Author Topic: Some thoughts from an outsider.  (Read 1920 times)

Recrm

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Some thoughts from an outsider.
« on: June 08, 2009, 01:35:04 am »
Hello let me introduce myself.

   I am a long time user of the compendium website, although have never previously posted on the forums. I guess that would make me a lurker. I am also an even longer fan of the Chrono universe as a whole. Personally I have always hated web forums. I despise both their generally retarded user base, and the fact that rarely is anything productive ever achieved over a web forum. Strangely I have also always envied those communities that have somehow beaten this common trend. One of the few places of this type I keep coming back to is the Chrono compendium. I usually skim the news, enjoy the excellent fan art, listen to most of the music submissions, and read through a few of the fanfics, then leave and forget to return for another month or so. Inevitably though, I’d be back to rekindle my love of the Chrono universe. I applaud you all for somehow maintaining the only bastion of Chrono fandom left on the internet, and also somehow keeping alive the spirit of a game even its own creators would rather forget existed. This accomplishment in and of itself is worth every reward imaginable and many times I wished I could add a little something to this great accomplishment. I never did though, always put it off. I can’t draw, can’t program, and I can’t compose.
   As with all of you, the idea of a new Chrono game has been on the back of my mind since I purchased my playstation in order to play through Crono Cross. I wanted a game even before that, but some might argue that those desires actually came true. This game now features prominently in my game collection right beside my SNES version of Chrono Trigger almost complete with instruction booklet and original maps. (Sadly, as with all my other games at the time, I didn’t feel the need to hold onto the box. So it got recycled along with other miscellaneous packaging.) The point is I am a fan. I always have been, and I hope I always will be. Chrono trigger always let me dream outside the confined restrictions of humanity. At the time it allowed my child’s imagination to believe that life was not restricted by things like time. For once made even the most unimaginable impossibilities seem closer to what could be. The story was so big that I couldn’t help but be taken in by it. Cross equally so, but unlike so many naysayers the reason I liked that game was because it was different. It expanded the universe for me much more then any direct sequel or tack-on storyline ever has. This is why I’m a Chrono fan.
   I started visiting this website much more frequently around the time the DS version was announced. The obvious possible implication of squares sudden interest in the series was not lost to me. So I have sat back and watched the entire saga unfold, all the time thinking to myself about the true value of franchise, character, intellectual property, and large corporations. Square’s transformation is also something I have followed closely. Back in the SNES days I, like many others, basically worshiped Square calling them the greatest game making company of all time. I still often find myself replaying and re-replaying such games as Buhamut Lagoon, Final Fantasy 4, Actraiser, Secret of Mana, Super Mario RPG etc., and while I’m not a fan I have also looked on with interest the creation of Final Fantasy 7 as a franchise. I will admit the original game was outstanding in its game play and storytelling, but as I saw it slowly ripped apart by endless sequels and spin-offs I have come to realize that you can kill a story by telling to much of it. At one time I would have used the term evil, perhaps demonic. I hated and still hate square for what they have become and what they are doing to the memory of the games that fans everywhere hold dear. Very little of what they do doesn’t stink of money grabbing corporations and lost is the honest and sincere artwork that was their original games. However, looking through it