Author Topic: Cease & Desist Letter  (Read 176960 times)

KitsuneSefam

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #735 on: May 26, 2009, 09:39:58 pm »
Square Enix Lavos Enix , you're pretty pathetic. Good luck going into a holy war against the internet to get all your almighty copyrighted stuff out of the internet. Oh wait, I don't have the right to think about it, it's effing COPYRIGHTED! "C&d'ed by Lavos Enix"

This just beats Gantendo's marketing strategies. (Get the reference much?)

Anyway, I'd like to see how other video games companies would answer to this same question too.

odekam

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #736 on: May 26, 2009, 10:02:14 pm »
Quote
All game materials, including, but not limited to, their design, text, graphics, screen shots, files are copyrighted by SQUARE ENIX Co., Ltd.  All rights reserved. Any other use of materials of our games -- including any commercial use, reproduction for purposes other than that noted above, modification, distribution, or republication -- without the prior written permission of SQUARE ENIX is strictly prohibited. No materials of our games may be used on any other product, published, or otherwise performed in public.

If we had to follow what they say, all the stuff on the compendium or likely internet itself would be down.

ZaichikArky

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #737 on: May 26, 2009, 10:35:24 pm »
Until today, I had never heard of Crimson Echoes, or at least I never paid attention to it.  Even if I had heard about it, I probably would not have played it.  I prefer to play games on consoles, and I'm not that much of a fan of fan games.

Now that I have read the announcement, though, I am utterly sickened by this development.  This feels like a punch in the gut.

I know there have been countless posts like this, but Chrono Compendium as a website/organization has been for the fans and allowed people to show appreciation for the games they love.  It isn't about promoting an individual or making money, and this humility is a rare trait on the Internet.

I can understand why Square Enix would do this, although I really wish that if Square were going to squash the project, that they would at least let it live in some form, even if they published Crimson Echoes in tact as a new game or something and gave you no credit at all.  As horrible as it would be, at least all that hard work would not have been for nothing.

What I can't understand if why they would shut this down, but let other people actually profit off their copyrighted work from other games without permission.  You all didn't ask for a dime.  You weren't looking for glory.  You spent years of your lives on a project out of love.  Meanwhile, others can be far less selfless and prop themselves up, and yet they run around scot free.

This makes me want to cry, and worry what other fan works will be targeted next.

Oh for the love of....  I don't care how long, or how literate it is, we do not need to hear the pleas of every single person who has heard of CE for the first time, and wishes to send their condolences.  Honestly, crying and letting everyone know your feelings will not help the situation. It will merely annoy some people (AKA me) or just not affect the situation.  You won't get any (Well, maybe some but only a little) sympathy from these kinda of posts.  Honestly, we should have a big sign on the main site saying no whining in the forums.  Because I am getting tired of it....  Anyway, that's the ranting from the newb for today.

don't be a prick. some people are hearing about this for the first time...

Belaith

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #738 on: May 26, 2009, 10:53:39 pm »
Eh, this whole incident has gotten me really pissed off, so I've been saying a bunch of stupid stuff. I hope this whole situation works out so that everyone gets to play CE, but the less likely that's become, the angrier I've gotten. I know a lot of people around here don't want me staying pissed at S-E, but I think I'm going to resent them for this for a long time to come no matter what anyone says.

I for one welcome the ongoing enmity. Square Enix will not change its ways until forced by a court, a legislature, or a huge wad of money. That's how progress happens. The villains usually have the law on their side, until suddenly they don't anymore.

The people who defy the big media companies are the ones who will eventually trigger the events which bring about better copyright laws. I recall that it was you who said, earlier in this thread, that the CE team is a bunch of cowards for complying without a fight. Maybe there was some of that. But it was a pretty straightforward strategic decision. Not every single injustice can be a trigger for change. This time, the ingredients simply weren't there. All of us at the Compendium management and everyone on the CE development staff disagree with SE's legal reasoning, but it's definitely a gray area. The development team stood an excellent chance of losing any suit, for lack of money, for lack of solid legal arguments, and for lack of friendly legal precedent on this matter. Their only real mistake was publicizing the game ahead of release. Had it been released, and then followed up with the marketing blitz, there would have certainly been a C&D letter, but probably no lawsuit, because the development team would have complied, but the game itself would have already been out there for the world to pirate as it saw fit.

The development team got a firsthand taste of the story of Icarus. They knew there would be a C&D, but they had not truly grappled with the ramifications of it. In all my time here, I have consistently counseled "serious" fan projects to stay underground. No one seems to take me seriously. Oh well. Maybe this will change things. One thing is for certain: Square Enix has won this round decisively, but, if the thinking of the fan community evolves as a result of this disaster, then the next feature-length fan game will be released under the radar, and thus the long struggle for intellectual property law reform will be that much farther along. I expect the video game industry, and SE in particular, to "get it" much sooner than, say, the music industry--which has been eviscerated by its own trade group--but for that to happen there will have to be compelling fan works out there, accessible to the world, and thus able to demonstrate their value. If you're looking for a show of contrition from the development team, they would certainly tell you that they regret being so visible with the game prior to its release, which undermined their ability not only in releasing a feature-length Chrono game, but to participating (productively) in advancing the relationship between game companies, fans, and fan projects.

