Author Topic: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!  (Read 5591 times)

Acacia Sgt

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2009, 01:30:43 am »
No, we only know how it went thanks to the Elder.

utunnels

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2009, 01:39:01 am »
Strange, perhaps he's a goner already after the incident.
So the Melchior in 1000 A.D. is still the old version? It seems square did nothing to him.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2009, 01:54:58 am »
Yes, that Melchior is always the original. Actually, thanks to the Ocean Palace incident, will that make Janus and the Gurus the only ones who are still their original individuals, despite the many changes done to the time line?

Or am I forgetting someone else?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 02:01:46 am by Acacia Sgt »

utunnels

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2009, 02:11:22 am »
It seems that anything would happen if square wants it to...
So even if Melchior was killed in the new incident, he will still be in 1000 A.D., because you will know noting about his fate after the incident.
But they chose to let Marle disappear in 600 A.D., just because they need to find a reason why Crono and Lucca will try to help her anciestors, plus, since Leene is Marle's ancestor, it will easily make players wonder what if she got killed.

ZeaLitY

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2009, 02:29:23 am »
Blame Yuji Horii. Masato Kato wrote all of 12,000 B.C., and it seems he saw the problem with Melchior and Janus, and wrote a fix for it.

utunnels

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2009, 02:57:02 am »
Do you mean Mechior was supposed to be warped instead of just disappear?

lockgar

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2009, 03:59:07 am »
Although it would be beneficial if he did remember what happened in 12,000 BC when Crono and Co went through there, do you think overall it would matter in the case of him helping Guardia?

It seems to me that In the end Melchior would still side with Crono, if not because of his generosity with them throughout the game, but because we could most likely guess that Dalton was a jerk before hand too. How "evil" of a jerk before hand who knows.

Also, do you think he gave hand in helping Belthasar during Cross?

ZeaLitY

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2009, 04:03:58 am »
Do you mean Mechior was supposed to be warped instead of just disappear?

Nah, just that...it seems Kato took time traveling more seriously. In an interview, Horii said that he was a big fan of the TV show Time Tunnel, and mentioned how he was fascinated by things like going back in the past and interfering with your own personal past, which = grandfather paradox. Which the rest of the Chrono series doesn't use, so we take Kato's logic over Horii & Toriyama's.

Eske

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2009, 04:11:35 am »
Do you mean Mechior was supposed to be warped instead of just disappear?

The game makes it seem as though he was sent to 1000AD in a gate created by Lavos (Robo said so in my game at least) despite being far from Lavos.  However, the Compendium prefers to see it as TB at work.  

I think there is a difference between the "real" answer and the answer that makes the most sense. Or, if you would rather, the difference between the developers intentions for what plot points were supposed to be    vs     what plot points have to mean in order for the story to make sense.

Unfortunately, some of the major plot points have issues with eachother and gameplay that make a unified theory of Chronoverse mechanics pretty much impossible to create.  Two examples of such plot points are:

1. Marle vanishes due to variation of Grandfather Paradox - yet this paradox is missing from the rest of the game except for in number 2 below.

2. We see this again on Death Peak: the Crono Team needs an exact clone of Crono to replace the old one,  thus "tricking" the past version of the Team into doing exactly what they did last time:  try to bring back Crono.    

These attempts at preserving continuity are fine on their own - but the rest of the game completely supports TTI, TB, TE, etc, so the Compendium drops the major plot points in favor of gameplay observations.    I  suppose it would be just as reasonable to do the opposite if you could link the plot points together in a coherent manner.

Chrono'99

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2009, 05:12:18 am »
(Like how Marle did not recall ever being part frog, yet her body accounted for those changes as she came out of the gate -- weird that mind and body are separate)

Is that something new from the DS version translation? In the SNES version she's just surprised, she doesn't start croaking or anything.

utunnels

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2009, 06:49:43 am »
After the ocean palace incident, almost everything was destroyed. How did Magus know Schala was still alive?

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2009, 08:42:36 am »
No, but it is mentioned by the Elder when the Party wakes up in the Surviving Village.

As for Melchior's memory of Crono, it would pretty much be the same, except that his memories of Zeal would be altered to fit the Keystone Timeline's version of his life in Zeal, in which only the Lavos Timeline exclusive memories would be replaced by their counterparts in the Keystone Timeline (such as his imprisonment on Mt. Woe, which did not happen in the Lavos Timeline as far as we know).

In short, Lavos Timeline Melchior gets a taste of Time Bastard when his history is changed by Magus and Crono between the Fiendlord battle and the Keystone Timeline's Ocean Palace Incident, and is gradually replaced by the Melchior that Crono meets on Mt. Woe.

Eske

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2009, 11:07:03 am »
(Like how Marle did not recall ever being part frog, yet her body accounted for those changes as she came out of the gate -- weird that mind and body are separate)

Is that something new from the DS version translation? In the SNES version she's just surprised, she doesn't start croaking or anything.

Are you sure?  I always thought she croaked... well she does in my ROM and in the PSX version if I recall correctly...   For me, all of the changes, big and small, just really stand out - but the croaking didn't bother me at all so I think it was in the original..... maybe  :D

After the ocean palace incident, almost everything was destroyed. How did Magus know Schala was still alive?


He didn't.  Either he assumed that she had somehow saved herself, or it was just blind hope.

No, but it is mentioned by the Elder when the Party wakes up in the Surviving Village.

As for Melchior's memory of Crono, it would pretty much be the same, except that his memories of Zeal would be altered to fit the Keystone Timeline's version of his life in Zeal, in which only the Lavos Timeline exclusive memories would be replaced by their counterparts in the Keystone Timeline (such as his imprisonment on Mt. Woe, which did not happen in the Lavos Timeline as far as we know).

In short, Lavos Timeline Melchior gets a taste of Time Bastard when his history is changed by Magus and Crono between the Fiendlord battle and the Keystone Timeline's Ocean Palace Incident, and is gradually replaced by the Melchior that Crono meets on Mt. Woe.

You are still using reverse-time bastard... sort of.  By the Compendium's Time Bastard, the new Melchior never exists past the point of being sucked into the black gate after the Ocean Palace Incident, regardless of what the black gate is supposed to represent.   The new Melchior's memories never make it to 1000AD in any form - even with "omg Marle reverse-time bastard Frog/Queen Leene joke ending", Marle's memories did not change, but her body did.

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2009, 11:27:16 am »
OK, then, question.

Does it still fail or is it a least plausible?

lockgar

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Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2009, 06:14:39 pm »
Do you mean Mechior was supposed to be warped instead of just disappear?

Nah, just that...it seems Kato took time traveling more seriously. In an interview, Horii said that he was a big fan of the TV show Time Tunnel, and mentioned how he was fascinated by things like going back in the past and interfering with your own personal past, which = grandfather paradox. Which the rest of the Chrono series doesn't use, so we take Kato's logic over Horii & Toriyama's.

I wasn't aware Toriyama actually wrote any of the stories.