Author Topic: Fuck Sexism  (Read 97467 times)

MagilsugaM

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #780 on: December 09, 2009, 06:18:07 am »
Not much to say in here but sexism is one of the things I hate the most. Both my dad and my mum got separated because my dad was cheating on her. But the fact that my dad is not sexist is quite interesting. He had a bad relationship with his mum but he is for no matters sexist in any way. He is the nicest person I ever met nicer than my mum or anyone else from my family.

So I am for no reason sexist or feminist. I just like to stick in the side that benefits me the most. Even if people might think I am gay. Which I hate just because you like being friendly to everyone even girls and guys. I am a bit feminist but not to the extent that females will rule the world, I do believe in equality that's what this world needs.

However, woman should recive more respect from us. Why?

Because they are the ones who bring birth and suffer all the pain for both men and women to be born. And we men just lay around and do unproductive stuff... For them we are hopeless but the fact is that if all of us will be the same it would be better!

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #781 on: December 09, 2009, 02:23:04 pm »
Quote from: MagilsugaM
Even if people might think I am gay. Which I hate just because you like being friendly to everyone even girls and guys. I am a bit feminist but not to the extent that females will rule the world, I do believe in equality that's what this world needs.
Thanks for sharing. Homophobia is destroying men in at least some subcultures, making them feel ashamed if they're single and thus lending an unnatural urgency to relationship pursuits. If you live in a truly conservative culture, the homophobic attitudes are probably way more than oppressive than what I remember dealing with here in the USA. This reminds me that pro-feminist media originating here and other English-speaking countries should probably be translated into numerous languages; but then I'm slightly concerned about American or Western cultural imperialism if it's entertainment media we're talking about. I think it's probably always better for each culture to take up its own progressive movements, but then again sometimes they might need a little nudge. I'll have to think on this a bit more.


Quote from: MagilsugaM
However, woman should recive more respect from us. Why?

Because they are the ones who bring birth and suffer all the pain for both men and women to be born. And we men just lay around and do unproductive stuff... For them we are hopeless but the fact is that if all of us will be the same it would be better!
Feminist women here in the USA often don't enjoy being placed on a pedestal, even for these reasons; but I slightly suspect more than one woman would probably appreciate your sentiment here -- they complete hugely important tasks that have held up human civilization for centuries, without one whit of thanks in too many cases.

You might be interested in care feminism. It's a largely archaic form but the gist of it is, men and women should share equally in all those care activities traditionally expected only of women.

Plenty of modern feminists would probably critique care feminism in some way or other, but it's really guided my life in a way. When I graduated high school my parents started having health issues, to such an extent that it came down to either myself or my older sister -- who'd just graduated from college with a Computer Science degree -- having to stay home and assist them. Since I was just starting to undergo my feminist awakening at that point, I realized that if I fully pursued my goal of getting into student government as a stepping stone for a stint in State or Federal government, my sister would have to take up a ton of duties commonly associated with women; it's often the daughter who's expected to care for aging parents in a patriarchal society, remember.

So I put my life's momentum on hold; commuting and being at home to do kitchenwork came at a cost of atrophying connections and my decision did rob me the government career I'd so coveted in my dreams. But at the same time, my sister now owns a successful small web design business and intends to be a published novelist in the foreseeable future. This experience might seem galling -- but this is what women have been putting up with for centuries, and unlike me, for far too long they didn't even have a choice in the matter. In developed countries this has substantially given way to a "double life" of greater opportunity but with the strings of care still attached, and in undeveloped countries it's still the same as it's always been I imagine.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 07:47:57 pm by FaustWolf »

GenesisOne

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #782 on: December 09, 2009, 03:34:09 pm »

Lately, I've been reading A Vindication of the Rights of Woman by Mary Wollstonecraft.

This feminist had it right from the get-go that women would no longer stand as subsidiary to men.  I had recently written an essay concering the historical context of her famous work.  She had, in fact, written it in response to , French diplomat Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord.

