What would a new Chrono game look like?

[Jormungand]

This topic is to find out both what we want and what we expect to see. There's a lot of questions to be asked:

1. Would we see characters from the other games? Would the setting stay the same, or would the story take place elsewhere?
2. Time travel, dimensional travel, or (oh god) both?
3. Akira Toriyama or Nobuteru Yuuki? Or some new blood?
4. A huge team of playable characters like CC, or a smaller team like CT?
5. Battle transition for encounters (CC), or fight right on the field (CT)?
6. A battle system like the other titles, or entirely different?
7. Console or portable?
8. Is it possible that both CT fans and CC fans alike can be pleased?
9. Is there hope for another game in the first place?

Here's where I stand. I think the story will retain the same setting, but take place in a different time. I think some sort of cameos are a probability. As for time vs. dimensional travel, I don't know what we would get. I would prefer a return to time travel. With both, things could get absurdly complicated in a short amount of time.

I don't care for Toriyama; Yuuki's character designs are much better... and his work fits better into the artistic style of CC, which I would want to return. I would also like a smaller team of playable characters each with development at least to the equivalent to Kid. I also like fighting battles on the field, but transitions work just fine. As long as we can see the enemies on the field. As for the battle system, I expect something new. I like the customization aspect of CC, as well as the dual-triple techs of CT. I think a character-switch mechanic during battle would also be nice.

Console vs. portable... Console, please. Chrono deserves high production values and a big budget. Regardless of how much production is put into the game, the budget does not guarantee quality either way. Just as a high cost development cycle doesn't produce instant magic, neither does buckling down and putting out a retro-style portable title. The core gameplay will succeed or fail regardless of this aspect. Thus, I would prefer the greater, more detailed and theatrical experience since I believe (and I think most fans would agree) a Chrono game deserves an epic medium to tell its story.

Now the fun question: Can fans on all sides be pleased? Probably not. But certainly a new chrono game could do a lot to reconcile the differences. Regardless, I don't think the developers of a potential new title should concern themselves with pleasing the fans, as long as they stay true to the universe and give us another great experience. As for whether we can expect a new game... the frequency of speculation topics like this will only increase since CT DS' release. It'd be one thing if it would've been a straight PSX port, with no additional plot content. But since they went to the trouble, they must have known speculation would rise. It of course first depends on the series' bankability; and then, on the availability of the team. We already know Kato and Mitsuda's positive interest in this. I guess all that's needed now is for FFXI to finally die.

[Fireseal]

I guess all that's needed now is for FFXI to finally die.

Even though I loved FFXI when it first came out, I concur that it must die.


I'm currently on my third play through the game, trying to get everyone to lvl 99 with max stat on Magic(except for Ayla), trying to get the extras list completed before paying the Dream Devourer a visit. I'm at the part where you need to find the Masamune & the Hero Medal and it gave me an idea.. One thing I'd think would be neat to see is for the Hero's Medal to appear once again in this third Chrono game, and that the character using this Hero's Medal would be named 'Cyrus'(not the Cyrus from CT, just another character who happens to bear the same name, kind of like Glenn from CC. Or maybe it be the same Cyrus from CT, whichever SE thinks is more convenient) or 'Tata'(the little kid who for sometime in CT, paraded as the Hero of Guardia, to provide some comical relief like Pierre from CC).


Another thing I'd like to see in this third game, in order to view the game's true ending, the player must view all of the other endings beforehand. Although I can picture this being very annoying for some people.. hehe..


Last thing I'd like is for the main character to be able to have dialogue. I just came back from reading 'Rate the Characters of Chrono Cross' article, I was so glad that I was not the only one that felt that SE should cease making games with their main characters being silent.

[Zergplex]

Now the fun question: Can fans on all sides be pleased?

In my opinion this question is irrelevent. Did they try to please the Chrono Trigger crowd when making Chrono Cross? No, they had an idea and they made cross into a great game of it's own regardless of Chrono Trigger. I feel the third game, while it may draw on the other two in ways, will also be it's OWN game. The fans will either be pleased or they won't, Square will be focused on making an amazing game without concern for the two games that came before it. Maybe it will end up similiar to one of the two original games, or maybe like Cross it will have a style all it's own.

[chrono eric]

I think an absolutely awesome new game would include both time travel and dimensional travel. Absurdly complicated? Probably. But it would be incredibly interesting.

I'd also expect for all loose plot ends to be completely tied up just in case there won't be a 4th Chrono game. That would stop all the endlessly circuitous speculation. That's probably hoping for too much though, especially since we don't even know if another Chrono game will be made.

How is the CTDS sales doing? I don't keep track of that stuff. I know they were predicting less than stellar sales bc of the leak of the game and Chrono fans downloading it. That would ironically potentially screw us for a Chrono sequel.

[lockgar]

This topic is to find out both what we want and what we expect to see. There's a lot of questions to be asked:

1. Would we see characters from the other games? Would the setting stay the same, or would the story take place elsewhere?
2. Time travel, dimensional travel, or (oh god) both?
3. Akira Toriyama or Nobuteru Yuuki? Or some new blood?
4. A huge team of playable characters like CC, or a smaller team like CT?
5. Battle transition for encounters (CC), or fight right on the field (CT)?
6. A battle system like the other titles, or entirely different?
7. Console or portable?
8. Is it possible that both CT fans and CC fans alike can be pleased?
9. Is there hope for another game in the first place?

1. Yes, maybe even explain what actually happens to them. In both games :p . Cross didn't really explain what happen to the islands, and how they where effected, after the ending, just that they did it. Also, what the hell happend to Crono and crew?