Being an ideologue isn't very useful. Strategically, the dev team undermined their own ability to put up a serious challenge to Square Enix by being so loose with the game prior to its release. Once the C&D was sent out, it was already too late to defy it. Any show of resistance would have, very likely, cost JP (and potentially ZeaLitY) a lot of money--possibly in court judgments, but certainly in legal expenses defending in court.
Dammit, J. If I see one more post like this I'm going to ban you.

FaustWolf

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #739 on: May 26, 2009, 11:40:08 pm »
Now, now, Laith. We're all getting along peacably. I can't possibly fathom why anyone would even think of using the word "ban" around here, especially at a time like this. We're all one big happy pissed community, and we must be able to trust one another if we are to stand in solidarity.

That is what I believe...at least for now.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:41:42 pm by FaustWolf »

Lord J Esq

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #740 on: May 27, 2009, 12:43:35 am »
Are you kidding, Faust? I've got a list ten miles high of people who are getting permabanned the instant my Moon Stone recharges.

(That's what sapped it the last time...)

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #741 on: May 27, 2009, 12:56:31 am »
Are you kidding, Faust? I've got a list ten miles high of people who are getting permabanned the instant my Moon Stone recharges.

(That's what sapped it the last time...)

Shit, well, in that case, I'm bloody glad I've got a Sunstone with me. Hopefully it's enough to deflect the awesome powers of J's Moonstone Ban.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #742 on: May 27, 2009, 01:09:36 am »
I do believe a reinvigorated Moon Stone becomes a Sun Stone...so you're still toast.

Except you're not, 'cause I'd never ban you, 'cause you're much too excellent a contributor to the site and much too kind to put up with the likes of me. =)

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #743 on: May 27, 2009, 08:28:00 am »
Rainbow Shell, nuff' said

OverlordMikey

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #744 on: May 27, 2009, 11:30:56 am »
I love the way people act like complete jerks when things turn bad. Just as the anger starts dying down someone starts trying to make trouble. Anger blocks rationality.  On the other hand I don't like Lord J Esq because I feel he is a creator of anger. I mean who welcomes enmity, not me that's for sure.

Also to Nangbaby, I'm sure the more rational member of the compendium thank you for your words. Mikisho don't be so rude just because someone showed sympathy, your going to make us look bad.

Come everyone let's not act like a bunch of jerks, are we the kind of fans who take our anger out on random people because we didn't get out way? I thought we where better then that.

I would like to note every E-mail we have seen from the people at SE has been very polite, perhaps we should show the same dignity.

Mikisho

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #745 on: May 27, 2009, 03:51:48 pm »
Lol, I started Chaos xD.  Sorry everbody....  >_>....  Also...  I hope Im not on that ten mile high list <_<...  being on a perma ban list after 2 and a half weeks isnt something I'd like to brag about >_>

Lord J Esq

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #746 on: May 27, 2009, 04:58:50 pm »
On the other hand I don't like Lord J Esq because I feel he is a creator of anger. I mean who welcomes enmity, not me that's for sure.

I think Lynx did, although that's not necessarily the most favorable example to my case...

I was just responding to Ry; there are emotions all across the spectrum in response to the C&D letter, and there's no point in selectively dismissing them. By accommodating everyone who wants to respond to this, in their own way, we are providing a community for everyone rather than for only those people who think like you. So, unless someone is violating the Terms of Service or is intruding on the experience of other community members (which does not extend to protecting you from being exposed to potentially offensive comments), all voices are welcome.

As it so happens I think SE made a totally bogus move. I don't personally feel much enmity toward them, because I wasn't one of the people who just had years of work shut down. However, on an ideological level, I think that what they're doing to their fans is just short of a betrayal, and it is certainly exploitative. You're darn right I feel some enmity on that count. That doesn't mean I can't behave myself or would advocate taking inappropriate retaliatory measures. And it certainly doesn't mean that I'm a "creator" of anger. On the contrary I have worked hard to put my own emotions aside and help guide the management and the community through this crisis. Other than to express my ideological dissatisfaction with SE's policy on fan projects, I haven't shared my own, personal opinions with anyone--not even ZeaLitY. In this thread I am simply trying to fulfill my obligation as a community steward. If you look back at some of my other posts in this thread, I think you'll see that I'm not advocating a hardline position at all.

