Author Topic: Activation of the very first gate  (Read 6579 times)

stenir

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2009, 12:23:04 pm »
I agree that complexity need not be included, but all of your responses are complex in my opinion to my "a shard broke off and Lucca used that" theory.

Thought

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2009, 01:02:14 pm »
Except the other responses are based on things that are indicated in game. There is no hint, not a wiff, of a shard breaking off of the Pendant, or the gate key being anything but something that might as reasonably exist in 1000AD as Gato.

While admittedly somewhat complex, those suppositions borrow from what is known in game. Your's creates something relatively new.

chrono eric

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2009, 02:50:29 pm »
Right, the idea is not to create a theory that is "as simple as possible" but to create a theory that is "as simple as possible in light of the given evidence". If one idea is more complex than another, but it is supported by in-game evidence whereas the other is not, then that idea should be favored.

ZealKnight

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2009, 05:50:44 pm »
Wait? Are you saying that is was just the machine that malfunctioned? It has to do with the Dream Stone we know that much.  I highly doubt it's an electrical malfunction, which i originally thought that was just an example of it being the machine. Maybe it caused a malfunction to the machine that she was able to use, but come on it just being something like high amounts of electricity is just being stupid.

Zephira

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2009, 06:00:57 pm »
How is it stupid? Electricity, being one of the elements, is a form of 'magic' that can be reproduced and harnessed through machines. Think of Crono's Lightning spell like a taser, but instead of batteries, he fuels it with magic (Mana? Life force?).
The definition of malfunction, according to dictionary.com:   
 1. Failure to function.
 2. Faulty or abnormal functioning.
So yes, the Telepod did malfunction, by functioning abnormally. Think of the pendant as an amplifier. It amplified the electricity (fake magic) in the Telepod. So when they tried to warp Marle, it reopened the hole in space-time (gate) that Janus first came through, instead of just warping Marle from point A to point B.

ZealKnight

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2009, 09:27:07 pm »
Electricity isn't one of the four element, light is.

Zephira

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2009, 11:51:29 pm »
True, but most Light spells are lightning or electricity based. And you still have not answered my question. How is the electricity hypothesis stupid?

chrono eric

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2009, 12:32:49 am »
Damn, hostile much Zealknight? We're all friends here. I brought up the possibility of an electrical malfunction because the machine clearly utilizes electricity somehow, and huge sparks of electricity can be seen jumping between the two Telepods while it malfunctions if I remember correctly. Here is what Lucca says:

Quote
Lucca: The way she disappeared...
   It couldn't have been the Telepod!

   The warp field seemed to be
   affected by her pendant...

So, Lucca realized that 1) The Telepod malfunctioned, and 2) The "warp field" that the Telepod apparently uses to transport people was affected by her pendant. This scene was preceded by sparks that jumped between the two Telepods and as one giant spark jumps between them the Gate appears immediately afterwards. You can see it here at about 3:30 ish-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Nf_WNYcPs&feature=related

Please pay no attention to the nerdy douchebag that is narrating every fucking line of dialog while pronouncing Crono as Craw-no which is absolutely grating to my ears. He even says "Craw-no" Trigger at one point. Learn to speak fucktard. /rant

Crono jumps on the other Telepod all gungho-like around 5:00 minutes or so and this time there is an even more exaggerated and dragged out sequence of electricity jumping between the Telepods with the Gate opening thereafter.

So, either the electricity is a) an unimportant side-effect of the Telepod malfunctioning that has no relevance to the Gate appearing immediately afterwards or b) it is very important. Lucca mentions that the pendant somehow alters the machines "warp field", but it is worth noting that this doesn't mean that the pendant is the only way to alter the warp field and open the Gate. This also doesn't mean that the "warp field" was even the most important part of the machine malfunctioning. Perhaps the warp field caused the electricity, which caused the Gate to open.

Zephira

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2009, 12:47:29 am »
The warp field was already disturbed when Lavos opened the first gate there. Again, already disturbed space. Throw in a machine that screws with a warp field, throw in something that can amplify that power, and you have trouble (or another gate).
Also, this:
Quote
Lucca: Power to full!
TABAN: Roger!
Lucca: More! Give me more power!
Lucca: There! We did it!
So, they're definitely using more electricity or power than they normally would. Also shown by the sparks arcing between the pods.

Still waiting for an answer to that "stupid" question.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 01:16:36 am by Zephira »

chrono eric

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2009, 01:08:31 am »
That is assuming that the field that Lucca was talking about is the same type of field effected by a Gate. But it makes sense though - if time and space are equivalent in the Chronoverse than altering a spacetime field seems to be a logical way of transporting someone through both space and time. Perhaps the Telepod can even be viewed as a type of time machine. You leave existence for a couple of seconds and reappear at a different point in space (and thus time).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 01:10:46 am by chrono eric »

FouCapitan

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 04:37:31 am »
Please pay no attention to the nerdy douchebag that is narrating every fucking line of dialog while pronouncing Crono as Craw-no which is absolutely grating to my ears. He even says "Craw-no" Trigger at one point. Learn to speak fucktard. /rant
I actually shared that rant until I learned that "Crah-no" was really the correct way to say it.  Chronology and so forth are pronounced as such according to dictionary.reference.com

However, common American dialect has it pronounced a "kro-nology", and even the Japanese katakana writes it as "Ku-ro-no" so the correct pronounciation is an argument nobody can win.

Edit:  One thing I never did quite understand is why the normal amount of power opened the gate when Marle was sent through, then a greater amount of power through the telepod was needed before the same effect happened for Crono.

My only conclusion relates to Lucca's statement that "Gates are unstable" and perhaps a simple roll of the dice chance made the openening for Marle occur with less effort.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 04:40:23 am by FouCapitan »

Zephira

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2009, 05:42:41 am »
Going in a completely different/overly complicated direction here: If that is Schala's pendant, perhaps it still held some charge from the Mammon Machine. Lavos opened the gate the first time, so Lavos energy in pendant would open it again. When Crono picked the pendant up, it was more drained, so they required more energy from the Telepod. This second use drained the pendant completely, so they weren't able to use it for Zealian sealed doors/chests.
Of course, this doesn't explain the Telepod's involvement, or why the Gate Key could work. Still in favor of the electricity hypothesis.

stenir

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2009, 10:54:45 am »
Do we take CT:DS as the "correct" translation now that it's out, or do we use both CT:DS and the original to draw from?

Here's one statement Lucca makes right before they send Crono back:

Quote from: Lucca
Well, it's worth a shot!
That pendant seems to be the key, so hang on
to it, Crono - and brace yourself!

Seems very obvious the pendant was required for the telepod to "malfunction".
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 11:38:35 am by stenir »

chrono eric

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2009, 03:36:25 pm »
Seems very obvious the pendant was required for the telepod to "malfunction".

Oh no doubt, no one is debating that. What we are debating is whether or not the pendant or more specifically Dreamstone is required to open a Gate. I would say that the evidence is not in favor of that conclusion at all.

Zephira

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Re: Activation of the very first gate
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2009, 07:55:43 pm »
Unless Lucca had access to some amount of Dreamstone when she made the Gate Key. She certainly seemed to know her way around a Dreamstone when she and Melchior fixed the Masamune.