Author Topic: Serge = Janus Theory  (Read 25031 times)

Philosopher1701

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Serge = Janus Theory
« on: April 26, 2005, 09:17:03 am »
I know this might sound like something that doesn't really have any proof to it, but I think I might be on to something. I'm sure that all of you have discussed everything there is to know about any reference to Janus made in Chrono Cross, so I will focus on something that you might not have considered.

At the ending of Chrono Trigger, Magus decides to search for Schala. We never find out if he succeeds or not in Chrono Cross, but there is an interesting parallel. At the ending of Chrono Cross, Schala (Kid), tells Serge that she will be searching for him, and she will travel through time and the dimensions until she finds him. This seems to be reminiscent of Magus' search for Schala. It is possible that "who is searching for who" has been reversed. This would mean that Serge could actually (somehow) be Janus.

I'll let you all elaborate on this, because I am pressed for time, but I do want to point something out. Schala, as she was falling through the Gate that sent her to the Darkness Beyond Time, heard Serge crying from across time. She felt compelled to save him, so she created a clone of herself to watch over him. My question is: Would she have done that for anybody? Could she have heard other people crying, and wanted to help them, too? If Serge didn't have some personal connection to Schala, it seems unlikely that she would have gone through all of that trouble to save him. Unless, it was her brother.............................

DeweyisOverrated

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 12:13:55 pm »
I've actually considered this as well.  In my current fan-fic (really just a script for the Chrono game I'm creating), it explains how Janus is Serge.

SilentMartyr

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 02:39:23 pm »
I... don't think so. Hmm, it is interesting, but there is no evidence that Serge is adopted. If Marge is Serge's biological mother than that idea is out the window.

Sentenal

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 02:42:27 pm »
Impossible.  The only Janus able to Time Travel right now would be Magus, because the Time Bastard theory requires all new version of a Time Traveler to be cast into the DBT.  I don't think you really want me to go into the differences between Serge and Magus, do you?

Magus was supposed to be in CC, as Guile.  But when they had a brain fart, and decided to go the mass-boring-character approach, they cut that back-story from him, because they felt it would make people obligated to use him.

Daniel Krispin

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 03:13:33 pm »
And, beyond that, from a character perspective, there is absolutely no connection between the two, not between Serge and the Magus from CT, or between Serge and the Magil from RD (who is slightly less rough and more formal.) It is true that both are more quiet, but Janus (pardon me, I call him this as per Lucca's convention in her letter to Kid) at least speaks. Moreover, Janus is dark, has little use for fools. Serge is quite the opposite. Also, build. Janus is a huge man, 6'0 at least (all right, not that big; I'm 6'1, and my little brother is 6'6, but comparitively to Serge he's big); Serge is only 5'8 or something like that. Serge is of average build, Janus is a powerful man.

Chrono'99

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 05:17:22 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Impossible.  The only Janus able to Time Travel right now would be Magus, because the Time Bastard theory requires all new version of a Time Traveler to be cast into the DBT.

Kid's pendant and Marle's pendant both coexist though, Kid's one didn't get erased.

Philosopher1701

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2005, 06:05:46 pm »
I forgot to point out that Schala said that when they find each other, they may not know that she is Schala and Serge is Serge. This could have infinite possibilities as to how this could happen and how they wouldn't recognize each other. Maybe this is a possibility as to why Serge doesn't know who he really is.

I have even considered that Serge could have been the product of something similar to Kid (like Project "Serge", with some connection to Janus), but I haven't figured out a way to explain how that could be possible. I think it is interesting, though, that the picture that is shown at the end does not reveal exactly who is standing next to Schala. I mean, if it Serge himself, why not just show that it is Serge and not give it a second thought? Why would the developers "hide" the person standing next to her?

I have also always looked at the Chrono series as the story of the Zeal family (because most of the significant events of the whole series ocurred in Zeal and had a direct connection to the Royal Family), so it would make sense that Serge would have some underlying connection with Schala.

Sentenal

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2005, 08:43:07 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Sentenal
Impossible.  The only Janus able to Time Travel right now would be Magus, because the Time Bastard theory requires all new version of a Time Traveler to be cast into the DBT.

Kid's pendant and Marle's pendant both coexist though, Kid's one didn't get erased.


I'm not sure that Marle and Kid's pendant are even the same.  Were not even sure if Schala's pendant is the same as Marle's.

Rufus

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2005, 10:41:18 pm »
While it's an interesting theory, and it sounds fun, I think I distinctly remember the hair of the man beside Schala being blonde, because you could see the side of his head...  Right?  Maybe my memory's fuzzy.

Anyway, on top of that, Serge grew up in Arni, and was born to Wazuki and Marge.  Wazuki looked a lot like him - I think it's safe to say the man who gave up his life for Serge is his REAL father.

I don't see a possibility.

Crystal Zeal

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2005, 11:38:38 pm »
In the picture?  Wasn't the entire thing in monochromatic anyway?

Radical_Dreamer

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2005, 11:54:56 pm »
I've heard several other reasons suggesting the connection. For one, the fact that they both have blue hair, a rarity in the Chrono series, not to mention green eyes. Both also gain etremely powerful magic, and have powerful effect on history.

Sentenal

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2005, 12:07:46 am »
Magus doesnt have green eyes...  Janus does, but of all the pictures of Magus i've seen, his eye color has changed to red.

Serge doesnt have any magical ablities that he can use.

I see no similarities between Magus and Serge.

