Can Time Traveler Immunity be granted to Time Bastards?

[Thought]

Imagine, if you will, a world in which Crono & Co have defeated Lavos. Magus has traveled through time, therefore granting him Time Traveler Immunity.

Now suppose someone were to time travel to 599AD and convince the Magus there (a Time Bastard set to cease to exist in 600AD, when the original Magus was transported back to Zeal) to travel with him. Before 600AD, the two travel to some other time period; it doesn't matter which.

What happens to this Time Bastard Magus?

TB was created largely to solve the problem of individuals existing in a new timeline vs the conservation of mass/energy. So in order to preserve the matter/energy count of the universe, TB Magus would have to cease to exist the moment real Magus traveled to zeal, as real Magus's appearance in Zeal is protected by Time Traveler Immunity. However... TB Magus who left the Middle Ages in 599 should also have Time Traveler Immunity where ever he pops out.

Has the conservation of Matter/Energy thus been violated? Or in another year will TB Magus, even though his appearance in another time period is preserved, cease to exist as well?

[Acacia Sgt]

This type of case was applied before with Robo, where what would happen if you pick up the 600 AD version after getting him back in 1000 AD. And I think it was asked also with the Elemental Vests.

That Robo, in 400 years, will cease to exist no matter which time he is, since 400 years passed before time traveling again.

So yes, Magus would cease to exist one year after his time travel in 599 AD.

[Thought]

Well, slightly different focus, but you are right.

In a year, TB Magus would probably disappear (assuming TB is a valid theory). However, would his appearance in whatever time period he traveled to be preserved by TTI?

It is an interesting possibility. While creating an army of Robos wouldn't work in the long term, it would certainly work in the short term as long as each new Robo traveled through time on its own volition. That is, original Robo waits 400 years and is picked up by Crono and Co, but TB Robo waits 399 and takes the gate in Leene Square, and TBB Robo waits 398 year, takes the gate, etc. Which, of course, works on the assumption that Time Error doesn't progress apace normal time. Each Robo's a TB, and each would disappear in a year, but for that year one could amass an army, just so long as each TB Robo waits a little less time before traveling through a gate.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, it's a time travel, so TTI would make that Magus appear to when he traveled, even if he would get TB'ed later. It's the same thing applied to the Vests, they are going to cease to exist no matter how many time travels they are taken to.

[chrono eric]

Yes, this is pretty much what I explained in my Robo example. TB is preserved no matter what (unfortunately for Magus) and so is TTI. This is not problematic if you look at a timeline on a whole. Matter/energy is still conserved throughout the entire timeline, even if it appears to not be conserved in the short term. A side effect of this is that preserving TTI for Magus or Robo is not a problematic situation, but you could technically create and army of Maguses in the short term.

Eske and I have worked out some situations in which TB and TTI would not be preserved because it would violate conservation of mass/energy, and they can be found in this thread, although you have to wade through a lot of text. I may create a new thread for it in awhile just as I did with the Dimensional Traveller's Immunity thread so that people don't have to read through our massive discussion:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,6571.0.html

All of these situations in which TB and TTI probably would not be preserved involve the dimensional split and reunification of the split in Chrono Cross, and what would happen if a time traveller travelled from a moment before the split to a moment after. It creates huge conservation problems when the timeline is reunified. That is the only situation in which I could envision TB or TTI not being preserved, because it does such a good job keeping things on an even keel otherwise.

[FaustWolf]

According to the current version of Time Bastard in the Compendium encyc:

Duplicates of entities cannot be created through time travel because this would violate the conservation of energy in the universe. If a time travel scenario would cause a duplicate entity to exist, the entity with the least seniority of time traveller immunity would be sent to the DBT.

I'm wondering how an entity's "seniority" of TTI would be determined. Is there any way the Magus who time traveled in 599AD would actually send the Magus who traveled in 600AD to the DBT? In that case, seniority would be determined by the length of time the entity spent in normal spacetime before time traveling, and seniority would be inversely related to the amount of time spent in normal spacetime before time traveling.

However, for the opposite to be true (600AD Magus sets an expiration date on 599AD Magus), then seniority must be determined by "originality," meaning the entity who spent the longest amount of time in the original, unchanged timeline has the most seniority. Am I understanding that correctly, or did it even make sense? Haha.

[Thought]

I think you have it, Faust.

Curiously, CC gives us a way around TB. The Dragon Tear has been shown to change bodies and create them. If the only reason one gets sent to the TB is to conserve matter, one could use the Dragon Tear to get a new body and watch the old one be taken away. Heh, would particularly suck if you just changed bodies with someone (hmm... might Lynx have been a Time Bastard, needing to switch bodies with Serge just to keep exists, which is why after Serge gets a new body we never see lynx's old body again?)