Author Topic: C&D: Director's Response  (Read 24661 times)

TheGary

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2009, 02:41:41 pm »
Yeah, that's why I am saying that there is no way that the patch could be illegal and they have no authority to tell you to C&D. There is no reason to follow their demands and you should at the very least contact them and explain why you have the legal right to release this patch.

This whole situation and the way everyone is acting makes no sense at all. You guys are completely in the right here.

Zephira

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2009, 02:42:35 pm »
What can't they afford?
Fighting this would take a whole lot of time off of real life duties, would infringe on upcoming vacations, interrupt schoolwork, career work and site maintenance, AND there is the risk of that $150,000 fine. The people involved do have lives - and jobs - outside the Compendium. It's not like they can just drop absolutely everything to fight a company that has far more resources, lawyers and experience.

And don't think they don't care. They aren't talking or fretting about it in public because that wouldn't do any good for anyone. You can only mourn and mope for so long. It's time to move on, give them some breathing room, and rebuild in other ways.

KebreI

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2009, 02:44:01 pm »
I would love to say they have a vaild case TheGary, but two thing are biteing them is the ass right now. A) The readme file outright state that if square demands something they will do it, as well as accepting that even if it Illegal they are doing it willingly. B) the IPS file is legal but the ROM is much less so, Square can pull the "implied crime card" with out much sweat. If those two were not the case I would say fight the case whole heartedly.



I will say I agree with Dark Serge, I would at least try and talk with them. Then again maybe you are and you just haven't posted anything on it. :D

Dark Serge

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2009, 02:46:59 pm »
What can't they afford?
Fighting this would take a whole lot of time off of real life duties, would infringe on upcoming vacations, interrupt schoolwork, career work and site maintenance, AND there is the risk of that $150,000 fine. The people involved do have lives - and jobs - outside the Compendium. It's not like they can just drop absolutely everything to fight a company that has far more resources, lawyers and experience.

And don't think they don't care. They aren't talking or fretting about it in public because that wouldn't do any good for anyone. You can only mourn and mope for so long. It's time to move on, give them some breathing room, and rebuild in other ways.

Ah, but will it take more effort then creating Crimson Echoes? Cause if it doesn't, I don't see the validity in this argument. They could spare time to create CE, so why not for this? "Can't be arsed" isn't a valid answer either here.

Moping and mourning isn't gonna solve anything.

Also, forget that readme file. What are they gonna prove with that. Delete it and pretend it never existed. They've got nothing on you.

TheGary

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2009, 02:50:18 pm »
People seem to be scared because SE is such a large company, but the fact is that they would have a hell of a time putting this case together as well and there is no way that it would be worth it to bust 2-3 people for making a mod of a SNES game that was released 15 years ago. All together, if they won the case, they would get their fines for $150,000 plus or whatever which no one here has, so basically they would lose out and all they could possibly do is put a couple people in prison for making a mod for an obsolete game.

There is no way that they will pursue a case here as there is no benefit for them doing so. They wouldn't get a beneficial judgment and they sure as hell wouldn't get good publicity from it.

KebreI

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2009, 03:00:23 pm »
People seem to be scared because SE is such a large company, but the fact is that they would have a hell of a time putting this case together as well and there is no way that it would be worth it to bust 2-3 people for making a mod of a SNES game that was released 15 years ago. All together, if they won the case, they would get their fines for $150,000 plus or whatever which no one here has, so basically they would lose out and all they could possibly do is put a couple people in prison for making a mod for an obsolete game.

There is no way that they will pursue a case here as there is no benefit for them doing so. They wouldn't get a beneficial judgment and they sure as hell wouldn't get good publicity from it.
If SE wins: they get the money, CE isn't released, it set a precedent that can ruin future romhacks, the CE team will be ruined.
If SE lost: They don't get the money, CE is released, ROM hacking is the same as before, CE get or losses nothing.


Either way SE will be fine or better, but the CE team will get nothing other then a warm feeling in there gut because "they did the right thing and fought". As long as there is a risk of failure and no real reward for success why do it?  I want CE, I want TF even more(really am I the only one here?) but I don't want to risk the financial future of Z, Agent12 even more.


HOWEVER!! I will say, again, they should take full advantage of out of court discussions and see what you can get from SE. It may be very little but even that helps in the long run. As far as I am aware of Out of Court Talks are costing you anything other them time(which is important I know).

placidchap

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2009, 03:05:41 pm »
Either way SE will be fine or better, but the CE team will get nothing other then a warm feeling in there gut because "they did the right thing and fought". As long as there is a risk of failure and no real reward for success why do it? 

There is not enough "Fighting for what is right" in these times.  It only seems to be for "real rewards" as you put it, aka financial gain.

Talah Rama

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2009, 03:57:07 pm »
If there's still a copy floating around somewhere that hasn't been destroyed, hold on to it.  Finish it.  They can't do anything if it's for personal use.

Maybe in the future, they'll be reasonable.  Or forget.

Agent 12

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 03:59:43 pm »
KebreI

TF is fine, we just can't put  tutorials on how to "circumvent copyright protection" or whatever on the website.  I am 99% sure that's total BS, I don't think CT has copyright protection.

--JP

Romana

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 04:58:01 pm »
I am 99% sure that's total BS, I don't think CT has copyright protection.

Which is why it's possible they're thinking it's some sort of hack on the DS version (thus there's a big reason they'd feel threatened by this), considering it does have copyright protection and the exact same release name.

I'm not getting into stupid suspicion theories or anything again, just felt it had to be addressed.

