Author Topic: Cease & Desist Letter  (Read 176967 times)

IAmSerge

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #555 on: May 21, 2009, 12:44:44 pm »
Just popping in really quickly to say this made the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/may/21/game-theory-copyright

Edit:  And, I just noticed the irony of the above statement.

Edit 2:  Would that really fall under the heading of irony?

i dunno but I think it would be ironic if you had to edit it a 3rd time due to the mistake =D

mav

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #556 on: May 21, 2009, 01:25:45 pm »
WHOOAAAA, thanks Uboa! Compendium's gone big time now!

And that's a damn fine article!
I agree--that was possibly the most well-written and well-informed article yet. His outlook is very enlightening.

Dark Serge

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #557 on: May 21, 2009, 01:33:21 pm »
Conversely he's not really helping though. He merely states that sometimes game modifications are supported and sometimes they aren't.

Also, I have no idea how things are right now, and I know you all don't have the liberty to talk inside stuff, but if you're gonna do something, I'd make haste. If you let too much time pass Square Enix will consider the case closed for good.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #558 on: May 21, 2009, 02:20:17 pm »
WHOOAAAA, thanks Uboa! Compendium's gone big time now!

And that's a damn fine article!
I agree--that was possibly the most well-written and well-informed article yet. His outlook is very enlightening.
Yeah, I like that guy. In fact, I'm going to adopt/steal his last three words. "Embrace and Assist!"

mav

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #559 on: May 21, 2009, 03:00:08 pm »
Conversely he's not really helping though. He merely states that sometimes game modifications are supported and sometimes they aren't.
True, but he's a journalist, and I doubt he's able to delve deeply into something that could be perceived as "controversial". However he was bold enough frown upon SE's actions and suggest alternatives--and really, aside from getting the facts straight, that's about all we can ask of most of these guys.
Also, I have no idea how things are right now, and I know you all don't have the liberty to talk inside stuff, but if you're gonna do something, I'd make haste. If you let too much time pass Square Enix will consider the case closed for good.
Aye, Faust, is anything crucial going on behind the scenes? I know Zeality is out of town, but haven't some developments been made on this front? Are we getting anywhere in establishing a dialog with Square?

FaustWolf

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #560 on: May 21, 2009, 03:53:56 pm »
There is unfortunately nothing substantive to report yet on the dialogue front.

However, we're preparing a little something for y'all. Even in worst-case scenario you'll get to see the full game even if you can't play it. SE has probably seen us dropping hints of video footage, and let's just say that they've had ample opportunity to express any concerns they might have about that, and yet have not done so.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 03:56:15 pm by FaustWolf »

LinkSlySora

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #561 on: May 21, 2009, 05:40:09 pm »
There is unfortunately nothing substantive to report yet on the dialogue front.

However, we're preparing a little something for y'all. Even in worst-case scenario you'll get to see the full game even if you can't play it. SE has probably seen us dropping hints of video footage, and let's just say that they've had ample opportunity to express any concerns they might have about that, and yet have not done so.

That'd be really nice. The fruits of everyone who contributed efforts must be experienced and seen in at least some way. To be honest I was never really into the community of Chrono Trigger, in the sense of remaking and changing it (I got the PS1 version long ago and now more recently the DS version). Last year when some pics of CE appeared and Prophets Guile was made, I became more interested. But without the SNES cartridge (and not being completely sure how to get this stuff to work :/) I haven't been able to try it.

When I heard about this the day it happened, I was very dissapointed, and really annoyed with SE. I think SE was very pre-empitive in their actions, didn't consider everything about the situation before throwing the letter. But from something I read, creating content for yourself is generally okay, as long as it isn't sold (which this isn't, but I guess SE forget to read the memo), which may make making a video not bad.

I'm not completely sure as to why I posted this, but you have my support and I hope that this game and the four years of effort is released (for whatever it is worth).