with older and more sober eyes I now accept the inevitability. Square reminds me of another very large and highly cherished company from my childhood. Disney has taken the exact same path as squaresoft, and both companies arrived at the exact same place. They are big, money making corporations completely lacking both a soul and a conscience. They don’t care about your childhood memories or even their own games. Gone is the artistic merit that once drove that company, and now it is locked away and reserved for only those games that they believe will make them money. They just care about making money, nothing more and certainly nothing less. Some call this a bad thing, some the most evil thing of all, but I have come to realize that it is not. It just is what it is. Corporations are simply a tool that like anything else can be used for both good and evil. The people who made squarsoft great are no longer in charge, and with their departure also departs the soul of the company, leaving nothing but a machine known as a cooperation left in its place.
   One thing that I do like about corporations is their extreme predictability. If they do something one way, the will continue to do things in the exact same way. Square has now mercilessly shut down every single major fan attempt to expand the series, without exception. Unless something happens to change the status quo I see no reason why they will not continue to do so. Their position on the matter is crystal clear and in no way up for debate or interpretation. So as a fan I am also faced with a dilemma. How can I wrestle squares favourite toy away from them. The short story is that it simply cannot be done. They are bigger then us, richer then us, have more time and lawyers then us. As a fan we cannot do anything to a franchise that its cooperation refuses to share. While I hate to admit it, I don’t see much of a future for any of the large ambitious Chrono projects. Yet, it is these same projects that keep the community alive. So we are once again left with a dilemma. Is it better to let the community die a slow but inevitable heat death, or to fight an up hill battle against a company that cannot be beaten? This C&D has permanently shaken the very nature of this community, and I strongly believe it is worthwhile for those in charge to take an honest look at themselves and decide what is to happen to this community. There is very little hope as long as your purpose rests within a large soulless cooperation, yet without hope there is no community. Choose your next moves carefully.
   It has always been an ambition of mine to create something that impacts other people just as the idea of Chrono has impacted me. This is the same ambition that rests in every creator of every medium in the history of humanity. With this in mind I have begun creating my own creation. It is influenced by my love of trigger, and several other outstanding works that have drawn me both as a child and as an adult and has expanded to more then thirty thousand words and continues to grow. The truth is that no work ever published can be taken as completely new. Each is a derivative of that which affected its author and that is something the publishing companies can never truly understand nor control. Chrono is about hope in a completely hopeless world. It is about a few small meaningless people deciding that the future can be better, and successfully beating an impossible foe. It is about a story that is not limited to time or reality. It breaks the barrier of the impossible and places it on the realm of the possible. To limit your artistic expression to characters and names is suicide, but square cannot control the copyright on ideas and the idea behind Chrono that grabbed me as a child is simply that hope is not bound by such petty things as time, inevitability or reality.
   I apologize ahead of time if I disappear into the shadows, it is my nature. I wish you the best in all your endeavors and I look forward to the conclusion of your most excellent series of videos. While I understand this is not the medium of choice, it is still a work well done.