This man presented his Rapport sur l'instruction publique, or “Report on the public instruction,” to the National Assembly in France. Talleyrand listed recommendations for a national system of education, including this paragraph that turned off Wollstonecraft:

Quote
“Let us bring up women, not to aspire to advantages which the Constitution denies them, but to know and appreciate those which it guarantees them…Men are destined to live on the stage of the world. A public education suits them: it early places before their eyes all the scenes of life: only the proportions are different. The paternal home is better for the education of women; they have less need to learn to deal with the interests of others, than to accustom themselves to a calm and secluded life.”

In the introduction of Rights of Woman, Wollstonecraft dedicates her work to Talleyrand, knowing well of his intentions of male dominance in the educational system:  

Quote
“Having read with great pleasure a pamphlet which you have lately published. I dedicate this volume to you; to induce you to reconsider the subject, and maturely weigh what I have advanced respecting the rights of woman and national education: and I call with the firm tone of humanity; for my arguments, Sir, are dictated by a disinterested spirit–I plead for my sex–not for myself.” (p. 5).

With Wollstonecraft’s Rights of Woman, feminism slowly, but surely caught on to the women of the general public.  The words of her essay reached the ears French playwright and political activist Olympe de Gouges.  That same year, Gouges came out with a work of her own titled Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen. Her work is ironically based on Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, which was approved by the National Assembly of France two years earlier.   Her work combined with Wollstonecraft’s Rights of Woman soon made women’s rights central to political debate both in France and in Britain for generations to come.

The best about my essay was... I never cited a single internet resource.  I'm old school that way.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 05:00:32 pm by GenesisOne »

ZombieBucky

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #783 on: December 09, 2009, 04:17:24 pm »
homophobia is sick, i say. i am interested in both genders, though im finding that i lean more towards females. my previous manager at walmart was a jerk to me about my interest in men. (he found out from a survey that was supposed to be private or something) they decided that i couldnt work with the smaller children because apparently men with an interest in other men will rape children, regardless of their gender.
sickening.
just sickening.
... meanwhile i cant really think of anything to say regarding sexism in general, other than it sucks and all that.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #784 on: December 09, 2009, 08:04:48 pm »
Genesis, did you ever come across any info that would suggest Mary Wallstonecraft's feminism had any impact on her daughter's literary works, including Frankenstein? I've never actually read the book but always wondered if it might somehow be a huge political statement.

MagilsugaM

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #785 on: December 09, 2009, 08:57:28 pm »
homophobia is sick, i say. i am interested in both genders, though im finding that i lean more towards females. my previous manager at walmart was a jerk to me about my interest in men. (he found out from a survey that was supposed to be private or something) they decided that i couldnt work with the smaller children because apparently men with an interest in other men will rape children, regardless of their gender.
sickening.
just sickening.
... meanwhile i cant really think of anything to say regarding sexism in general, other than it sucks and all that.

That's what I meant, I tend to for the females. And I have friends who are homosexual or bisexual and they seem to be nicer that the typical macho who likes to beat up even his own friends.
I am straight but because the way I behave or act sometimes people get ideas and the sexism comes into place. Just because you don't go out or date often doesn't mean anything.

Also thanks Faust I will check care feminism. It seems that it tends to go to far. I  all want is them to be treated with respect that's all. I suffered a lot last couple of year because of my step-dad who use to have verbal fights with my mum. And he ends up treating her like bad and not valuing all the stuff that she does for him. Also I spent most of my childhood with female friends lol. Hard to make friends with males so I kind that got that from there but in the end I got to talk to my dad and re conciliate before I moved away.

Well that is all. I would just wish this would be changing as our "civilization" really becomes civilized...

Last thought, I need to read all these stuff about it because I don't know that much.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #786 on: December 09, 2009, 09:36:01 pm »
FUCK THIS STATE OF AFFAIRS

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/
http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/

Look which one is fucking bigger. And then, if you have the stomach, look at Mens' Rights to see the kind of incredible bullshit and self-pitying tripe being posted there by people ignorant of their privilege in the world.