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #562 on: May 21, 2009, 05:55:05 pm »
If I am correct FaustWolf, [Secrets are secret --JP]

Also, reason being that Everything died down, is because some research is being conducted.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 08:56:28 pm by Agent 12 »

blarg

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #563 on: May 21, 2009, 06:03:38 pm »
I've thought of something that might be neat to try if the secret talks never get anywhere. I can't think of anything wrong with it so I'll post it here and everyone can tell me what they think if there is anything I'm missing or it is the worst idea ever or whatever. Sorry is is long

Basically you said you'd like a 2nd message from square so take the talks public and somebody in the project would write a public email to Square asking them to respond. It would say something like this:

1)First talk about how we suspect the C&D was based on lies and misinformation of a troll (talk about that email posted and why it looks legit with the forum posts on ign and gamespot. And the copy protection stuff suggesting square thought it was the ds version and saying you claim copywrite in the C&D)

2)Then simply ask that square publicly responds with a second C&D letter you'll publicly post confirming that they are aware of all the facts (you are hardcore fans who love them and advertise CT DS in the game and are not profiting and it is an ips patch of the snes version and there is no evidence or reason to believe they will lose profits if it is released. what temporal flux is, negative press showing support for you from gamers) and if they still want you to stop. If they knew all these facts before the first one a second one should be as simple and easy as pie!

3)optionally politely ask for an explanation why they are targeting this game but not any other romhackers on the web for any of their games that are doing the exact same thing as you. Also optionally ask to clarify why is temporal flux illegal when the snes game has no copy protection.

4) If they do not send you anything by some day, you can only logically assume that they have reconsidered after learning more info and that first C&D was based on lies and invalid. you can safely ignore it from then on and square is not aloud to sue you.(maybe ask a lawyer if that is true :P )  and you and all ct fans would be eternally grateful and love them for understanding their fans it was all that troll's fault and you will buy lots of their games. If they do send one you will be sad but continue to comply. 

The plan would be if you don't get a response to finish up CE 100% and release it as quickly as possible without fear of being sued. If they do then youtube is probably the only thing left.

The possible results of this I see are:

1)Square will not sue you immediately for asking for a second C&D to confirm. It is probably not illigal anyways and it will cost them money and publicity and make them look like big jerks when they could just send a free email.

2)It would be illogical to not say anything then sue after you release it. It would cost them money they won't get back make them look like big jerks  and make tonnes of publicity for a game that is now on the internet causing many to play it. Sending a 2nd email before it is released would be better

3) They could respond and stick to their guns. You are no worse off then before but now have that second public response you said you wanted for more negative press now complete with an interesting  story of an internet troll bringing down a community with lies and square being gullible and stubborn. It is an interesting story that will spread everywhere I see a movie based on this.  8)

4) Square sends an apology and free games. hurrah you win there is a huge victory party on the internets :P lol

I hope the plan is clear and I don't see any downsides to doing this. Of course it is up to the CE team and they can do whatever they think is best I'm probably missing some big reason why this would result in disaster. i'm not a lawyer and I don't know what they've said behind the scenes so those people would know better then me.

Keep up the excellent work  :D

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #564 on: May 21, 2009, 06:35:29 pm »
I've thought of something that might be neat to try if the secret talks never get anywhere. I can't think of anything wrong with it so I'll post it here and everyone can tell me what they think if there is anything I'm missing or it is the worst idea ever or whatever. Sorry is is long

Basically you said you'd like a 2nd message from square so take the talks public and somebody in the project would write a public email to Square asking them to respond. It would say something like this:

1)First talk about how we suspect the C&D was based on lies and misinformation of a troll (talk about that email posted and why it looks legit with the forum posts on ign and gamespot. And the copy protection stuff suggesting square thought it was the ds version and saying you claim copywrite in the C&D)

2)Then simply ask that square publicly responds with a second C&D letter you'll publicly post confirming that they are aware of all the facts (you are hardcore fans who love them and advertise CT DS in the game and are not profiting and it is an ips patch of the snes version and there is no evidence or reason to believe they will lose profits if it is released. what temporal flux is, negative press showing support for you from gamers) and if they still want you to stop. If they knew all these facts before the first one a second one should be as simple and easy as pie!

3)optionally politely ask for an explanation why they are targeting this game but not any other romhackers on the web for any of their games that are doing the exact same thing as you. Also optionally ask to clarify why is temporal flux illegal when the snes game has no copy protection.

