Author Topic: The "Chrono Trigger"  (Read 2987 times)

Dain

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: April 06, 2005, 09:02:55 pm »
I'm not sure if this has been brought up in any of the forums, or if my question has more to do with semantics than any real difference, but here it is:

In both Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, there is something referred to as the "Chrono Trigger".   The use of the has always led me to assume that the Trigger from CT and the Trigger from CC were in fact the same thing.  But in CT the Trigger is an object that allows you to bring Crono back;  in CC the Trigger is a person, namely Serge ("the servant" in Russian, which may mean something more).  
Are these Triggers in fact the same thing?  If they are, then Serge somehow had a hand in saving Chrono as well as Schala--it may actually be that Crono went to the same Tesseract as Schala if we look at it that way.  Although I suppose it could be that any device that is able to retrieve a person from the darkness of time is called the Chrono Trigger, although they are not in fact the same object.

Any thoughts?

GreenGannon

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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 09:53:48 pm »
I believe that a Chrono Trigger is any device that has the power to affect time more vastly than just traveling through it.

Zaperking

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 11:21:15 pm »
1) I am Russian and Serge does not have any meaning. Well unless I go read a book of description of Russian names. It's more sterotyped as a slave's name, just like Igor is to Frankenstien.

2) I think the Chrono Trigger was used in 2 ways. In Chrono Trigger it was another name for the Time Egg, Gaspar said that you could prehaps even call it that. In CC, Serge is called by Lynx "The Assasin of Time! THE CHRONO TRIGGER!"
My assumption on this is that a Chrono Trigger in CC is anyone or anything that can cause a rift or change in time. Even a Catalyst for changing things. Like for instance:
If Serge died in both worlds, Schala would never have been saved and the Time Devourer would have one day been fully created.
If Serge chose to not save Schala the same thing would occour.
If Serge follows the "Project Kid" plan, then he will destroy the Time Devourer, but he most likely needs to save Schala, since thats the whole point of "Project Kid".

So I think the Chrono Trigger is basically anything that has and can make big differences with good/devistating consiquences. For instance it can save Chrono. But if used wrongly, people could go back in time and do bad stuff. And I'm reffering to the Time Egg here.

Serge as being a Chrono Trigger represents that his actions will make big differences.... Changing Time and Space..

Sentenal

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 11:41:41 pm »
Serge's existance makes him a Chrono Trigger, something that changed time from what was supposed to be.

Daniel Krispin

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2005, 12:38:42 am »
Essentially, 'Chrono Trigger' is no thing, and no person. It is an idea and concept. It is a descriptive noun, with trigger being the main noun, and Chrono being the adjective describing which sort of trigger it is. Chrono is, let me check the lexicon to be double sure... XPONOS (forgive me for the last symbol; it should be a sigma, but it appears the ASCII symbols aren't giving me most of the Greek.) Anyway, it's Greek which, according to the lexicon I have, is the word for time. But I think we all knew that it meant time, already.
Now, that aside, the point that must be stressed is that this term can be technically applied as a descriptive noun to anything that causes a sudden change in time, by nature of the meaning of the name. Crono is a Chrono Trigger, as is Serge, as is the pendant, etc. However, in the context of the game, only certain elements of paramount importance are given the title. The first is the well known Time Egg (or, rather, first Time Egg; there are at least two and a half of these things floating about the various worlds.) It triggers an effect in time (in the case of the first one, an absolute halt that even the most powerful of people thought impossible, and in the case of the second a means by which to traverse dimensions.) Thus the effects are many and varied and, in my opinion, are dictated by the whim of fate and need, rather than any set function. Thus, generally speaking, these are 'true' 'Chrono Triggers.'
The second time the term is used is questionable. It is only once said to be Serge (and, in my opinion, is thrown in by the writers to give it an early connection to the first game, not out of any actual reason.) However, he, too, may indeed be seen as a thing that effects time enough to warrant such a title. It is his death that is used as the catalyst, the trigger, to split the worlds, allowing the forging of the Chrono Cross. He was the neccessary piece in causing such a unique effect in dividing dimensions and, looked at as a thing of function rather than a person, may be seen as triggering the desired effect in time.
Now, why aren't other things named this? Why is not the pendant, or the telepod, as they have a profound impact upon the flow of time, not named as such? Perhaps they can be, but the writers did not think so deeply on the matter. Another explanation might be that neither effects time directly, or not in a great manner. They serve as transportation, moving those who actually change time along in their journeys. Aside from the causing of something to exist in a time when it should not be, they do not actually change the flow of time, any more than a connection between two roads affects the traffic upon either: it is the cars that merge from one into the other that truly change this. It might be debateable that the earliest affector might be seen as the true 'trigger', and thus the telepod and the like, but more than this I cannot figure through. Using this rationale Serge would also be a Chrono Trigger... but so would all Seven in the first game.
Yet, perhaps the description needs to be more specific: that which actually changes the flow itself. Crono and the company are like those that throw sticks into a river, thus changing its end result. Time still goes from point A to B or, in the worst of scenarios, from A to C in a single line. The Time Eggs, however, actually stop the flow, changing the inherent nature of the 'river'. No longer is it a moving entity going from one point to another. It has ceased moving. The same is true for Serge. He splits it into two, changing the basic premise of a single continuing line. Thus a 'Chrono Trigger' might be seen as that which changes the established defenition of time. This, I might add, is exactly what the last person said in their post... I have merely elaborated on the subject and put it into less concise words, so to speak, and tied it together with the Time Eggs.