I'm going to the feminisms subreddit to start submitting and posting things from:

http://www.hrw.org/en/category/topic/women
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/
http://www.unifem.org/
http://www.unfpa.org/public/
http://www.wfsnews.org/

As well as contributing to the discussions in the comments and downvoting the several misogynistic comments filtering through from detractors. We're going to fucking make this subreddit more active than the mens subreddit, and then active enough to achieve the prominence of the atheism subreddit. We're going to fucking organize this.



JOIN ME. ADD IT TO YOUR FUCKING BOOKMARKS, READ, SUBMIT, AND DISCUSS. THIS IS THE DAI-GURREN DAN, AND YOU'RE FUCKING IN IT.

DO THE IMPOSSIBLE
SEE THE INVISIBLE
RAW RAW, FIGHT THE POWER!!

TOUCH THE UNTOUCHABLE
BREAK THE UNBREAKABLE
RAW RAW, FIGHT THE POWER!!

OUR BURNING BLOOD WILL CUT THROUGH FATE!!!!




COME THE FUCK ON; LET'S FUCKING DO THIS

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #787 on: December 09, 2009, 09:44:41 pm »
And if you take the "s" off "feminisms" in the link ZeaLitY provided, the number of Readers falls to a mere 306. That's 4.6% the attendance the men's rights Reddit has, rounding up.

LET'S TEAR UP SOME SHEEEEEIT.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:03:48 pm by FaustWolf »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #788 on: December 09, 2009, 09:47:23 pm »
Ugh, yeah. Well, feminisms is definitely drill to pierce the heavens, here; I think feminism is more a few 2nd wavers doing their thing.

This is a fucking easy fight to bring. Anyone reading this, just register and start upvoting and contributing. Subscribe to that reddit. Let's increase the numbers and fucking declare war on sexism.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #789 on: December 09, 2009, 10:18:26 pm »
For the gentlemen readers, here's a great one to start out with and start thinking about (Alternet link at the very beginning). Although this might be a trial by fire for men just becoming interested in feminism to go gung-ho on; no shame in hanging back and getting a sense of this movement's extremely varied culture, and upvoting feminist articles you find interesting in the meantime, I suppose.  

I might just post one of Robert Jensen's articles or the statistics study on aggression in porn there, once I get a feel for how well it'll go over in /feminisms/ versus /feminism/. Thanks for the links ZeaLitY!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:04:51 pm by FaustWolf »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #790 on: December 10, 2009, 06:53:06 am »
If anyone wants a little help on learning to contribute...

Sign up as a redditor, first. You'll then notice you can submit, vote (up or down arrow), and comment on things.

You may feel overwhelmed by the existing submissions. What you can do to get started is bookmark this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/new/

These show the newest submissions to the subreddit. This is where you can catch fresh contributions, read them, comment on them, and vote on them. You can also vote on comments. So, if you see that some idiot's come along saying "lol what a bitch" or something like that, downvote their comment; with enough downvotes, their idiotic comment will be hidden. Be sure to upvote submissions and comments that you like, and praise informative contributions. If someone replies to your submission or comments, you'll see the gray envelope by your name turn ORANGE.

As you contribute, people will vote on your submissions and comments, and you'll gradually accumulate link and comment karma. More importantly, you'll accumulate credibility in the subreddit, which is great if you're making sincere, informed, well-read contributions, and are reading the contributions of others before commenting.

If you want a cheat sheet to making links, italicized text, etc.:

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/6ewgt/reddit_markdown_primer_or_how_do_you_do_all_that/

NOW FIGHT THE POWER WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK I'M TELLING YOU ABOUT ALL THIS FOR



WE ARE SUPER

SO GET FIRED UP YOU BASTARDS!  :kamina

Edit: After going through the top-rated history of the subreddit, I also learned that men from the MensRights subreddit are coming in to downvote every submission in feminisms, just as a ton of Christians and Muslims downvote everything in atheism (paradoxically contributing more activity, which keeps it in the top ten—right in their faces).

