Author Topic: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11  (Read 9564 times)

V_Translanka

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2009, 11:25:44 pm »
Yeah...I didn't notice any new Techs for Robo and Frog...What'd I miss...?

FaustWolf

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2009, 11:33:02 pm »
Quote
Although I must say I was rather dissapointed when I noticed Marle's set of techs (as well as Crono's and Lucca's if I remember correctly) had remained unaltered, whereas Glenn's, Magus' and Robo's where dramatically changed. Was there any special reason for this? (other than the fact that it must be hell to accomplish).
Agent 12 may have a different take on this, but I was especially worried about altering people's tech sets from their "classic" techs, seeing as some players might disapprove of the new techs. I took a huge gamble with Robo, Frog, and Ayla, and I did those because I felt dissatisfied with their original tech sets on a personal level. Only Crono was completely unaltered though; Agent 12 upgraded Marle's Haste into a "Haste-All" that affected the entire party; same with Lucca's "Protect."

In retrospect, I feel we should have changed Marle's simple "Ice" into a multi-hit "Ice Pulse." Multi-hit techs are nonexistent at lower tech slots, so it would have been unique. I can visualize what that would be like, and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it to begin with. The multi-hit techs weren't too bad as far as code length (if I remember correctly, Agent 12 might remember very differently), so I think it would have been possible.

It's been suggested that either Marle or Frog should have had "Hexagon Mist." That was actually the first enemy-only tech I jumped at when I got into tech editing, but the results were far less than what I had hoped for. Even Ice 1 is more impressive visually. It's possible that it could have been dressed up beyond the original through screen darkening effects and maybe some Sprite layer bubbles or something, but I never bothered with it more than the initial investigation; Frog's *Venom Mist seemed much more promising at the time.

Techs in Chrono Trigger are basically accomplished through event code as far as I can tell, or at least something analogous. It's not as simple as: "Hey, use this spell effect." It's more like: "Hey, initialize the tech. Call this sound. Call character animation x. Call character animation y. Draw Layer 3 spell effect. Hide Layer 3 spell effect." And that's just for the character, which represents one "object." The target enemy, incidental enemies, and little doodads that surround the caster each get their very own code. I can't even imagine how Agent 12 waded through all of the main code and figured out most of the functions. After he coded up the tech editor, it was just a matter of familiarizing oneself with the object system and using a basic hex editor to fill in some gaps in what the tech editor could do.

Quote from: V
Yeah...I didn't notice any new Techs for Robo and Frog...What'd I miss...?
In short, all of this.
That was a demo reel for the new techs I was using to show Agent 12 and Chrono'99 to get feedback. Funny thing is, Robo's "Green Memory" might have been blue-looking had Chrono'99 not caught it. You can see earlier renditions of new techs for various characters here and here.

Magus' "Soul Reaver" didn't make it in at all, because the coloration was too bright for a Shadow-innate badass. Plus, he would have sucked uber amounts of HP from CE enemies (Soul Reaver absorbed 5% of enemy HP), making him just a little too badass perhaps.

EDIT: Also, Robo's "Reactor" didn't make it in. I was going for a nuclear-weapon looking effect, but '99 thought it looked uncharacteristically like a water spell, and we already had two water users so we scrapped that one too.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 11:58:00 pm by FaustWolf »

leena_zeal

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2009, 11:34:11 pm »
Um, Robo's "Dark Gear", "StunBarrage"? Frog's "Poison Fog" (not sure 'bout the name)
How are those not new techs?

Perhaps I did not state my point correctly? If so, I apologize, English can be tricky for me sometimes...

EDIT: Ah, I see FW, thanks.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 11:38:14 pm by leena_zeal »

FaustWolf

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2009, 11:38:05 pm »
Naw, it's just that none of the beta testers experienced the new techs I created. I was screwing with quite a bit of game code, so we were worried that my changes might have unintended consequences. Thus, we waited until the 98% beta to actually put them in. I was in the middle of my second full-game test drive with all the newest techs when the order came in for a video walkthrough to be made.

mav

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2009, 11:46:17 pm »
So there certainly haven't been any new double or triple techs? Watching your tech demo videos always left me speechless, FW...I couldn't wait to see them in-game, and I must say I'm quite satisfied; Robo's new techs are gorgeous.

FaustWolf

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2009, 11:47:57 pm »
I was especially proud of Robo's, but I'd give Ayla the "most strategically improved" label. Her "TailSpin" was already high damaging as it was; it just wasn't distance-limited anymore as "Wind Dance." "Pangaea" just totally annihilates every enemy...except Pink Nu Spekkio. I'm kind of embarrassed by my encounters with that one during the walkthrough. "Berserker" was just plain fun, and Magus' new Steal tech made it possible to sacrifice her "Charm" (which I always thought rather sexist).