Dain

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2005, 02:30:45 am »
Well, I do know the definitions of both "Chrono" and "Trigger", and thus the meaning of the compound word "Chrono Trigger"...but that really wasn't my point in posting this thought.  True, anything in the game could be called a Chrono Trigger...such as Crono's mop weapon, which could be used to defeat Lavos and thus change time.  But what I was trying to get at was that each game has only one Chrono Trigger, and each is called the Chrono Trigger, as if each one were exclusive.  Plus, the drama with which Serge was called the Chrono Trigger can't help but make you wonder if there is a much deeper meaning than just a thing that is "able to change events in time".

I did notice that both Triggers are responsible for saving (or resurrecting) a life that had gone to the purgatory that is the Tesseract (I am assuming that is where Chrono went after being killed by Lavos, It's just the impression I got after playing Trigger again after I had played Cross).  
Also,  the triggers are the products of the work of the Gurus.  In CT it was Gaspar that procured the Trigger, and in CC it was Balthasar--albeit indirectly.

With all this, I just can't think that the term was thrown down arbitrarily.

Daniel Krispin

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2005, 03:42:27 am »
Quote from: Dain
 Plus, the drama with which Serge was called the Chrono Trigger can't help but make you wonder if there is a much deeper meaning than just a thing that is "able to change events in time".

But did I not say that? I maintained that it was not the changing of events in time, but changing the established nature of time, such as freezing it or splitting it, that made it a Chrono Trigger. A time traveller is like a sailor up and down a river of time, but he who is a Chrono Trigger shall command the waters to do his will.

Zaperking

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 10:42:26 am »
Quote from: Dain
Well, I do know the definitions of both "Chrono" and "Trigger", and thus the meaning of the compound word "Chrono Trigger"...but that really wasn't my point in posting this thought.  True, anything in the game could be called a Chrono Trigger...such as Crono's mop weapon, which could be used to defeat Lavos and thus change time.  But what I was trying to get at was that each game has only one Chrono Trigger, and each is called the Chrono Trigger, as if each one were exclusive.  Plus, the drama with which Serge was called the Chrono Trigger can't help but make you wonder if there is a much deeper meaning than just a thing that is "able to change events in time".

I did notice that both Triggers are responsible for saving (or resurrecting) a life that had gone to the purgatory that is the Tesseract (I am assuming that is where Chrono went after being killed by Lavos, It's just the impression I got after playing Trigger again after I had played Cross).  
Also,  the triggers are the products of the work of the Gurus.  In CT it was Gaspar that procured the Trigger, and in CC it was Balthasar--albeit indirectly.

With all this, I just can't think that the term was thrown down arbitrarily.



1) Since when did Crono ever get sucked into the DBT.....
2) Lucca made a prototype time egg too, and it's in Kid's Astral Amulet...

Dain

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2005, 02:14:21 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking

1) Since when did Crono ever get sucked into the DBT.....
2) Lucca made a prototype time egg too, and it's in Kid's Astral Amulet...


At the bottom of my post I said that is where I assumed he went because of the circumstances, the party never took the body with them so it stayed in the same place as Schala when she went to the Tesseract.  But it really doesn't matter for the point I'm trying to make about the Trigger.
As to the Time Egg Lucca made, they never call it by the Chrono Trigger, but Lucca may have made it with the assistance of Balthasar.

Dain

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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 02:25:02 pm »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages

But did I not say that? I maintained that it was not the changing of events in time, but changing the established nature of time, such as freezing it or splitting it, that made it a Chrono Trigger. A time traveller is like a sailor up and down a river of time, but he who is a Chrono Trigger shall command the waters to do his will.


All I'm saying is that using that logic, more than just Serge and the CT Time Egg can be called a Trigger.  So why would the developers choose to call those two specific things by the same name, rather than something like the pendant, or the Time Egg from CC?

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 03:21:49 pm »
Quote from: Dain
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages

But did I not say that? I maintained that it was not the changing of events in time, but changing the established nature of time, such as freezing it or splitting it, that made it a Chrono Trigger. A time traveller is like a sailor up and down a river of time, but he who is a Chrono Trigger shall command the waters to do his will.


All I'm saying is that using that logic, more than just Serge and the CT Time Egg can be called a Trigger.  So why would the developers choose to call those two specific things by the same name, rather than something like the pendant, or the Time Egg from CC?