Recrm

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 01:38:04 am »
Welcome to the Compendium, recrum!  I seem to have very similar views as you do, so I can relate very much to your post.  It was a real man's post, full of information, it allowed me to see who recrm is, and it wasn't a waste of space!

WELCOME!

Lord J Esq

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 02:12:42 am »
Welcome!

lunar7

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 02:24:04 am »
i hear you Recrm, i am pretty much in perfect agreement. I already made a long rant elsewhere regarding most of the same topics, and I guess I got it out of my system before joining here soon after (I too have been a long time lurker, and a fan of the game since the original came out in 95).

Something's gotta give here with these companies, there's a real stalemate at the moment because it's not like new companies with real vision can claw their way into the market either - it's very very difficult. The ones with vision are tending to stick with fan projects, which is why it's especially a shame to have companies see these projects as a threat and not simply echoes of the good old days before advanced graphics, when the elements that got us hooked were a priority simply because there wasn't anything else at the time to distract the audience with - your game had to have considerable content beyond graphics or it simply wouldn't sell.

The times have changed, and sadly who knows what has to give before we see some revitalisation in the industry once again.

   It has always been an ambition of mine to create something that impacts other people just as the idea of Chrono has impacted me. This is the same ambition that rests in every creator of every medium in the history of humanity. With this in mind I have begun creating my own creation.

yeah, me too. what's happened here has in a way made me even more determined to do what i can to show that if game developers aren't going to fill in the void veteran rpg gamers have had growing inside of them for years, we simply have to try and do it ourselves. and nothing should ever get in the way of that, because we wouldn't need to if things were like they were in the 90s again (don't get me wrong, i'd love to have games that combined 90s-quality gameplay with 2000s quality graphics, anyday).

i'm mainly someone who has a large interest in writing game music and if necessary, will work on a story, etc. to give it a context to try and "get my feet wet" a bit before building up a legitimate portfolio to approach developers with. i have a good amount of experiencing coding and would enjoy gaining some extra experience through such efforts, but mainly i am more inspired by mitsuda's music than even uematsu's, and i really want to take it to the next level beyond simply remixing. i don't want years of piano lessons, and even a degree in composition, to go to waste in this regard. i'll keep writing classical music for sure, but without working for a game company yet, to have a valid outlet for game-oriented compositions would be a dream come true for me.

and i guess that's what i mean... for many of us, we are interested in development, whether it be for hobby or more serious ambitions, and what better way to explore that interest than in some fan projects - it's just not reasonable to expect people to create their own world, characters, everything from scratch - no one will be able to relate to any of it so it's just too much to expect of someone who's not on salary or part of a large team. fan projects are simply the natural evolution of the desire to celebrate the awesomeness of a given world and its characters in the most fulfilling possible way... and i don't think there can be any real stopping it.

Chrono is about hope in a completely hopeless world. It is about a few small meaningless people deciding that the future can be better, and successfully beating an impossible foe. It is about a story that is not limited to time or reality. It breaks the barrier of the impossible and places it on the realm of the possible.

and this is the third major aspect of the situation. this is what sets the Chrono series apart from the rest for many of us. there are so many parallels between the Chrono world and the real world we can draw, that we can't really with other games. our real world really is on the brink of two very different outcomes. either we can get a grip on all the serious issues in todays world with the help of technology, successful globalization, avoiding disastrous war, natural disasters, man-made disasters, etc, or we can't. what we are each doing and how we are carrying ourselves really does make a difference in the outcome of things, no matter how insignificant we might think we are. it's an intricate web of butterfly effects between each and every one of us that determines what path the world takes.

one person writing words that inspires another can create a chain effect. so can one person writing words that makes another feel like things are hopeless.

there is so much more room in the chrono world for growth, more stories, developments, tangents, and fresh perspectives. if the original developers have recently more or less confirmed they will be abandoning it forever, it's inevitable that those who are convinced the chrono storyline cannot possibly be over already will time and time again attempt to fill in that void. those with the right talents, especially if they manage to find each other and team up, can continue to do amazing things with these characters, in these worlds.

and they will hopefully learn from the situations in the past, and take the appropriate measures to ensure the fan community protects its own interests, even if that means for some portions of it to go more or less completely underground.

the time will come when these portions can resurface once again, so that we may come together to celebrate the awesomeness of the Chrono world, and its uncanny parallels with these unusual times we live in ourselves, once more.

lunar7

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 07:46:28 am »
Jesus, someone congratulate me for reading that giant block of a post (seriously, we should all get Hero Medals :lol:). Anyways, welcome!

I will admit the original game (FF7) was outstanding in its game play and storytelling...

What was amazing about the gameplay? As far as I remember it was exactly the same as previous installments. They changed the Desperation Attacks a bit and tweaked the Esper system as well, but nothing big (and I still say Materia are retarded versions of Magicite)...

I hated and still hate square for what they have become and what they are doing to the memory of the games that fans everywhere hold dear.

This is one of those lines I never understand. The original games are still there for you to play (hell, they even rerelease, port and remake quite a few of them nowadays, especially with PSN and WiiWare). I don't see how one game/story/work of art can be tarnished by another. Maybe if something is retconned and you don't agree with said retcon, then I can understand at least where you're coming from...but otherwise, it sounds like BS and nostalgia taking precedence.

Square has now mercilessly shut down every single major fan attempt to expand the series, without exception.

Wrong.

While I hate to admit it, I don’t see much of a future for any of the large ambitious Chrono projects.

You are wrong.

Yet, it is these same projects that keep the community alive.