4) If they do not send you anything by some day, you can only logically assume that they have reconsidered after learning more info and that first C&D was based on lies and invalid. you can safely ignore it from then on and square is not aloud to sue you.(maybe ask a lawyer if that is true :P )  and you and all ct fans would be eternally grateful and love them for understanding their fans it was all that troll's fault and you will buy lots of their games. If they do send one you will be sad but continue to comply

The plan would be if you don't get a response to finish up CE 100% and release it as quickly as possible without fear of being sued. If they do then youtube is probably the only thing left.

The possible results of this I see are:

1)Square will not sue you immediately for asking for a second C&D to confirm. It is probably not illigal anyways and it will cost them money and publicity and make them look like big jerks when they could just send a free email.

2)It would be illogical to not say anything then sue after you release it. It would cost them money they won't get back make them look like big jerks  and make tonnes of publicity for a game that is now on the internet causing many to play it. Sending a 2nd email before it is released would be better

3) They could respond and stick to their guns. You are no worse off then before but now have that second public response you said you wanted for more negative press now complete with an interesting  story of an internet troll bringing down a community with lies and square being gullible and stubborn. It is an interesting story that will spread everywhere I see a movie based on this.  8)

4) Square sends an apology and free games. hurrah you win there is a huge victory party on the internets :P lol

I hope the plan is clear and I don't see any downsides to doing this. Of course it is up to the CE team and they can do whatever they think is best I'm probably missing some big reason why this would result in disaster. i'm not a lawyer and I don't know what they've said behind the scenes so those people would know better then me.

Keep up the excellent work  :D

In court, the thing is, If a case goes undecided for 6 months it has to be dropped. But this isn't in court, This is just a C&D.

Happy-Dude

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #565 on: May 21, 2009, 06:37:06 pm »
Just popping in really quickly to say this made the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/may/21/game-theory-copyright

Edit:  And, I just noticed the irony of the above statement.

Edit 2:  Would that really fall under the heading of irony?

This is really nice: "a new mantra: embrace and assist"

And
I've thought of something that might be neat to try if the secret talks never get anywhere. I can't think of anything wrong with it so I'll post it here and everyone can tell me what they think if there is anything I'm missing or it is the worst idea ever or whatever. Sorry is is long

Basically you said you'd like a 2nd message from square so take the talks public and somebody in the project would write a public email to Square asking them to respond. It would say something like this:

1)First talk about how we suspect the C&D was based on lies and misinformation of a troll (talk about that email posted and why it looks legit with the forum posts on ign and gamespot. And the copy protection stuff suggesting square thought it was the ds version and saying you claim copywrite in the C&D)

...

I hope the plan is clear and I don't see any downsides to doing this. Of course it is up to the CE team and they can do whatever they think is best I'm probably missing some big reason why this would result in disaster. i'm not a lawyer and I don't know what they've said behind the scenes so those people would know better then me.

Keep up the excellent work  :D

Bit bold -- but eventually -- one month in the future, there will be a need for a proper response. I'm really hoping actually... Fans must be addressed, because this is pretty big in the online-gaming(-under?)world.

mav

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #566 on: May 21, 2009, 06:59:38 pm »
3)optionally politely ask for an explanation why they are targeting this game but not any other romhackers on the web for any of their games that are doing the exact same thing as you.
Well put man, and I agree with most of what you said, but not the point I quoted: we shouldn't make ourselves out to be the exception, rather than the rule. Likewise, this could be taken as a slight against our fellow ROM hackers. I'm not saying that following your suggestions would, but we don't need to vilify these people; they're our supporters and we don't need to draw unnecessary attention to them to pacify ourselves.

Samopoznanie

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #567 on: May 21, 2009, 08:29:03 pm »
^^^ Very cool to see that this has gotten coverage in the Gaurdian. Great to see online assembly getting its message out to the general press.

I've been thinking about a detailed hand-written letter, wondering if it'd stand out a bit more than online negotiations.

Enigma Outlaw

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #568 on: May 21, 2009, 09:04:30 pm »
I'm with Blarg. See if you can get with a laywer and find out if you'd be able to give SE a time frame to reply.

(Don't really know how to word this so bear with me)
If the laywer says you can give them a time frame to reply in (say by June 30th) but then they don't then see if you'd be able to release CE without any legal action. Also don't forget the new facts we now know in regards to that troll. I feel that was a game changer right there. Plus point out the fact that it's a patch, it's the SNES version, it's not copy protected, the bad press SE is getting online with links to the bigger ones, ect. At the very least provided nothing leaks then your in the same boat you were in before.

