Poll

What's your take on the C&D stuff?

SE's being overzealous and liticious.
12 (37.5%)
I don't like it, but SE is still acting in its own copyright interest fairly.
18 (56.3%)
The projects should have seen it coming.
1 (3.1%)
Don't care. SE can do whatever the heck they want.
1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: May 21, 2005, 11:40:47 pm

Author Topic: 5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?  (Read 4543 times)

Eggith Cyrene

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2005, 05:59:29 pm »
But they can not win any suit filed against any said enterprise because the Creator or prople invovled are not recieving financial compensation. They just want to scare them and make them stop for whatever reason. retarded though it may be.

Sentenal

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2005, 07:00:13 pm »
That doesn't matter.  Its copyright enfringment that would result in loss of possible sales of FF:C, however small the sales may be.

V_Translanka

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2005, 09:04:41 pm »
Not to mention any future enterprises into the series itself. People may  not dig their version and call off the whole series because of it. It's all just possibilities. You don't want someone doing what you could be doing with your own stuff. It's just not right...judiciously(?) even.

but w/e :?

ZeaLitY

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2005, 02:39:42 am »
The results from other forums:

SE's being overzealous and liticious.     

34

I don't like it, but SE is still acting in its own copyright interest fairly.    

56

The projects should have seen it coming.    

26

Don't care. SE can do whatever the heck they want.    

12

Sentenal

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2005, 03:27:23 pm »
is that just the other forums, or is the compendium's results factored into that as well?

ZeaLitY

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2005, 08:54:47 pm »
Other forums

SilentMartyr

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2005, 10:45:58 pm »
If you want more results, the CTNP poll was most likely deleted after the attack on the host site, so a resubmit wouldn't be a bad idea.

ZeaLitY

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2005, 09:49:47 pm »
Commentary:

Quote from: From IcyBrian
LinaDarkstar

CTR is overdeveloped fanart, but CTRP is legally speaking as bad or worse than ROM emulation, which (remember?) is theft if you don't own the cartridge. SE is protecting its intellectual property.

Look, this is a fuzzy example, but bear with me. If I wanted somebody to make a rom hack of my FF6 translation, I'd ask. But if for some reason or another I didn't want that rom hack out there, then I'd like my wishes respected. It's a remake of something I did, right? Do I get some say in how it's distributed, what form it gets put in, where it goes?

Well, I'd like to, but I don't. If I had a copyright on it? Yes, I get to say where it goes and what versions get made.

I don't care how big and faceless SE is, CT is their property. They do what they want with it. If you're doing something with it they don't like? Out you go. Fanart and fanfic are so obviously unauthorized, amateur tributes that only asshats like Anne Rice try to prosecute the creators. But when you're essentially copying their work into a different format? C'mon, that's not a tribute. It's intellectual theft.

Maggie Renie

IMO this sped past the fanart line when they copied someone else's work into a different format with the intent of making money from it. Even if they deny they had that intention, they attempted to make something that they knew would likely would cut into the sales of the company from which they stole the material. Why is it so surprising to them or to anyone else that the company wouldn't like it and would try to block it?

I sympathize with fans who would like to get a look at something like this. But I support any gamemaker's right to protect its assets and profits, for without them, fewer new games, right? And given the choice I'd rather have a steady flow of new games than fan remakes of existing ones.


Quote from: Gamefaqs
Lord J Esq

Someday, if you ever create anything of artistic value that winds up stolen against your wishes, you might feel differently.

HastegaMage

Square has every RIGHT to be mad, it's their copyright, their trademark..whatever. But morally and ethically why should they care about a game so dated that only creepy little fanboy forum guys like us care about it? Such a small minority of people even knew about these games coming out and weren't even going to be sold for commercial profit. Square should have seen it for what it was, intense dedication and love for something that they created so long ago. It meant so much to all of us that it was coming out, and don't think for a second that they didn't know that, I'm sure all of them have a game they wish someone would remake. So the question remains Square, Why? Well I believe it was a matter of fear, fear that this would landslide into people remaking ff2(kain and cecil in 3d?),3(Sabin's blitzes),9(snicker sorry) and God forbid that anyone ever infringe on that dear old copyright, listen squeenies there were amendments to the FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF THIS COUNTRY, your piece of paper isn't so special

^^Amazing amount of commentary there for a thread which spanned 20 pages.

Duke Darkwood

I don't know these projects myself, but I still sympathize with people who put in that much effort only to be shot down. However, it is not only fair, as stated in 2, but they SHOULD have seen it coming.

Game companies are very possessive of their property, even if they're just sitting on it. I've been a member of an Ultima internet fan club for closing on nine years now, and have heard in the club's Usenet newsgroup about many such projects for that series, and how more than a few of them were shot down by Electronic Arts. So I've seen this kind of behavior.

Square-Enix is no different than EA. The people in charge of the company care about the money. If the developers were in charge, they'd probably understand, but the Suits are in charge.

Any project that tries to directly connect itself to the Chrono Series will recieve this fate. What you'd need to do is make a game with no overt references. Something that strongly suggests a connection, but nothing that can be proven. Something like that should probably fall under Fair Use (I don't know for sure; I'm not an expert on Copyright Laws), and if it does, they can't kill it.