Take http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/comments/ad3ei/links_for_keeping_current_on_womens_issues/, for example; 4 upvotes, 3 downvotes. 3 people downvoted a simple request for people to post links about the topic of the subreddit itself.

With this in mind, it's very important to upvote good submissions. It's not enough to agree with something, comment, and move on...click that up arrow. Otherwise, contributors to the fem subreddit will get negative karma.

FaustWolf's already shown up at the subreddit to fight the power and cross-post things here and there. As a friend, Chrono luminary, activist, Ahab-wannabe, or whatever, I'm asking please for any and all help. It's simple. Just bookmark the damn subreddit and check in time to time. You'll stay fresh on feminist issues at no extra effort.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 10:21:17 am by ZeaLitY »

Uboa

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #791 on: December 10, 2009, 02:42:07 pm »
How has any pervasive aspect of our culture -- media, religion, art, academia/pop-science? (other?) -- had a resounding influence (positive or negative) on your view of the opposite sex, or your own sex for that matter? 

Admittedly, my relationship with people of my own sex, and my perception of my own sex, has been a strained one from an early age.  This dates back to my witnessing portrayals of women in various forms of media growing up -- mostly on TV and in video games.  For the longest time when I was young, really young, I watched these women, or caricatures of women, in what appeared to be high places do things which I found wholly unremarkable.  None of them appealed to me in the sense that I would really want to be like them, but still there was present an uneasy feeling that these women, these females, were somehow "normal", even though they were boring.  The men on the Saturday morning cartoons and the men in the video games were the ones who were adventurous, bold, brave.  The women, on the whole, were nice and pretty, morally upstanding, and sometimes flamboyant.  But, they were not bold.  They had no sense of adventure.  They did not even seem remotely interested in the kinds of things that I would have been interested in.  So, from a very young age I found myself relating to, for the most part, men.  My role models were almost always male.  I played the male hero in the video game, and I watched the male hero of the cartoon series. 

There were some exceptions to this pattern.  There were physically strong women who accomplished amazing (to a seven year old) physical feats on American Gladiators.  Come fifth or sixth grade I was able to watch Kimberly and Trini fight the alien forces of evil on the show Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.  Of course, playing as Samus in the Metroid games was always a "blast", hah.  I was stoked when I noticed two of the strongest characters in Final Fantasy VI were women.  They were always the first to level 99 for me.  I appreciated the women on Star Trek: The Next Generation.  They seemed down-to-earth, strong, and realistic.  Although their roles on the Enterprise were somewhat stereotypical of women of the time, they were able to be adventurers to much of the same extent that the men were.

My love of bold adventurous females and my desire to be one found a home for a time.  My two best female friends for a long time were into fantasy and sci-fi games and shows, like I was.  We had a lot of fun together.  Looking back, we were all such tomboys, even though my one friend was always so damn pretty.  We played "adventure" in their back yard.  (They were sisters.)  We played Magic: The Gathering together, and simple games of Dungeons and Dragons.  We played Myst, and other computer adventure games together.  (Hah!  I just remembered that they were the first people I trolled chat rooms with, but that is an aside!)  We challenged one another to daring feats on old playground equipment.  They were the only two girls I was able to relate to.  No wonder I was so lost when they moved away as I entered middle school. 

Forlorn as I was at that time in my life, I guess part of me accepted that maybe I was supposed to look like those women who I felt so detached from since the beginning.  This depressed and distressed me at first, and if the chain of thoughts involved had as much fecundity as I'm thinking now then it eventually (along with a lot of other unfortunate distresses) nearly killed me, as I developed a life-threatening eating disorder in high school.

