Author Topic: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence? [25000]  (Read 12810 times)

FaustWolf

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I've been digging around in all things Xeno over the past couple days (I have these crazes every once in awhile, you see) and caught this in an old GameFAQs/Gamespot forum argument:

Quote from: W_Mark_Felt_Sr
The legend goes that after Chrono Trigger was finished, most of the team got together to make their next game, and their first idea was Chrono Trigger 2. But they quickly moved away from that idea and eventually they ended up doing "Project Noah" which evolved into Xenogears.

It's not a legend. GameSpot has in their possession a freaking promo reel that SHOWS footage of "Chrono Trigger 2", before the game was turned into Xenogears. I'd kill to see this video myself...

Quote from: Druff
For the record, Gamespot does not have the 1996 CT2 footage in their possesion. That piece you copied and pasted was written by Andrew Vestal, who very briefly freelanced for Gamespot circa 1999-2000. But his real claim to fame was that he created square.net aka "The Unofficial Squaresoft Homepage" circa 1995, and he was arguably the most dedicated and knowlegable Square fan outside of Japan...When he lost his ISP, Square actually hosted his site for him for months. He eventually sold it and it became rpgamer.com, and then he founded the GIA. He unveiled FFIX concept art in early 1999, almost a year before it was officially announced...even though I've never seen this CT2 footage, and I've never met anyone else who's seen it, I believe it exists. I'd kill to see it too.

W_Mark_Felt had apparently dropped this link earlier in the pertinent thread:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/chronocross/news.html?sid=2451154

The interesting bit is this:
Quote from: Andrew Vestal
An old promo reel of Square's from mid-1996 contained footage of a "Chrono Trigger 2"; while much of that technologies appear to have gone into Xenogears, it's clear that Square has kept the franchise in mind.

This is the first I've ever heard of such a demo reel, and that would be a fantastic thing to behold. Mid 1996 would probably put it in the vicinity of early Xenogears development alright. It certainly would have been interesting to see Chrono Cross done in the Xenogears game engine! Anyone ever heard anything about this demo reel before?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:52:39 pm by ZeaLitY »

utunnels

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 01:01:05 am »
Interesting.
Never heard about that. But if a "thing" ever existed on the internet, it is hard to believe no one has seen it...

FaustWolf

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 01:09:47 am »
I would have dismissed the possibility immediately but an Alpha preview of Chrono Trigger did surface after a huge number of years in hiding. What a motherload this supposed demo reel would be! I'll have to look up Andrew Vestal. Didn't he work for EGM awhile back, or am I completely mistaken?

ZeaLitY

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 01:19:29 am »
I believe there's a Sakaguchi interview from 1997 in which he says Chrono Trigger 2 is not being made, if it ever will be made. Even if it's just a corporate distraction, it's more solid than this rumor.

Chrono'99

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 08:25:04 am »
Interesting... There has always been rumours that Xenogears was "meant" to be Chrono Trigger 2 due to plot similarities. These are just rumours, but yeah, the CT Alpha preview didn't surface until 2007, so who knows? If Sakaguchi said CT2 was not being made in 1997, that could mean it became Xenogears before that date.

FaustWolf

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 07:55:04 pm »
Dude, blast from the past time! Head on over to the GameFAQs Xenogears forum, where a user named wababuhloowap has posted some correspondence with Andrew Vestal about this. Vestal's reply:

Quote
Hey Mike,

Sorry to take a while to get back to you. Since you took the time to track me down across the ages I figured that giving you as thorough an answer is the least I could do.

I do not have the promo reel in my possession - I heard about the contents from a developer who was working at Square during this time period.

However, it is definitely not just speculation, and Square has gone on the record as identifying a connection between the two games in the Chrono Cross Ultimania.