You're welcome to hate enmity, but I think that's just as coarse and just as useless a position as loving it. I "welcomed" it for Ry because I can't change the minds of people like him, at least not on the spot, but I can let everyone know what is welcome and what is not, and enmity in a situation like this...is welcome. So are the temperance and dignity you are advocating. We must use judgment when it comes to taking a position and deciding how strongly to stand our ground. What you are advocating, unintentionally, is "the weak striving to be weaker." If you're willing to be dictated to in all circumstances, then I can think of many people and organizations who would love your membership. Not me, though.

I would like to note every E-mail we have seen from the people at SE has been very polite, perhaps we should show the same dignity.

That's an interesting comment. Other than the flimsiest veneer of professionally courteous verbiage, I have seen no such sentiment from SE, and I defy you to prove your claim. Let's not mistake polite words with genuine graciousness. I would hope that everybody uses polite words in dealing with one another, unless the circumstances are exceptional. But what I would really, earnestly hope is that everybody shows a little grace. SE could have gotten so much from the CE team that it ended up getting anyway, simply by offering the team something meaningful in return. Instead, SE has fostered the lasting enmity, cynicism, disgust, contempt, dismay, and disillusionment of dozens if not hundreds of people, and the marginal ire of thousands more. If you would tell people what emotions to feel in response to a specific event, and would exclude from your prescriptions many of the emotions that people are quite likely to experience, then you're either a fool or a dreamer and in either case you will have your work cut out for you.

IAmSerge

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #747 on: May 27, 2009, 05:04:04 pm »
*sigh* foolishness, I say.

One way or another, SE being polite or otherwise, WE should be polite.

Being polite is a way to earn respect.  Being impolite will get you looked down upon and ignored.
Don't be a dumbass, be polite.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #748 on: May 27, 2009, 05:09:34 pm »
*sigh* foolishness, I say.

One way or another, SE being polite or otherwise, WE should be polite.

Being polite is a way to earn respect.  Being impolite will get you looked down upon and ignored.
Don't be a dumbass, be polite.

Being polite spared ZeaLitY and JP any risk of lawsuit. It got us exactly zero else. Once we went supine, SE walked all over us. You'll see that in the news update today.

If I may corrupt a famous maxim, when an elephant is stepping on a mouse, it does the mouse zero good to be polite about it, and it makes zero difference if the elephant is being polite about it.

knuck

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #749 on: May 27, 2009, 05:24:29 pm »
I for one welcome the ongoing enmity. Square Enix will not change its ways until forced by a court, a legislature, or a huge wad of money. That's how progress happens. The villains usually have the law on their side, until suddenly they don't anymore.

The people who defy the big media companies are the ones who will eventually trigger the events which bring about better copyright laws. I recall that it was you who said, earlier in this thread, that the CE team is a bunch of cowards for complying without a fight. Maybe there was some of that. But it was a pretty straightforward strategic decision. Not every single injustice can be a trigger for change. This time, the ingredients simply weren't there. All of us at the Compendium management and everyone on the CE development staff disagree with SE's legal reasoning, but it's definitely a gray area. The development team stood an excellent chance of losing any suit, for lack of money, for lack of solid legal arguments, and for lack of friendly legal precedent on this matter. Their only real mistake was publicizing the game ahead of release. Had it been released, and then followed up with the marketing blitz, there would have certainly been a C&D letter, but probably no lawsuit, because the development team would have complied, but the game itself would have already been out there for the world to pirate as it saw fit.

The development team got a firsthand taste of the story of Icarus. They knew there would be a C&D, but they had not truly grappled with the ramifications of it. In all my time here, I have consistently counseled "serious" fan projects to stay underground. No one seems to take me seriously. Oh well. Maybe this will change things. One thing is for certain: Square Enix has won this round decisively, but, if the thinking of the fan community evolves as a result of this disaster, then the next feature-length fan game will be released under the radar, and thus the long struggle for intellectual property law reform will be that much farther along. I expect the video game industry, and SE in particular, to "get it" much sooner than, say, the music industry--which has been eviscerated by its own trade group--but for that to happen there will have to be compelling fan works out there, accessible to the world, and thus able to demonstrate their value. If you're looking for a show of contrition from the development team, they would certainly tell you that they regret being so visible with the game prior to its release, which undermined their ability not only in releasing a feature-length Chrono game, but to participating (productively) in advancing the relationship between game companies, fans, and fan projects.

Being an ideologue isn't very useful. Strategically, the dev team undermined their own ability to put up a serious challenge to Square Enix by being so loose with the game prior to its release. Once the C&D was sent out, it was already too late to defy it. Any show of resistance would have, very likely, cost JP (and potentially ZeaLitY) a lot of money--possibly in court judgments, but certainly in legal expenses defending in court.
Hey, other than my second or third post in this topic, this is the best post in here! =D