I don't pay attention to televised media much anymore, aside from DVD sets old TV series.  Watching all of Homicide: Life On The Street, and witnessing the very realistic and affecting portrayals of the women in the Homicide unit has been a great treat.  I think it is wonderful that the writers of that show and the actors were able to portray the female characters in a very positive light while being realistic about the kinds of challenges they would have faced on the force.  And, as I believe I've mentioned before, I've been thrilled to watch the sometimes wrenchingly realistic portrayal of the chaotic force that is Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica.  As welcome as these "mirrors" are now, I can't help but think of my young self and feel a little upset that I would not have been able to see these characters as my ideal ideals.  Only one character in a televised drama which I watched during the time spanning my entire adolescence came close to being that for me.  And, on that note (and shifting the topic sightly to relationships):

I had a realization the other day that dealt with my views of relationships, and that was how much of an impact the show The X-Files had on me in shaping some of those views.  In addition to the influence on my ideas about relationships, it also provided me with my strongest female "role model" in entertainment media, I guess you could say.  Dana Scully was a woman who I felt like I could look up to in almost every way, even though Mulder always ended up proving her wrong at the end of every episode!  She was intelligent, very strong-willed, able to hold her own, and she had awesome red hair.  She was the main reason that I dyed my hair red for a while in high school!  But, aside from the fact that I could look up to her, I also looked up to her relationship with Mulder; the respect that they showed one another, their deep friendship, and finally their acceptance of their romantic love for each other.  (And then two almost entirely utterly ridiculous seasons, but I digress.)  My lasting impression, though, is that they would always be friends first, and that is what appealed to me most about their relationship.  That "model" of relationship is something I've held as a pretty high ideal for a long time since.

I put off posting this because I was hoping to add something about how growing up around a lot of "pop-science" influenced my thinking about human sexuality, but as I was writing about all of that I realized it's something that I'd rather think more about first.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #792 on: December 10, 2009, 03:53:00 pm »
Uboa, that's really powerful and profoundly sad, how you spent a significant portion of your life without media role models. I haven't kept up on the kinds of TV shows most kids watch nowadays, so I wonder whether the situation has improved drastically or remained about the same; seems television dramas are on an improving trend from what I can tell.

I'm reviving my interest in feminist media studies on account of our discussion here. Seirie no Moribito (Guardian of the Spirit) looks like one fantastic anime both male and female kids should be exposed to; I think Cartoon Network's been showing it, but not necessarily on a Saturday morning time slot (do kids even watch Saturday morning cartoons anymore?). I lost interest in it awhile ago because it suffers from a dozen-episode lull where virtually nothing happens, but this spear fight clip has caused me to pick it up again. Besides the anime focusing on a female main character in an atypical role (that of a body guard), I really appreciate that one of the other main protagonists is a male doctor whose role is to care for and nurture others. That's the kind of male role model I felt was lacking in media when I grew up.

My theory is that if traditional roles are broken up, mixed, and stirred in popular media, that will be an important step in deconstructing previous social norms. If kids grow up exposed to a wide variety of characters filling a wide variety of roles, they might just realize there aren't "men" and "women" so much as there are just people.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 03:57:04 pm by FaustWolf »

placidchap

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #793 on: December 10, 2009, 03:55:27 pm »
Uboa, that's really powerful and profoundly sad, how you spent a significant portion of your life without media role models.

How is that sad?  I never had a role model...and I turned OK...after my wife whipped me into shape anyway.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #794 on: December 10, 2009, 04:40:41 pm »
When I read what Uboa wrote, I kept reflecting on Lion-o and the Ninja Turtles, remembering how all these male characters were doing stupendous things. I never would have described them as "boring;" they were freaking awesome. While not necessarily role models in the sense that I wanted to emulate them exactly, these characters were still role models to me in the sense that I shared some basic biology with them (...I am part feline and part turtle, you see...) and therefore they helped construct my sense of what men were supposed to be, what they were supposed to do, and how they were supposed to act.

Though I have to admit, Inspector Gadget was a nice subversion. Were it not for Penny and that dog, the Inspector would have been up the proverbial creek without a paddle in no time. That show was interesting because I think it gave me the impression that men weren't invulnerable or anything.

I think the only show I watched as a kid that actually had a female lead character was Maya the Bee.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 04:45:38 pm by FaustWolf »