From the Japanese Wikipedia article on Chrono Cross:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8E%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B9#.E3.80.8E.E3.82.AF.E3.83.AD.E3.83.8E.E3.83.BB.E3.83.88.E3.83.AA.E3.82.AC.E3.83.BC2.E3.80.8F.E3.81.A8.E3.80.8E.E3.82.BC.E3.83.8E.E3.82.AE.E3.82.A2.E3.82.B9.E3.80.8F

『クロノ・トリガー2』と『ゼノギアス』 [編集]

『ゼノギアス』はもともと『クロノ・トリガー2』という企画から 足しており、『ゼノギアス』制作後にチームが再編成して、改めて『クロノ・トリガー』の続編を作るべ 足したのが『クロノ・クロス』の制作チームで り、スタッフの重複も多い。そのため本作には『ゼノギアス』との類似点が多々存在し、戦闘システムなども『ゼノギアス』のものを 展させた形となっている。

また、『ゼノギアス』のデモムービーで使われていた、

さ 、愛に血を流させてやろう!地獄の海のように、紅 ……深 ……!

という台詞も、『ゼノギアス』本編ではな 、後の『クロノ・クロス』本編で使われている。

この他、前作の登場人物で るルッカも『ゼノギアス』にゲスト出演し、( までもおまけ的な台詞では るが)シルバードなどについて言及している。

Extremely quick and dirty translation...

"Chrono Trigger 2" and "Xenogears"

Xenogears originally began its planning and development as Chrono Trigger 2; after Xenogears was done being created the team regathered to make a sequel to Chrono Trigger, and the Chrono Cross team had a lot of the same staff as Xenogears. As a result, the game has many similarities, and the style of battle system is a sort of evolution of that in Xenogears.

Also, in the demo movie of Xenogears this line is used,

"So let love's blood flow! Like the seas of hell, it runs red and deep...!"*

This line does not appear in Xenogears' script, but was later used in Chrono Cross' script.

Furthermore, Lucca, a character from a previous game, appears in Xenogears as a guest, whose last bonus line makes a reference to the Silvard** and such.

*Perhaps translated as Lynx's line "Love is deeper and darker than the black seas of hell."
**The Epoch.

So, there you have it. :) It was actually fun to get back in touch with Ike again and track down the answer "once and for all." I am also glad that history has proven us both correct. Xenogears began development as CT2; when Xenogears was finished, much of the same staff still wanted to make a sequel to Chrono Trigger, and they made Chrono Cross.

Glad to help you finally put this mystery to rest. :)

Best,
Andrew

Nexus

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 11:15:55 pm »
Ah what could have been... Though I can't say I'm disappointed with Xenogears and Chrono Cross myself. Though I still would have loved to see how Chrono Trigger 2 would have turned out.

Lord J Esq

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 07:13:40 am »
Fascinating! I'm glad to see that the Chrono family tree branched out with the Xenosaga. It certainly accounts for some of the musical similarities between Mitsuda's CT and XG scores.

ZeaLitY

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 09:28:57 pm »
Our next step is to see if the relevant assertion in the Japanese Cross Wikipedia article is sourced. I'll ask Glitter, I guess. Moving this to the Great To-Do List.

Edit: No references or sources for that part of the Cross article. Our next task is to verify that this line:

さあ、愛に血を流させてやろう!地獄の海のように、紅く深く!

Appears in a Xenogears trailer. I suppose we need to round up the Japanese trailers for Xenogears. I still need to focus on updating the Compendium, so let's make verification of this line a 1000 point bounty.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 09:38:46 pm by ZeaLitY »

FaustWolf

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 09:59:49 pm »
Oooh, that's interesting. I haven't checked what the line means yet, but copying and pasting it directly into Google is turning up all sorts of results. (Ugh, it appears to be Xeno-related but is loading far too slowly for me when I try it again)

Kato did at least some or all of the script writing for Xenogears IIRC, so it'll be really fascinating to see how this turns out.

EDIT: Oh, is it the Japanese equivalent of the "Let love bleed" line from Chrono Cross?

EDIT AGAIN: The site I tried to link to above translates roughly as:
Quote
Japanese to English translation
Long ago. The emigrant ship to sail across a huge star, and suddenly, Case of abnormality in the system. Continuously monitor the warning tells only a moment, flickering shadows. Soon to resist, the system will take control of someone. Who was shot down ruthlessly overboard and striving to be first to escape the ship itself was a laser cannon. The captain, decided that the only sink the ship anymore. Activate the suicide system. The sparkle flash, the ship slowly sank to the stars. Then, after a thousand years ....

