Author Topic: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...  (Read 6605 times)

FouCapitan

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The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« on: March 16, 2009, 03:52:01 am »
It's been bothering me for quite a while how many people believe the sparkle to be Crono's soul during his death scene, (Especially on the GameFAQs forums *shudder*)  so I've decided to set the record straight here as to why it is undoubtedly not.


The confusion was never an issue before those neat little anime cut scenes from the PSX version came into existence.  During the SNES/SFC days it was quite unanimously agreed to be the pendant.  Shiny little sprite rises up from his body, pendant is found by party member X later.  1 + 1 = 2, no arguments.

Then in the pretty new anime scene we see...  Strange glowing ball rises, Crono gets dusted, pendant is found by party member X later.  Suddenly we have ? + 1 = y...  I'll mention now that I fucking hate the individual who planned out that scene...

In my opinion, the animators made the item rising from his body correspond with the spritework on the screen without actually confirming what the sparkle was representing.  They see a sparkle rise, they animated a sparkle rising, no added details in that scene.

Now suddenly a large amount of people think it was Crono's soul, or some energy ball from Lavos, maybe a passing UFO that emerged from a dimensional rift in Crono's shirt, who knows.  It's horribly ambiguous.

One thing I can state for certain though, is that it is not his soul.  The reason is evident when the party gets Crono back.

In the time freeze where they switched his body with the Dopple Doll, the sparkle was still there above his body.  Thus, when they pulled him out, the sparkle stayed behind.  This makes the most sense if you presume it was the pendant, so it is still found on party member X's shoulder later and their own past remains unaltered. (Don't give me that TTI crap, paradox's can happen to time travellers, otherwise there would be no damn point in using the doll in the first place!)

Now if they pulled back Crono and it was his soul represented by the sparkle it would still remain in the past to be destroyed.  Now I know he doesn't talk much, but I'm pretty sure Crono, post time-egg, had his soul still intact.


In a nutshell,
Sparkle rising from Crono during death scene = Soul = WRONG!

teaflower

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 10:54:51 am »
... then what could it be?

It makes sense that in the SNES version that it would be the pendant. Shiny thing that reacts to Lavos's energy (as shown by Schals and Marle several times) glowing in front of Lavos, held by Crono... makes perfect sense. But now what? In the anime scene, Crono's looking at this ball of pure sparkle like it's completely foreign and then he dies a horrible death. You clearly see that there are no pendant like qualities to this object, and it can't be his soul because when he gets pulled out of there, his soul is still in there. How else would he be able to say, "Magus, get your blue butt in the party, NOW."?

Sparkly ball of pretty = x, but x = ?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 11:37:25 am »
I have always thought it to be the pendant. What else could it be?

Crono has it, and after the whole scene another party member does, since he gets vaporized, how did the pendant survived? By him loosing it before of course, which would be what the sparkle represents.

To me, it's the pendant, despite what the animated scene shows.

Thought

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 01:01:36 pm »
Nice, oh FouCaptain, my Captain. Though... I hadn't realized this was a problem. It seems so clear (and even more so for the reasons you've stated).

Teaflower, I am curious; if your wallet suddenly lifted out of your pocket, hovered in front of your face all sparkly like, would you look at it is like it was your wallet or like it is a totally foreign object?


... Though, WHY does the pendant leave Crono? Is it a semi-concious object (per the Pendant and the Telepod thread) that, like a rat, it abandoning a doomed ship?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 01:23:10 pm »
As far as I know, the pendant houses Doreen, so it is conscious.

Thought

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 01:38:01 pm »
While heavily implied, it is never directly (or indirectly) stated that the pendant houses Doreen (to my knowledge).

Indeed, the pendant just seems to move around with no real in-game explanation.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:40:10 pm by Thought »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 02:45:29 pm »
Well, since Doreen follows the same rule as Masa and Mune then she must be present in an object. And in her sudden appearance in Cross, what object could she have come from?

Thought

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 03:32:59 pm »
Who ever said that Masa and Mune have to exist within an object? Certainly, they can exist within one, but have to?

Though I do agree that the pendant is most likely the home of Doreen; it makes a lot of sense. But I was just pointing out that it hasn't been confirmed definitively.

FouCapitan

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 03:35:57 pm »
Doreen in the pendant was something that never crossed my mind, but makes perfect sense.  Perhaps dream creatures naturally form within dreamstone over time.  Perhaps Masa and Mune aren't creations of Melchior per se, but rather refer to him as such since they housed the sword he tempered.  Perhaps the consciousness within the pendant is not Doreen, but an unnamed dream creature.

This leads into a subject all its own.