Agent 12

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2009, 05:12:06 pm »
Well they definitely know that the demo was released several years ago (before DS was even announced).

But.....well anything is possible I guess.  I'm pretty sure they don't care about what the medium even is though, they are protecting the IP, the characters/places etc.

--JP

Ramsus

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2009, 05:12:18 pm »
The thing is they can't afford to argue, The team knows they have some laws and precedents on there side. Regaurdless square has unmatch resources that pretty much nulls everything they've got. 

What can't they afford? SE can't afford to take this to court, because they know it is baseless. They are just sending out empty threats in order to scare people and keep them in line. Also, as I said before, do they actually think that it's a stand alone release or do they know it's a patch? If it's a patch, there is nothing they can do about it.

I definitely say that it should be expressed to them what the project actually is and what it is intended for at least. If there is no response, I would say get some free legal advice from a lawyer and they might even tell you that their C&D is baseless.

The point here is that there will be no court date, there will be no fighting it on SE's part. They are just throwing out an empty threat and they have no authority to stop you from releasing a patch to a game.

Seriously, there are countless games out there for the PC and for SNES emulators where patches or modifications similar to these are released all the time and they are perfectly legal. The problem seems to be that SE thinks that these games are being made as stand alone projects and they are in turn passing out illegal copies of a rom in a modified state.

They could state that they have not authorized people who have a copy of the game to have a ROM image of the game as well like I believe a few companies have already done so. In that case, they still can't tell you to not release a patch to that ROM as the patch itself is still not illegal, only the ROM image itself would be.

Not everyone can afford a few years of litigation and court battles -- not because it costs money, but because it costs time. Imagine they lose the first case and have to appeal? Or they win and Square Enix appeals? Then it goes to a higher court and so on. Even if we win, Square Enix could drag this battle on for years, ruining both Z and Agent 12's chances at living a normal life by setting them back several years in employment and job advancement.

Seriously, what do you tell your next employer when you have to explain a sudden 7-year gap in your employment history? What do you tell the girl you were going to move in with and start a new life with? Hell, just what do you tell your current employer? That you were fighting for the essential human right to modify video games and save the Internet?

Also, what makes you think they can't start a dialog with Square Enix without involving the court? Of course they can -- everyone likes to settle things before having to make everything public and pay court costs. Hell, out of court we'd probably be able to get a somewhat favorable outcome with clearly defined stipulations much more quickly than if we spent years in court fighting tooth and nail over everything.

Besides, this is a highly dynamic, complex situation that's changing daily. Who knows what's happened since this news post was made?

If you really want to help, quit playing wannabe lawyer and find a real, experienced Intellectual Property lawyer who would care about this issue and could give Agent 12 and Z more helpful advice on how to take a stronger position without incriminating themselves.

Or just go spread the news, but quit giving the same legal advice we get from 12 year olds and middle age guys still living in their mom's basement.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 05:19:35 pm by Ramsus »

Dark Serge

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2009, 05:20:23 pm »
Oh I thought these things would go like in Phoenix Wright, and you just appear in court and you get a not guilty verdict  :?

anyway it's a pretty good idea, i mean a game where in zeality and the team go out on an adventure to battle evil game companies and save the internet

Lord J Esq

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2009, 05:23:45 pm »
Oh I thought these things would go like in Phoenix Wright, and you just appear in court and you get a not guilty verdict  :?

anyway it's a pretty good idea, i mean a game where in zeality and the team go out on an adventure to battle evil game companies and save the internet

I wouldn't want to play a game with ZeaLitY as the main character. His brand of enthusiasm works well for boss battles, but I just don't want to have to go through a Springtime of Youth speech every time we encounter a spiky lemur or a poisonous flower. Plus, the special effects for his attacks would bankrupt us. =(

Glenn27

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Re: C&D: Directors' Response
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2009, 05:41:41 pm »
So I saw this game on the news today....

I viewed two videos on Youtube- they were so beautiful that it nearly brought tears to my eyes.  At long last, a -real- sequel was being made to Chrono Trigger. (not "Chrono Cross" which was terrible)

However, old SE decides to march in and threaten you guys at the last second.

Five years of your life down the drain.... and you're just going to give up like that?  They waited that long just to cut you off at the very last second?  Didn't the people of Zeal always reach for the sky?  Are you that prepared to sacrifice all your dreams and hard work and allow nothing to come of it in the name of "respecting" a company which has no respect for it's fans?

Would SE really come after you?  Hmm... if they did, guess what?  THE WHOLE GAMING COMMUNITY WOULD SUPPORT YOU!  Both in America AND in Japan!  SE would be forced to back off!

Fan fictions are accepted and this is no different from a fan fiction!  It is wrong of them to threaten you!

And if they did fine you- well, you know what?  I'd be willing to send you guys some money to cover any fines!  350 bucks, guaranteed!  If you guys put up a collection for it others gladly help you too!  I believe many other fans would, I sure as hell would!

SE is being evil here.  Nintendo does not crush Mario mods and threaten their makers mercilessly and yet, SE has that vicious, cruel, corporate-mindset.

Unlike the souless RIAA, SE actually would have to worry about fan reactions- they would not win in such a fight.  Even if they "won", countless fans would have your back and do everything they can to support you!  You're thinking of "protecting" your regular life but this game is such a huge part of your life!  Are you willing to simply sacrifice that part of yourselves forever?

Please- before you surrender all your dreams- consider the hard work and beautiful product you made!  I hope one day you change your mind and should SE ever come after you then know that I and many countless other CT fans yearning for a true sequel will do all we can to support you in every way possible!