Daniel Krispin

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2005, 12:25:15 am »
Quote from: Philosopher1701
I forgot to point out that Schala said that when they find each other, they may not know that she is Schala and Serge is Serge. This could have infinite possibilities as to how this could happen and how they wouldn't recognize each other. Maybe this is a possibility as to why Serge doesn't know who he really is.

I have even considered that Serge could have been the product of something similar to Kid (like Project "Serge", with some connection to Janus), but I haven't figured out a way to explain how that could be possible. I think it is interesting, though, that the picture that is shown at the end does not reveal exactly who is standing next to Schala. I mean, if it Serge himself, why not just show that it is Serge and not give it a second thought? Why would the developers "hide" the person standing next to her?

I have also always looked at the Chrono series as the story of the Zeal family (because most of the significant events of the whole series ocurred in Zeal and had a direct connection to the Royal Family), so it would make sense that Serge would have some underlying connection with Schala.

Perhaps, or yet Lavos' tale. He is, after all, the only thing that is fully constant through all its incarnations.
But anyway, it really is quite impossible that Serge is Janus, and the connections are really only superficial. As someone pointed out, it is beyond doubt known who was to be Janus, and that was Guile. If you've ever played Radical Dreamers, it shows the distinct characters of Magil/Janus, Kid/Schala, and Serge. However, for whatever reasons - time constraints, I believe - they opted to cut that out, and we were left with a Guile being simple a wandering magician. It is not inconceivable, however, to my mind, that if CB is ever made, they will come back and prove that Guile and Janus were one in the same - they just didn't have the chance in CC. There is, after all, nothing that disproves them being so. And we must all remember the elusive shadow on the ground if you take along Guile to Viper Manor when Luccia gives Kid the letter...
Anyway, it is true that Serge was part of a project, but it was of a different sort - he was the trigger to initiate project Kid or, rather, allow it to be. You see, the whole idea of the project was that Belthesar, perhaps seeing Schala still as his princess, and thus owing oaths of fealty to her, attempted by very complex means to effect her rescue: this was project Kid. Schala herself aided in it in the creating of Kid; Serge did so by splitting the dimensions, and through that forging the requisite Chrono Cross, the only means by which she could be saved.
As for Serge being something similar to Kid... well, it is very plain that he is indeed the son of Wazuki, and no fatherless clone, as is Kid.
Really, one must look at how much the possible differences outweigh the similarities, and then take into account what the gamemakers intended. Serge shares almost nothing with Janus. Their moods are different. Their builds are different. Their hair is even different, in all likelihood (well, Janus' is light blue, and Serge's dark blue; it is possible, as they likely both dye it - Janus does so for a certainty, according to the game - that their natural hair colour is both black, but that's speculation.) And, if truth be told, Serge, in build and style of fighting and all, is most similar to Crono. Do they not both share Luminaire and slash-type attacks, and bear an innate colour of white and heavenly sorcery? And as for maintaining that he must be Janus because she would not care for a stranger otherwise.. Schala was ever-compassionate, that much is plain even in Zeal. She was likely only moved to pity by his cries that echoed to the Tesseract, sort of a strange love-at-first-sight.
As for your first comment regarding Schala saying they might not know each other... that's just bringing in reincarnation, and a shlocky thing that the player might be the reincarnation of Serge into the whole thing. Remember the end video where Serge is searching through the dimensions, even across the modern world, our world, for Serge? That's all it is, and really has no connection to Janus whatsoever.

Zaperking

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2005, 10:23:10 am »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages
Remember the end video where Serge is searching through the dimensions, even across the modern world, our world, for Serge? That's all it is, and really has no connection to Janus whatsoever.


WTF? Don't you mean Kid searching for Serge?

I myself had thought of this once I first played through CC.

So here are my views:
1) Time Bastard is still only a theory since there is no confermation of it being true. Though I must admit that GL is a genius :)
2) People have reason to believe that Marle's pendant is Schala's from the original timeline. Schala's pendant did run out the second time, so it probably did the first time too.
3) Serge, if he was Janus, could be a reincarnate of the original time lines Janus/Magus once he was (probably) destroyed once he summoned Lavos in 600AD. This would be nice because Janus never got to grow up in a good surrounding. So in this reincarnate, he is the person who he could never be. Happy, Habe blue hair instead of blonde (i suppose) etc. It's like Buu in DBZ. He gets reincarnated is Uub, a totally different person, different in character but still keeps his great power, but opposite to his destructive side. This could be why Serge has white innate and not black.

And another thing. Isn't Janus the Roman God of like past and future? And had two heads? Like when one door closes, another one opens. This colour resemble Janus' life. If he was reincarnated, thats like another door opening once the other one had closed.

But then again, Janus is Jaki in th Japanese version meaning "Dark energy"... But in the Japanese version of CC, did Lucca refer to Janus as "Jaki" in the letter? That would sound really screwed when shes trying to make the letter seem warm, by having "Dark energy" written all over the letter. Lol.

Now on the side notes:

Belthasar did seem pretty helpful to Serge? What a perfect oppertunity it would be for Janus reincarnate to help out his sister :P

Also, when you do the Ozzie,Flea and Slash sidequest, does Ozzie say anything about Serge? I need to do that part :P
Enough rambling now ^.^;

Sentenal

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Serge = Janus Theory
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2005, 12:38:05 pm »
heh, the Time Bastard Theory is just a theory, but it a very well though out one.

In CT, people in Zeal at first mistake Marle's pendant for Schala's, but when they look harder, the acknowledge its different.  Plus, Marle's pendant never did the thing's that Schala's pendant did for Kid.

Serge cannot be Janus reincaranted because of their innate color.  Serge is white.  Janus would be Black.