Author Topic: C&D: Director's Response  (Read 24490 times)

Daniel Krispin

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2009, 04:43:00 pm »
Well, what I think is there should be a copyright on the exact work itself, but not on derivations thereof. It requires the artist to keep a certain level of performance if they wish to do anything more with it. Essentially, if someone else can follow up on it and do better with it, the right to use it passes then to the other person. However, the artist would retain copyright for the original work. In this case, then, SE would keep a copyright on CT itself, but anyone would be free to make a sequel. And if SE is really that good at making these games, it truly shouldn't matter because their product will out-perform the others, and they should not need any sort of further protection. But if the product is inferior, then the superior product made by others is to be had by the public.

mav

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2009, 04:47:35 pm »
Well, I think a huge problem today is that Square probably wants to protect the brand-name. They may be worried about the quality of this ROM hack and how it would affect the series in terms of continuity, finances, as well reputation. But if quality and reputation are what they're worried about, they should take the time to play through the actual game and evaluate it by their own standards.

Lord J Esq

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2009, 05:50:06 pm »
Well, what I think is there should be a copyright on the exact work itself, but not on derivations thereof. It requires the artist to keep a certain level of performance if they wish to do anything more with it. Essentially, if someone else can follow up on it and do better with it, the right to use it passes then to the other person. However, the artist would retain copyright for the original work. In this case, then, SE would keep a copyright on CT itself, but anyone would be free to make a sequel. And if SE is really that good at making these games, it truly shouldn't matter because their product will out-perform the others, and they should not need any sort of further protection. But if the product is inferior, then the superior product made by others is to be had by the public.

This would have the unfortunate side effect of achieving exactly what you're trying to avoid: making large companies hyper-competitive and squeezing out small-time artists. Your mistake is assuming that artistic merit is the measure by which people spend their dollars. If Individual U has an Excellent Idea E, but can only execute it on a Fixed Budget F, and then Scheming Corporation S swoops down and makes E its own, and collects the lion's share of the profits, then we wind up with a fundamental imbalance in the creative expression:

SE > FU

Your philosophy is spot-on, but your implementation is hopelessly flawed.

RySenkari

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2009, 05:53:57 pm »
Instead of giving anyone free reign to make a profit off of a derivative work, the copyright laws just need to be changed so that more non-profit derivative works (i.e. fanfiction, game mods, etc.) are allowed, provided they include a disclaimer that explicitly disassociates it with the real thing. I don't think that would scare any content creators away, and companies wouldn't have to protect their IP by going after them because they'd already be legally allowed.

Thought

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2009, 05:58:02 pm »
SE > FU

Beautiful letter choice.

Instead of giving anyone free reign to make a profit off of a derivative work, the copyright laws just need to be changed so that more non-profit derivative works (i.e. fanfiction, game mods, etc.) are allowed, provided they include a disclaimer that explicitly disassociates it with the real thing.

A wonderful business tactic, then, would be for Big Business A to squash Up and Coming Competitor B by making so many non-profit derivative works that Up and Coming Competitor B couldn't release new products because of a saturated market.

Laws can always be abused by the mildly clever.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #125 on: May 15, 2009, 02:10:03 am »
Well, what I think is there should be a copyright on the exact work itself, but not on derivations thereof. It requires the artist to keep a certain level of performance if they wish to do anything more with it. Essentially, if someone else can follow up on it and do better with it, the right to use it passes then to the other person. However, the artist would retain copyright for the original work. In this case, then, SE would keep a copyright on CT itself, but anyone would be free to make a sequel. And if SE is really that good at making these games, it truly shouldn't matter because their product will out-perform the others, and they should not need any sort of further protection. But if the product is inferior, then the superior product made by others is to be had by the public.

This would have the unfortunate side effect of achieving exactly what you're trying to avoid: making large companies hyper-competitive and squeezing out small-time artists. Your mistake is assuming that artistic merit is the measure by which people spend their dollars. If Individual U has an Excellent Idea E, but can only execute it on a Fixed Budget F, and then Scheming Corporation S swoops down and makes E its own, and collects the lion's share of the profits, then we wind up with a fundamental imbalance in the creative expression:

SE > FU

Your philosophy is spot-on, but your implementation is hopelessly flawed.

Likely as not. It was, I suppose, just a flare of idealism.

Glenn27

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2009, 12:06:09 am »
Sorry if I came across as fanboyish way too strongly.


But my point is that quitting isn't what the creators want, if they just quite then they're not doing it because they -want- nobody to play their game, they're doing it because they're fearful and intimidated by SE Corporation.