In the anime scene, Crono's looking at this ball of pure sparkle like it's completely foreign and then he dies a horrible death. You clearly see that there are no pendant like qualities to this object

Like I said earlier, I have a strong suspicion that the animators took the scene as it was shown to them as sprites, and elaborated it with having just a literal sparkle rise from Crono without confirming with the rest of the team what it was supposed to represent in the original scene.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:40:33 pm by FouCapitan »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 03:49:58 pm »
Who ever said that Masa and Mune have to exist within an object? Certainly, they can exist within one, but have to?

And how did that came from? I never stated that, only that the sword is to them what the pendant could be to Doreen.

Doreen in the pendant was something that never crossed my mind, but makes perfect sense.  Perhaps dream creatures naturally form within dreamstone over time.  Perhaps Masa and Mune aren't creations of Melchior per se, but rather refer to him as such since they housed the sword he tempered.  Perhaps the consciousness within the pendant is not Doreen, but an unnamed dream creature.

This leads into a subject all its own.

Actually, one of them says that they were created by him.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:55:41 pm by Acacia Sgt »

Xenterex

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 03:53:18 pm »
Though it hasn't been confirmed that Doreen is in the pendant per se, does Serge have the pendant in his proximity/possession for when Doreen fuses with the Masamune to become the Mastermune?  I would certainly hope she just doesn't appear from whatever on a whim and be all "Move over guys, this sword is becoming a coed party now!" >.>

Quote
In the anime scene, Crono's looking at this ball of pure sparkle like it's completely foreign and then he dies a horrible death.

I think Crono's look at the sparkle is more of a "why" than a "what".  But I also don't really care much for that animated scene anyway as I think it detracted from the sprite scene, rather than compliment, or even expound upon.  But i certainly do agree that the sparkle there is the pendant rather some other aspect of Crono's life/existence.

idioticidioms

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 05:39:32 pm »
Actually, a different theory that could arise from this is that since the pendant derives it's energy from the Mammon Machine and since the Mammon Machine derives it's energy from Lavos, that the Pendant is infused with lavos' energy, which we all know to be self-preserving. Lavos' Energy gave the Mammon Machine the power to fight back with it's energy, so it's very possible that at the point that Lavos destroys Crono, that the Lavos energy in the Pendant reacts and removes itself from Crono's body so as to survive. This would explain the shining aura around it in both the old version and the new.

And, when something shines like that, it is hard to make out what is at the center of the shine. Honestly, if something I had been wearing around my neck as a necklace suddenly rose up into the air, glowing, I would be pretty amazed at it and prone to stare in wonder.

FouCapitan

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 05:58:41 pm »
Honestly, that whole scene just bugged me to no end, and seemed to completely diverge from what we see in the original game.  Let's compare.

Original game - Crono rises from the ground, approaches Lavos and readies his sword.

Anime - Badly beaten Crono stands against Lavos, sword at the ready.  (Okay, so far so good)

[Insert Zeal's speech here]

Original game - Lavos fires his breath beam as Crono raises his arms and lightning starts surrounding him.

Anime - Lavos inhales, and Crono gets the dumbest look on his face that any Toriyama character has ever preformed.  Bright flash with a well placed "no fucking shit" repeat of Janus' quote.  Crono drops sword, gets surrounded by electricity and starts having an epileptic seizure.  (Okay, what the fuck, that's not what it looked like in the game.  I always thought the lightning was Crono trying to attack, that is his element after all, and not an effect of Lavos' breath.)

Finally we get to the moment of demise.

Original game - Sparkle rises from Crono, assumed to be pendant.  Beam intensifies as the scenery goes white and we see Crono's body fly back into dust.

Anime - Sparkle rises from Crono, who gives the next dumbest look on his face ever as he stares at it, then he explodes into fairy dust.  (Okay, Toei I officially lost a bit of respect for you guys now.)

mav

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 08:55:58 pm »
Interesting, interesting. Well, we all agree that the FMV is likely to be inaccurate, so let's just take a look at the SNES scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snZM2FE5pjo
At around 1:59, Magus has that same lightning surrounding him as he's attacked. In the video Zeal also notes that Crono looks battered, but does that have any holding on his attack on Lavos? Around 2:55, it looks like he's attempting Luminaire despite being electrified, or whatever the hell is happening, and after all that the screen flashes red and some sound effect occurs (so who's being attacked, Lavos or Crono), the sparkle comes off his body, and he's disintegrated.

Oh and in the scene that follows, you see the sparkle land on the ground...so I gotta say that in my opinion, the SNES scene confirms that the sparkle is the pendant. The FMV is just confusing...

utunnels

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Re: The Sparkle in Crono's Death Scene...
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 09:17:42 pm »
At around 1:59, Magus has that same lightning surrounding him as he's attacked.