Author Topic: Cease & Desist Letter  (Read 118415 times)

Shinkinrui

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #390 on: May 13, 2009, 06:28:40 am »
 :picardno

So now piracy isn't copyright infringement?

Look, I'm not gonna clog up this thread to argue with you here, but see if you can understand these articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

How is Square Enix "BREAKING THE LAW?" They own the copyright on Chrono Trigger, they have the right to distribute it or demand that derivative works not be distributed. The question is, is distributing a patch to change a ROM into a derivative work the same as actually distributing the derivative work itself in the eyes of the law? That's why I see this as a gray area. But I tell you what, I sure as hell wouldn't be willing to have MY ass sued to find out. And I'm willing to bet you wouldn't either, so quit acting like the CE team is doing something wrong by complying with SE for the time being.

Anyway, I hope that some way can be found to let the fans play it eventually. Good luck, all. I'll be rooting for ya.

Xshu

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #391 on: May 13, 2009, 06:41:07 am »
Quote
The question is, is distributing a patch to change a ROM into a derivative work the same as actually distributing the derivative work itself in the eyes of the law?
I really doubt it. I imagine patches are legal in the same sense that bongs are legal, you know? Owning X, which is often used in conjunction with the illegal Y, does not make X illegal by association.

Happy-Dude

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #392 on: May 13, 2009, 07:01:53 am »
Can anyone update me on whether or not the CE team is getting in contact with Square?

...I've just watched the trailer. And I shed some tears :'( ...

Chocobo_Fan

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #393 on: May 13, 2009, 07:48:05 am »
Agh... And just when I was looking forward to this so much...

I know this is a bit late, but... I kind of suffer from this too, since it includes all ROM hacks, and the main reason I joined here was to give my input on some of the hacks... (The Schala Project especially -- I spent a lot of time writing up the script for that...)

Sigh... It's sad, but that's life. It's cruel and unfair. And I don't really blame the development team for their decision. Sometimes you just have to play it safe. The people swearing and bashing SE saying "Who cares? Just release it!" need to stop. You're only hurting the Compendium's image. I know it's been said already, but if this got released, the development team would get blasted to pieces by SE, who has actual, experienced lawyers for this kind of thing, wheras the Compendium does not. Oh, and they might shut down the Compendium too. Do you really want to risk all that on the off-chance that the team will actually win?

I only play these kinds of games for the story anyway, so if there were playthrough videos or plot summaries uploaded (if that won't get the Compendium in more trouble) that would be fine with me. It's not as good as actually playing the game, but I'll live. Someone suggested earlier in the thread to make a "shrine" to Crimson Echoes, and I think that's a good idea.

Well... *sigh* I won't leave, but I won't be posting much anymore. Kajar Laboratories was an amazing place, and I'm sad to see it leave...

TheMage

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #394 on: May 13, 2009, 10:04:17 am »

TheGary

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #395 on: May 13, 2009, 10:12:37 am »
I think your example would be Piracy, not Copyright Infringement.

It's neither. It's modifying a game that you own in order to get a better experience from it which is perfectly legal.

lockgar

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #396 on: May 13, 2009, 11:00:58 am »
Can anyone update me on whether or not the CE team is getting in contact with Square?

...I've just watched the trailer. And I shed some tears :'( ...

I would also like to know if they did. Just to make sure this letter wasn't from some random A-hole on the internet. Anyone can fake a legal letter.

MDenham

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #397 on: May 13, 2009, 12:20:19 pm »
Can anyone update me on whether or not the CE team is getting in contact with Square?

...I've just watched the trailer. And I shed some tears :'( ...

I would also like to know if they did. Just to make sure this letter wasn't from some random A-hole on the internet. Anyone can fake a legal letter.
It's been confirmed to be legitimate by three different people already.

Cyberxion

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #398 on: May 13, 2009, 01:48:34 pm »
I think your example would be Piracy, not Copyright Infringement.

It's neither. It's modifying a game that you own in order to get a better experience from it which is perfectly legal.
I wonder about that. 

If one of you folks have the Chrono Trigger manual, could you look at the terms of use and see if it has a clause forbidding unauthorized modifications of the game?  I know it's pretty-much a standard-issue clause these days unless otherwise stated (in the case of games with built-in editing tools and whatnot), but I don't know if it was something that would have occured to publishers back in the SNES days, given that piracy wasn't as prevalant back then as it is now. 

See, if it's in there, then no, it wouldn't be legal.  If not, then you may have a case...

FaustWolf

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #399 on: May 13, 2009, 02:03:24 pm »
As for piracy, no ROMs were being or would have been distributed -- only patches.

It's like this. Say you buy a dishwasher from Kenmore, but tune it up and give it new features, and even change the way it works, so that while it still consists of the raw material you bought, it's mostly different in content from the user's point of view.

Now if you put your modded dishwasher into some kind of magic cloner, and then distribute that dishwasher, that's piracy.

But let's say you get a magic monkey who has all the instructions on how to modify other people's dishwashers into what you've got for a more satisfying consumer experience. You send not cloned dishwashers, but the monkey, to other people's houses. The monkey works on other people's dishwashers, and transforms their dishwashers - which the consumers already own - into what's sitting in your own kitchen. Everybody should be happy here. Kenmore didn't lose any profits.


As for copyright infringement, now I'm wondering whether Nintendo vs. Galoob applies in the instance of hard modding. A Game Genie was essentially "soft modding" because it didn't change the game's code, only values in memory. TheGary, could you throw up a link to that court case again?

japanzb

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #400 on: May 13, 2009, 04:51:56 pm »

FaustWolf

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #401 on: May 13, 2009, 04:56:04 pm »
Thanks!

mav

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #402 on: May 13, 2009, 05:08:35 pm »
Yeah, I've been wondering that m'self. The Galoob case seems to be one of the standards to look at for us, but I'm wondering about other modification projects. We know that Counter-Strike started out as a Half-Life mod, I wonder what legal precedents they used (if any) to appease Valve.

Idike

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #403 on: May 13, 2009, 05:40:48 pm »
Could 'Fair Use' be an option?


You are not selling the patch and releasing the game with the patch.

How is this illegal?

Maybe they should fine all the fan artists and fan musicians.
 :jiraiya:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 05:42:46 pm by Idike »

mav

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Re: Cease & Desist Letter
« Reply #404 on: May 13, 2009, 05:56:43 pm »
Right, it's complicated, since they're not releasing the ROM--technically the patch doesn't contain any of the copyrighted material, but it's a sticky situation. I suggest reading up on the four factors of Fair Use or reading my post in this topic, alternatively you can read RedNeckJiuJitsu's.