However, quitting isn't the best option for them.  Think about it- you only have a chance to be young once in your life.  Then you grow up and have to work in some crappy cubicle pretending to like people who are jerks so you can make money and fetching coffee and donuts for pinhead bosses.

If they do quit then this is something that'll bother them for a VERY long time and something they'll regret greatly.  Time will never fully heal those wounds.

Releasing it would be better for them on a personal level.  Whatever SE might toss at them (and bear in mind that they have to worry about reactions from fan sites and the gaming community and mod community) will NOT be as bad as the eternal regret the creators will carry to their graves.  SE's legal bullshit will blow over soon, and won't be so bad because fans would turn against them if they went all RIAA on them.  The regrets the creators will carry will never go away.  That's why I think they gotta release the game.  Not just for us fans but most of all for themselves and their own personal welfare.

FaustWolf

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2009, 12:15:08 am »
Glenn27, it's probably a whole other world when you're the one with the C&D hanging over you. We probably can't imagine quite what the parties named in the C&D have been going through. Still, regardless of which viewpoint you have I think we can agree that the best option for the time being is to get the channels of communication open. SE stepped into this without full knowledge of what the Compendium was doing or how Chrono fans would react en masse. Both sides need to fully understand each other's position before doing anything rash.

Glenn27

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2009, 12:24:49 am »
Okay that makes sense.... (sorry to any SE people my posts may have offended)


Two questions.... one, have you tried contacting Japanese news sites?  The creators might be sympathetic if they knew though I don't know if Japanese news sites would carry something like this. (actually, not knowing any Japanese, I'm clueless about their news.  And I'm sure the creators are clueless about Kotaku)



And two, good luck with your talking to SE, do you have any idea how long until discussions will be definitively complete?

FaustWolf

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #129 on: May 16, 2009, 12:39:56 am »
I honestly have no idea whether the news of the C&D has hopped languages to Japanese sites yet; anyone know?

With the communication process on SE's side filtering through multiple chains of command and multiple departments, let alone multiple countries potentially, we need to be patient as they talk to those named in the C&D. We know Chrono fans are eagerly waiting for some kind of new news on the situation, and we are too. We'll be sure to let you all know when further developments happen.

Vehek

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #130 on: May 16, 2009, 12:57:35 am »
It's on some Japanese sites, though I don't know how many places it's gone to, or if it's reached Japanese news sites.

http://hakopina.blog87.fc2.com/blog-entry-346.html

I've also seen a mention on 2channel in a CT-hacking thread.

FaustWolf

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #131 on: May 16, 2009, 01:13:26 am »
Wow, I wonder if Japanese fans are feverishly trying to whip up translations of what's said in the preview videos, or maybe what's in the C&D.

IAmSerge

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #132 on: May 16, 2009, 02:40:24 am »
Wow, I wonder if Japanese fans are feverishly trying to whip up translations of what's said in the preview videos, or maybe what's in the C&D.

that would be pretty cool...

...what would be even cooler is if one of our compendiumites (who somehow knows Japanese) took the video and whipped it up with japanese subtitles for em

OverlordMikey

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #133 on: May 16, 2009, 04:04:47 am »
It's on some Japanese sites, though I don't know how many places it's gone to, or if it's reached Japanese news sites.

http://hakopina.blog87.fc2.com/blog-entry-346.html

I've also seen a mention on 2channel in a CT-hacking thread.

Wow I used that wierd babelfish thing for the first time and boy does it transilate things....well literely..of course it's a computer program so obviously it would.

So basicly it says the same thing everything as says....how pleasent. ^.^

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Re: C&D: Director's Response
« Reply #134 on: May 16, 2009, 04:47:15 am »
So as not to beat a dead horse once more I'll make this quick. In regards to Glenn27 I'll say again. If you were in their shoes could you possibly handle the potential of up to $150K in fines, plus court costs and possible jail time? If your answer is yes then apprently you've got bigger balls then all of us...lol

This seems to be the one thing people who are shouting "RELEASE IT!" are missing. Sure you may regret not putting it out after working on it so long but the regrets are going to be much bigger when your more than likely broke and/or in prison.

Anyway grats on the story hopping the pond guys. Wish I was fluent in Japanese so I could help out too. I think the idea was tossed around in one of the many topics already but can someone fluent perhaps try to contact that big Japanese game mag Famisu? (at least I think that's what they are called)

If not them then try someone else. Someone that may actually hold influence with either a big mag or gaming site or even god willing someone like Akira Toriyama ^_~
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 04:53:09 am by Enigma Outlaw »