Not really, no. The Compendium started *shock* WITHOUT A SINGLE FAN PROJECT~! *holds for gasps to die down* It was about the analysis of the games first and foremost. This analysis was partly to pick apart the canon of the series so that all types of fan projects (from fanfics to ROM hacks) could have a consistency and accuracy to them.

Is it better to let the community die a slow but inevitable heat death, or to fight an up hill battle against a company that cannot be beaten?

We won't die from one setback, even from such a heavy blow as this. If you're at all familiar with the Compendium you should know of a guy around here who likes to speak a number every so often about a little thing called the SPRINGTIME OF YOUTH! ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER~!!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 07:48:38 am by V_Translanka »

Belaith

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 10:39:47 am »

We won't die from one setback, even from such a heavy blow as this. If you're at all familiar with the Compendium you should know of a guy around here who likes to speak a number every so often about a little thing called the SPRINGTIME OF YOUTH! ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER~!!
Who's that, V?

Hmm, welcome welcome.. yada yada... 'nother rant.. don't care.

ONSLAUGHT

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 06:54:39 pm »
Chrono shall not die easily. I assure that. If there are signs of it dying I will personally give up what I need to to get it back up and going. If it dies, I will work hard and eventually(FACT)bring it back to life.
I'm sure many others here feel the same.
I keep my info 100% secret but I can say Chrono has helped me a great deal not just telling an epic unforgettable story with interactivity I love, but it's also helped me with countless real life situations! Not joking at all, Chrono has helped me about as much as family has helped me!
To me, it's like a relative or someone I love, etc. If anyone wants it dead, I'mma f**k them up.  :evil:

MDenham

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 11:11:23 pm »
Jesus, someone congratulate me for reading that giant block of a post (seriously, we should all get Hero Medals :lol:).


I'm sorry, you were saying?

TriforceofEternity

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 04:18:49 am »
I 100% agree wtih Recrm.      The only reason Square re-relased the old games is not so much to please us but to get us to stop griping.     

Sorta like getting a child a piece of candy to behave but for this community the piece of candy is a DS port.       

V_Translanka

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 04:51:37 am »
Ever stop to think maybe it's not about you? Maybe ports are actually more for the new generation who never got a chance to experience these great games the older gen talks about so much...JUST AN IDEA....

Belaith

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 04:52:30 am »
Good one. Eh, the new generation just isn't into retro gaming, though.

ONSLAUGHT

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 04:41:19 pm »
For the most part I agree. My a kid, high school freshman that a friend of mine knows played the DS game and loved it, has shown to plenty of people in my area and convinced a great number of people including himself that "its the best game ever"!

lunar7

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 10:22:44 pm »
It's as though the new generation never even had a chance to find out what they were missing out on, I think they think that all video games were like the way the new ones are. Then again the really, really old games were pretty bland too (I think the game era most of us cherish might have started off with Rogue, the first graphic RPG to seriously kick ass).

There was a niche era IMHO that was mainly strictly in the 90s, may have trickled a little into the early 2000s, and had roots going back through the 80s, and something's gotta give before we get these kind of elements back in our games.

I have hopes for FF XIII, but then again, looking at some of the character designs, I don't really have high hopes...


V_Translanka

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 11:16:31 pm »
Then again the really, really old games were pretty bland too...

Sorta...the further back you go the more they had to rely on gameplay being fun and addictive. Usually it was fast paced and driven toward a quarter-pumping market.

I have hopes for FF XIII, but then again, looking at some of the character designs, I don't really have high hopes...

Hey hey, "don't judge a book by its cover" and all that...! Don't you hate it when people see Chrono Trigger and make some offhand DBZ comment?

TriforceofEternity

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Re: Some thoughts from an outsider.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2009, 02:17:35 am »
Despite the lack of 3rd party support the n64 was a fun machine.   

If only that darned disk drive came out and the fun would've been 2x.

Imagine a Chrono URA?