRaiser!  What visuals!  What music!  What an original concept for a game!  Part Civilization, part Wizards and Warriors.  Terrific dungeons and boss fights!  Love it!  Got it on WiiWare!

Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore!  Excellent visuals and music in both, but Secret of Evermore just hits closer to home for me.  Probably because the dark ancient/antiquity and machine worlds in the game, and the quirky humor.  (Femur of fury anyone?)  Not to mention the fact that (SPOILER ALERT!) the whole world is actually just a (virtual?) manifestation of several people's personal utopias via a machine.  Cecil from FFIV also makes an appearance at one point, something which earns this game a gazillion bonus points in my book.(End spoiler - Sorry that I'm unaware of how to properly tag spoilers here.)

And, of course, Chrono Trigger for obvious reasons.  And, I'll also say Super Metroid for obvious reasons, because I cannot think of anything not to like about that game.

Edited a day later:  Realized I'd confused avant-garde and post modern with "independent" in my second point.  But, going back to Dream Diary for a moment, if there was a push to remake Dream Diary in the way that I described I don't know that it would be met with criticism just because it would be commercial.  The game would still be a transcendental experience, regardless of the fact that it happened to be sold at, say, Toys R' Us.  I think the hardest part about an "avant-garde" artist working with a studio to produce something for the market would be that they might want to hold very tight control over the production of their vision.  But, that's not necessarily a given. 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 06:00:20 pm by Uboa »

Thought

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 12:14:38 pm »
The hard part for avant-garde post-modern artists is deciding whether or not to embrace commercialism.

Oh I disagree, the hard part for avant-garde post-modern artists is producing anything worth producing. Rejecting commercialism (while hoping to profit from it regardless) seems to be fairly standard, really.

If one is worried about being those things, one will inherently produce poorer products. One of the great wonders of art is that it resonates with us on so many levels. Intellectual levels, yes, but also physiological levels as well. A desire to be an avant-garde post-modern outsider free-thinking artist comes from the forebrain, but art bridges all the parts of the brain, fore- mid- and hind-.  It is as complex as thinking, as powerful as emotion, and as fundamental as breathing! It is quite possible to over-think when one is creating a work of art; some tasks are better performed by other parts of our brain.

V_Translanka

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Re: Can Videogames be considered as art?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2010, 04:37:40 pm »
The video game industry being multi-billion strong, it's not too far-fetched to claim that the arts are under attack in this industry.  As such, what was the last game that you played in the past decade that truly made an impact on your senses and left you both with an ndying impression and unwavering respect for that game and its artists?  Obviously, CT is one of them.  Altered Beast would be another for me.  One final game that made me truly think and comprehend its contents was Freedom Fighters.

What says you?

I wasn't going to go down this route with you, but since Uboa already opened it up I guess I'll have to throw in Okami, which was fairly recent (1 or 2 years ago, I want to say)...It could also depend on your definition because approaching it from an art standpoint or a gaming art standpoint can be two different things. You could be seeing it as purely aesthetic or also as an overall experience...either way, Okami definitely fits the bill.

I think someone might have mentioned that a lot of the artistry coming out now seems to be coming from downloadable content. Flower (PS3) seems to be one of those examples. Maybe it's because these independent developers are trying really hard to stand out or maybe because they aren't hampered by pre-established ideals as to how games "should be"...