EDIT: Oh, the doubles and triples. We didn't go near those for the most part due to the added complexity and the fact that we just started investigating them during the late stages of CE, but that would have been possible for future modifications for sure. I had given thought to making *Dreamless one of the triple techs, but again, we never had time to implement our last-minute ideas. That would have been technically very doable though. Ironically, it's the strongest techs that are typically the easiest to recreate because they're usually Layer 3 spell effects.

EDIT: And if you ever think that you've got a legit 98% beta of CE on your hard drive, lack of the new techs for Ayla, Frog, and Robo will be proof that you don't.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 11:54:17 pm by FaustWolf »

Mikisho

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2009, 12:00:47 am »
time schmime...  You were just lazy and you know it xD.  Also, Kid
It's a hint that the player could revisit something from Chrono Cross. :D

Something obvious or something that contradict what Chrono Cross have mentioned so far? My instinct say
Darkness Beyond Time.
My instinct also say
To get the story smooth, you will make sure the timeline that Schala residence with will be the subject of TB,
then she would be sent to DBT, for nothing but obviously for one reason, FUSED WITH LAVOS.


Do not zoom if you do not want 'possible' spoiler.

You said this earlier.  I think your instincts are wrong.  I think rather than THAT place that you mentioned they will be going to The dead sea, or rather, the lost and forgotten chronopolis ;) Then again, I could be wrong and you could be right.  Only time will tell  :lol:

Agent 12

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2009, 12:06:31 am »
About techs:

Main reason I wanted to do techs was to take a quick break from CE (at this time .....it was kind of just me in there and I was going a little crazy).  I spent a few weeks on Tech editing and got a good editor and was hoping other people would take it up. It'd just be too time consuming and I didn't want to stay away from CE too long. So I made the editor and a decently detailed walkthrough on how to make a new tech and pretty much begged people to use it. I even toyed with an idea of having a contest to get your tech in CE. Unfortunately it never really took off....

So I settled for  a few upgrads to techs. I always love status effects but most games never really make them useful, I know that I had never ever used Lucca's "Protect" spell.  I thought by making them target all and of course Magus' wonderful omni shield then people would finally use status affect spells. For a long long time that was all CE had

Then seriously out of the blue FW found some strange internal motivation to do techs and voila, you got the wonderful techs that you see in the video.

--JP

FaustWolf

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2009, 12:13:54 am »
Quote
FW found some strange internal motivation to do techs and voila.
It was actually this one song that gave me the motivation. I listened to that while studying monetary theory in February or March, and suddenly I started dreaming about awesome new techs. Sometimes a single piece of music can just strike a chord in someone and give them boundless motivation. That is the worth of art.

kid123

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2009, 12:43:36 am »
Ironic, if Mitsuda got his inspiration of music through his dream and mind (he mentioned that in one of his interview,it is rather an awesome way of inspiration), then Faustwolf got his through music. Then come a person of Youtube that doesn't has any talent at writing poem but he unintentionally can write a good one after hearing Scar of Time.(scary stuff) Up to you to believe
or not, some person are desirous in need of motivation and inspiration sometime which can strike some odd on their work outcome.

But hey, that is a good thing. I love to see more of those ''tech inspired by music''  from you FW.
Just post them on Youtube, we love to see more  :mrgreen:

You said this earlier.  I think your instincts are wrong.  I think rather than THAT place that you mentioned they will be going to The dead sea, or rather, the lost and forgotten chronopolis ;) Then again, I could be wrong and you could be right.  Only time will tell  :lol:

Mada mada dane.  :wink:

Mikisho

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2009, 12:44:28 am »
FW that is a kcikass song xD.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2009, 01:09:06 am »
Mikisho, you're getting the hang of Time Traveler's Immunity!
Yay, I feel special xD
A special cake for the special boy!!! *hands him cake*

Damnit the computer voice was right! I missed the cake.  :(





I think the way Sliders did it would be more realistic (I can't believe I actually typed that), but TTI works with the mechanics of the game, and is also much less depressing than... Marle stays dead, Frog gets stuck in the warring 600's forever, or Repttruce sticks around for good. That is to say, until they can slide to the next gate.

IAmSerge

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2009, 01:11:35 am »
Mikisho, you're getting the hang of Time Traveler's Immunity!
Yay, I feel special xD
A special cake for the special boy!!! *hands him cake*
Damnit the computer voice was right! I missed the cake.  :(
No you didn't! We're making the cake as we speak!  Its at... *looks up* 5 layers now!

Mr Bekkler

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2009, 01:16:06 am »
Pyramid cake. Sneaky.





So what's the word on Chronopolis and Schala? They're back, just like that? Everything's fixed? Or did NeoMarle fuck something up? FW!

Acacia Sgt

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Re: The Month That Could Have Been -- Chapter 11
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2009, 01:34:41 am »
I don't think Marle changed that much the time line. True, the Frozen Flame's role in the conflict did change, but the outcome was the same anyway, not much of a change now.

...

Or is it?