Also I find it cool that the Guardian covered this. I'm guessing in the UK they are like our USA Today. Now for the next step.....NINTENDO POWER, GAMEPRO OR IGN!!! :lol:

Dark3mx

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #569 on: May 22, 2009, 07:43:37 pm »
**UPDATE**
not a big one though, just an email.

Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,

We appreciate your feedback. It will be forwarded to my superiors. Thank you for taking the time to contact us today and we look forward to your opinions of our upcoming titles.

Thanks,
******** - SQUARE ENIX Customer Support
www.square-enix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: ********
Sent: May 22, 2009 2:37:29 PM
Subject: Chrono Trigger - Crimson Echoes

Hello Square-Enix

As a fan of Square-Enix and all of it's works, I am giving you information
that will let you understand some misinterpreted information in the
situation about Chrono Trigger Crimson Echoes and the Cease and Desist that
was sent. The email that was sent on April 9th, 2009 at approx 2:32 PM, Has
been proven to contain false information about the release of Chrono Trigger
Crimson Echoes. The following information can be proven false by either
contact of the accused or by doing further research into the matter than
what has already been done.

"A certain group of people is creating a hacked version of the Chrono
Trigger Super Nintendo game, called Crimson Echoes, using the characters and
music from Chrono Trigger and are trying to make a profit off it.
They have claimed that they intend to charge people money so people can buy
the game. I believe this kind of thing should not be allowed, and perhaps
you'll agree with me in that you should take action against this."

The truth is: Yes, a group of people has been creating a hacked version of
Chrono Trigger for the Super Nintendo, also using your characters and music,
but the creators had no intentions of distributing anything for profit.
There are no claims at all of which the group said that they wanted to
charge people money for the finished game.

"The project is being led by several people whom most can be found at the
Chrono Compendium, www.chronocompendium.com, but the one who is in charge is
********, asministrator there and an individual who has tried to claim your
copyrights of Chrono Trigger and Cross several times before."

The truth is: ******** has never claimed your copyrights, and even in the
demo of the game, it is stated that the copyrights had been used without
permission.

Also, in the Cease and Desist letter that was sent, It has been made out
that Temporal Flux is used to bypass piracy protection on the Nintendo DS
version of Chrono Trigger. That is also false. Temporal flux is used to edit
sprites, maps, events, dialogue etc in the Super Nintendo version of Chrono
Trigger. The anti piracy method is bypassed by temporarily editing the
memory through Action Replay Codes.

Also, The hack was meant to be distributed through IPS patch, so as to avoid
distributing the illegal image of the game. In any case, It would make you
more money in the fact that people will buy the game in order to legally
obtain a backup. Another thing is that in the plan, it was intended in the
very beginning of Crimson Echoes to have an advertisement for Chrono Trigger
for the DS and that if the person did not own a copy of Chrono Trigger that
they should not even have a copy of Crimson Echoes.

Further proof that the email has false information is this.
It is a post taken from the Kagero Studios forum. The link to the post is
here: http://kagerostudios.b1.jcink.com/index.php?showtopic=330&st=135

The information from the email can be found here:
http://kagerostudios.b1.jcink.com/index.php?showtopic=330&st=120

"How very perceptive of you, *******. But also how terribly naive of you
to confuse me with Him.

Originally, he was going for Crisis. It pleasured us greatly when Crisis
died, but frustration came again when Lena decided to start off on her own.
However, CE was also nearing completion and becoming a problem. I went
through the slight trouble of sending a couple of e-mails to Square Enix,
filling them up with a small lie here and there to tempt them. I never
imagined they would really make a move, though. But what was far greater was
the shock that arrived here and the newly assembled Ark team deciding to
drop the Chrono name. Truly, things have worked out far better then we could
have imagined.

And as such, both Crisis and Ark have finally come to an end. You have been
a fine amusement to everyone, and it pleasures me greatly so see this
happen.

Now, press on with your, what was it, "Praxis"? Or was it Devil Theory?

I sincerely hope you won't forgive me.

Bye-bye."

I hope you find this information useful. In my best hopes, I wish that the
Chrono Compendium be granted a fan license not only for being your largest
Chrono Trigger fanbase, but for having the temperament that they had during
the whole situation.

Sincerely,
               *******