No, they could not all be. The pendant does not alter the nature of the flow itself. It may redirect it, as all temporal changes do, but very few things actually change the nature of time itself. As for why the other things, such as the second Time Egg, were not named as such... technically, it was a writer's oversight, in that they did not think so deeply on it. I'm sure of it. The 'Chrono Trigger' in the original game needed to be a single object, the title of the game. And they tossed it into the second one with a loose comparison. But these forums here often delve into these matters more deeply than was the original intent, so I do likewise with what I say.
The Time Egg, both of them, can be called Chrono Triggers. Why is the second one not called it? Because it doesn't need to be. The 'Chrono Trigger' is an archetype to anything that has a specific effect, but those items and such have other names, as well; 'Chrono Trigger' just happens to be an overreaching category that many things fall into. For example, you could make a category called 'takers of life', and into this would fall all manner of weapons, from swords to spears, slings, bows and crossbows and arbalests, pilumi and katanas and a thousand other things. It may be arbitrary to make up such a category but, in actuality, that is what Gaspar is doing when he names it a Chrono Trigger. He is not refering to any specific thing, he is referring to a concept (if it was a concept known of before, I don't know. Perhaps the idea of the existance of a 'Chrono Trigger' was the term for a scientific concept or theory in old Zeal, and he was just using it as it was apt.) Now, back to the example, as I said, all manner of weapons are the Takers of Life. But, as much as you could refer to them in such a manner, how often would you do so when speaking of them? More likely, you'd use their common name, rather than the general clas to which they belong. Thus while Serge different than the Time Egg as a dagger is seperate from a sling, both each fall into a set category. And likewise, even as one says 'sling' or 'dagger' first and foremost, most would likley say 'Time Egg' or 'Serge' rather than Chrono Trigger, and only say it as such in certain circumstances.
Another way of looking at it is this. Say a friend was slacking off in some manner. You might call him a 'lazy guy' or something to that effect. In naming him that you are bringing to mind an archetype of the sloth, and placing him, due to his actions, into that category, as he has filled the neccessary requirements. That is not to say he does not have a name or, indeed, that you can just say 'stop being lazy' without citing the universal concept of a lazy man. The same thing might be said for the Time Egg and Serge. The concept of a Chrono Trigger is known, perhaps philosophically or scientifically. When Gaspar looked upon his Time Egg he was citing this universal example, not because the Time Egg defined the thing, but because it belonged to this 'universal'. Likewise Lynx saw Serge as belonging to this extra-worldly concept.
You see where I have gone in this? Perhaps not. Without realizing it I've decended into the philisophical, and gone Platonic, speaking of 'universals' like this. I'm not quite up on knowing such philosophy, and I'd have to ask my father to be more clear on it, yet the idea of things belonging to preexisting archetypes, and drawing their meaning of existance from this, is certainly Platonic (ie. as opposed to Aristotilian.) But it is at least one explanation, and would mean that many things could be considered Time Eggs, but they needn't be explicitly named as such... it relies on the understanding and decision of the speaker what to name it. That, or my first comment holds true, and it is something that must have the specific effect of changing the nature of time.
(My apologies if I went to far in analyzing it, but is not the nature of the Compendium to look at things in such a scholarly/philisophical light?)

Dain

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The "Chrono Trigger"
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 07:16:13 pm »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages

(My apologies if I went to far in analyzing it, but is not the nature of the Compendium to look at things in such a scholarly/philisophical light?)


Quite all right, it's great to have such a discussion.  And my apologies if I am expecting an ocean where there is only a puddle.  
It may be that it is just a matter of semantics, like you said in your last post, it is merely a name given to something that can split/stop/etc time.  I agree that it could very well be used in that way.   That said...
The only thing that makes me think that it is signifigant that those two specific things are called Chrono Triggers is that they both have the function not only of splitting/stopping/ect time, but also of performing the resurrection of a single person (ie Crono or Schala).  No other thing can accomplish this feat.  Symbolically, each can be seen as a trancendental device that aids in resurrection.  And since there is a parallel with the myth of Christ, it is no mistake that these devices are given (or manipulated) by the gurus (ie Gaspar in CT and Balthasar in CC).  The Trigger would in this case be seen as Myrrh (which is used in cremation).
Looking at the three imperial regalia given to the emperor (similar to the three wise men myth), the Trigger corresponds with the jewel "Yasakani no magatama ", which corresponds to the virtue of benevolence.  In both games it makes sense that the benevolent object/person is the thing that resurrects.
This is the connection I am trying to look at more closely; the nature of the trigger in both games, and any connections (symbolic or metaphysical) they may have.

Daggart

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2005, 12:27:36 am »
The Time Egg in CC isn't the primary catylist in the game, Serge is. So in this instance, he's the true chronotrigger, as he is the one that triggers the events, not the time egg.

RadicalDreamerLiz

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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2005, 02:46:00 pm »
I think that the chrono trigger could be many things.It could be the item that brought Chrono back, but it could also be a person.What I'm basically saying is that the chrono trigger could come in different forms, even though it has the same purpose. In Chrono Trigger, the item was used to bring Chrono back, and in Chrono Cross the person (Serge) is, in a way, used to bring Schala back.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2005, 06:36:34 am »
Yeah, but does Lynx/FATE know that this is Serge's alleged 'purpose'?