Quote from: CTR Board
Gren

Fact of the matter is this. The staff at Square has changed significantly since the days when Chrono Trigger was first released. Hironobu Sakaguchi, father of the Final Fantasy series, as well as Nobuo Uematsu, and Akira Toriyama (whom was responsible for Chrono Trigger's art in the first place), have all ditched Squaresoft to work on their own projects under the Microsoft flag, "Blue Dragon", and "Lost Odyssey".

The only involvement the existing Square-Enix really has with CT at this point is the piece of paper that says that they own it.

Stop feeling guilty and go ahead and let your anger flare at them, because the people who ordered this project to Cease and Desist are NOT the same people who created Chrono Trigger in the first place.


Quote from: Chronoshock
#3 for me. Seriously though, if the project was finished and they were about to release it publicly, SE wouldn't have allowed it anyways. I know there was a Q3 mod based on DragonBallZ and they had everything done. But Funimation did not allow them to use DBZ characters and they had to create their own characters which made the game less fun. If not, not fun at all.

However, I will say this. CT Resurrection team had all the necessary abilities needed to create the game while CT remake project looked rather half-assed. Their official artwork, no offense, looked pretty bad and everything they have completed just didn't look professional. So when CT Resurrection got C&D order, I wasn't surprised but when CT Remake Project did, I was surprised.


Quote from: OCRemix
(by far the most retarded posts were made here)

Arcana

Definitely 3. It's not just a fan tribute - it's directly trodding on what Square-Enix does to make money. It's taking away from the Square-Enix base by taking their intellectual property, and perhaps reducing potential demand for a new Chrono product from Square Enix by drawing attention toward a fan-made one.

It's not like remixing a song - you're remixing an entire game, which means taking the characters, the music, and even the basic concept, and then walking into the product arena and directly competing with Square-Enix using their own intellectual property.

You can say it's free, but then that puts even more pressure on Square-Enix - now there's a competing product that's better AND cheaper. Is that not a forumla for disaster? Someone'll create a Chrono sequel and mislabel it as an official release, or post up fake information and point to the fan projects. If Square Enix doesn't set a precedent, then it totally screws them out of their trademarks and their copyrights.

RoeTaKa

If I made something that got respect and credibilty world wide, I think I'd be pretty pissed off if somebody took it, remade it better then sold it for free. It's like working hard on an album, then somebody takes that album, puts shitty drum loops on top and gives it away for free. To be absoloutly fair you can be annoyed at Square Enix for what they're stopping, but think about the guy inside that tall building who created the wonder of CT. We have talents to do those jobs, not so someone can take our jobs and piss on them creatively.

If you think about it, if CT was made and released in 3D then what, you'd be playing CT in 3D going "done that, done that, I know this story line so much oh wait I'm kinda bored now". It's a stupid idea. In fact (and people should agree with me here) I'm so tired of CT now because of the fans, you're spoiling it. Maybe this is Square-Enix's perception and believes that making a sequel to Chrono Cross just won't please audiences because they're to hyped up about the game released 10 years ago that just isn't being let go.

This survery is another one of those fan things that is just pointing to a sad and pointless debate about why you don't like a company that gave you a great game. A great game you're forgetting to appreciate cause of greed, I know companies are full of greed because they need to make money to stay functional, doesn't work the other way around unfortunately.

CT is great, I don't say was because it still is great.


Quote from: OUS
Azar

I'd have to say number two. Although I disagree SquareEnix probably views this as a threat of sorts, almost like bootlegging. Apparently they dont see it on the level of harmless minigames and rpgmaker fan projects. I'm guessing at the volume and seriousness of these projects SquareEnix may view this as a threat and not want to endager the sanctity of their copyrights. With that said I dont see these in that regard that they are a threat, but only fan based projects that dont seem to have the will nor intention to receive profit, which I wish they didnt have a problem with.

Geoffrey Taucer

As I said in this same thread on VGmix, I think it's commercially a very stupid move by SE. They're treating some of their biggest and most devoted fans as adversaries.

Hthe8th

I vote a solid 3.

I do think there could be some definite truths to option 1 though. I've never understood why great games like Chrono and Vagrant Story were left forgotten while Square has continued to parade out shitstorms in the Mana and Saga series. I thought for sure that the merger of Square-Enix would give us some more Chrono games to play with but I was completely wrong. I honestly think Square is lost without Sakaguchi there to push out creative series, which is why they're on this suddent trip of milking FF7 for all its worth.

But more on topic I remember reading on I believe it was the Chrono Resurrection site that they planned to take the original game and score and make it 'better' which immediately turned me off from that project. If people are really willing to spend the time and energy to program games, they should have taken the route of making original games and stories in the universe.

ZeaLitY

The lines would indeed by old. Voice acting could remedy this, but even professional voice actors can be utterly terrible. Plus, not every fan has the same idea of what Crono sounded like, and this gets tough when concepts are entrenched in nostalgia.


Quote from: ACMLM's Board
HyperHacker

The problem with the "emulation doesn't hurt sales" argument is thanks to Revolution, it's no longer true.

SilentMartyr

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5/29/05 - What's your take on the C&D stuff?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2005, 11:17:17 pm »
I hope you were not surprised that the most retarded posts came from OCR. :lol