 

Remote villages, "Rahan" is the memory lost youth, "Fay" is lived. One day the count of three years of life in the village, it is his best friend, "Timothy" was the day before our wedding. Mystery suddenly landed in the village of "gear." The invasion force was Kisurebu military gear gear step, the Rahan village was engulfed in flames. In the clamor of the people fleeing, Faye talks to a mysterious gear.

 

"Now, we'll shed blood red like the sea of love ... hell, deep ..." (this is the line in question)
 

Faye is drawn to the mysterious boarding gear. Vainly fight back, but Timothy had fallen in Kisurebu 凶弾. Dazed and Faye. Tsunori helpless resentment of his distant consciousness. To absorb the anger of his gear to emit light aircraft .... Faye lost consciousness momentarily, the emission reaches the critical white wrap the village. And everything was destroyed. Faye was waiting regained consciousness, and angry words of the surviving villagers had someone shoot that's strange. To be pursued, leaving Faye Rahan village. But the tragedy is repeated over a thousand years, too, but was only the beginning.


It looks like a description of an early section of Xenogears, so it's plausible that it could have appeared in a demo. I don't remember a line quite like this in the English version of the game, so we'll have to track down the Japanese demo and screenshot this puppy. I'll bet the Xeno-sages over at the GameFAQs board might know more about it too, since a few people there seem to eat and breathe Xenogears.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 10:09:44 pm by FaustWolf »

ZeaLitY

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 10:11:31 pm »
Glitter reread that portion and yeah, it's definitely "demo movie", so we can limit our search to Japanese promov ideos for Xenogears for now.

FaustWolf

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 10:19:50 pm »
When searching the Japanese phrase, I happened across a conversation at the GameFAQs Xenogears board that mentioned it; the user wababuhloowap even posted an email response from Andrew Vestal about it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/199365-/55886051

Mostly stuff we've already seen, but wanted to post it just in case there was anything new there.  Andrew Vestal mentioned something about the topic appearing in Chrono Cross Ultimania?
 
But yeah, I'll see if I can track down any info about the Japanese demo(s) for the game, unless another Xeno fan beats me to it. I'm really curious about how this line might have been used in Xenogears now. Not that I want to speculate too much, but if the line is attributed to Fei (the main character), he had a split identity that might parallel Serge/Dark Serge -- it's a bit of a stretch, but still fascinating to me.

ZeaLitY

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 12:17:01 am »
User Page

Glitter's left a message for the Japanese user who added that to Wikipedia. She tried to dig up Square's old demo movies and trailers for Xenogears, but not much luck for now.

I'll go through Ultimania's secrets section and see if there's a screenshot of Xenogears or something. Might help us narrow it down.

Edit: Issued the challenge: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/199365-xenogears/58022221
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 12:46:01 am by ZeaLitY »

ZeaLitY

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 10:55:55 pm »
Quote
Yuriev
Posted 2/4/2011 5:29:18 AM
message detail
   
So what's with the DVD booklet thing; it's printed somewhere in the booklet?

Sorry, my original reply was deleted.

There is a video of the Monolithsoft conference from summer 2001 where the developers talk about Xenogears and Xenosaga on the DVD. They mention that Xenogears was at one point considered to be part of the Chrono Trigger series.

FaustWolf

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Re: 1996 Chrono Trigger 2 demo video "supposedly" in existence?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2011, 11:37:14 pm »
I just saw your thread at GameFAQs today ZeaLitY. I think we might have some luck getting more info by approaching Abel from http://www.xenotensei.com/ about this; he has an account here because he scanned in some Ultimania stuff awhile back, but he probably hasn't checked in here in awhile.

...aaaand, they appear to be down at the moment. But I think I've actually seen the sleeve case, thingie, for this particular DVD somewhere in my travels. I'll see if I can find it again.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 11:40:25 pm by FaustWolf »