2. BOTH!

3. Akira, I like how his character designs tend to be more practice, rather then have a character with 6 belts on them. Also, how you usually wont mistaken a character's gender, unless it is completely intentional "DAMN YOU FLEA!  "

4. I actually wouldn't mind so many characters, but maybe reduce the amount you can have join youto better develop them. One thing I loved in Cross was the amound of character you could have, but you always had to have serge in the group, so you could only really ever have 2 of them with you at a time.... RPGs tend to have this knack of having three to a group, so another thing I would love to see is maybe see that go up , 4 - 6.

5. I think fight on the field is just plain awesome. Its a pity more games don't take after this. I would also love to see how the field effect the battle like it did in Cross, where the elements would change depending on the area. Also how in trigger, distance could effect some of your tech attacks. Maybe add some more interesting things like have enemies on another elevation, unable to be hit by someone with a melee weapon without some sort of special attack or magic.

6. Originality is always good. I however, would love to see double and triple techs have more of an important role in the next game. On another note, I thought Cross had one of the best melee/range attack systems ever. I did not really care for the element system. Interesting idea, but just didn't like how you had to plan ahead of time for the next fight "with no knowledge on what you are about to fight without cheating", or some elements would be completely useless. Granted you had the ability to run away in any fight for that reason  .
 
7. Console, defiantly a console.

8. With the amount of hate I've seen from BOTH SIDES, that would be impossible. Heck I've seen users here hate on every opportunity they get when someone simply express an opinion.

9. If the CT:DS release manages to outsell there other re:releases then you bet your ass it does.

[Acacia Sgt]

Let's see...

1 - Yes. Who knows, maybe in the same place, but another era?

2 - Both sounds good, yet for time travel it must be done in a way that it doesn't affect the previous events of the past games, or make them change them and complicate things a lot.

3 - That is one I don't have an answer.

4 - Well, large casts like in CC are more for Strategy RPG's like Fire Emblem, where at least in there the characters have a reason to join you! Maybe a smaller team, like maybe 10 or so characters.

5 - Fight in the field. It was interesting seeing that in a non-action RPG.

6 - That's the last that I care, something different than the last two, or a mix of both. But, I would want to see more Double and Triple techs, unlike Cross who had few.

7 - Console, they have the capacity for more content than portables.

8 - No, there will be things that some will like, but others not. It's very hard, if not impossible, to please everyone.

9 - That will depend, but I do hope that another game will be made.

[Zergplex]

How is the CTDS sales doing? I don't keep track of that stuff. I know they were predicting less than stellar sales bc of the leak of the game and Chrono fans downloading it. That would ironically potentially screw us for a Chrono sequel.

There is a thread in the CT:DS forum regarding it's sales for the first week. If I recall correctly it was .7 million copies, though my memory could be faulty. Either way it was a very good first week for the game, beating some other DS games total sales in it's first week.

[chrono eric]

So then I would think the outlook would look good for at least a Chrono Cross remake. Which is a start I guess.

[Xenterex]

1.  Characters in both games have a prominent impact with their perspective lives, so at the very minimum, so sort of mention of characters from either/both would be appropriate, though not necessarily for their actions directly tied to their prospective games.

2.  Dimension travel is a touchy subject that I think a) is too difficult to really make feasible for a good story b) leads to too many "what if" style story writing.  Both together would be a headache and would need REALLY good writing to pull that off, and I don't think anyone would want to invest that sort of idea (unless someone's been working on something like this and refining it for at least a decade)  into a high production game with known writer's, let alone a possible dark horse.

3.  so long as the character design fits with the world feel and compliments the story development, don't care.

4.  A solid core cast to at least progress the story is a must.  Square's game style generally doesn't work well with larger casts, and Enix tends to just add in "fun" type filler characters, which are okay in a certain, or at least story justifiable quantity. Overall though, I'd like to shoot for at least 4 main party that have development and purpose, plus two major villains, not too mention at least a few npc's on the sidelines for game progression, but not necessarily positive or negative player interaction.

5. I think games can handle fight in the field better nowadays, and I think it works better with the idea that monsters can be seen, and thus avoided.

6.  Tech combinations are neat and should hand around, but something alittle different on the turn based timer rotation could be neat.

7. At least a console installment (even if the game is retro like Mega Man 9)
8.  Yes, but chances are that SE (should they actually pursue such a project) would bisect the road tat links the common ground of the fanbase from the previous games and further divide and isolate particular fan interests.
9.  I'm leaning more towards no at this point.  SE has had their gambles in the past, and paid for them.  They're more prone to creating, or even releasing games that tend to be more 'safe', or at least don't have major financial backing at risk to them anymore.  a new Chrono game would be so hard for them to read into at this point, let alone produce with the amount of attention that it would warrant for more than just namesake success; they'd probably prefer to play it safe and simply not make one. 

[Ramsus]

They still haven't explored the origin of Lavos. That leaves a real big open window for an interesting game that features not just time travel or dimensional travel, but possibly space travel too, which could be pretty cool.

You'd start out in the future of Crono's world, and in a space exploration mission to a ruined world with traces of advanced civilization, get flung through a gate into the distant past where it turns out there was human (not human-like, but human) life there millions of years before it should have ever existed. Then you come to discover a bio-weapon to control time and magic resembling Lavos is being worked on. The weapon then lets loose on the world, as the person who turns out to be the main bad guy attempts to fuse with it and become all powerful. After nearly beating it, it sends its spawn off into space, and sends you back into the future so it can recover.

Having lost the means to return and defeat the ultimate bad guy, you return home to regroup, and based on the genetic data collected by your computer, you find a match in a database that leads you to encounter Balthasar and Lucca...

Throw in some cameos of the really popular characters, events, and scenes from the previous two games (i.e. have Robo, Lucca, or even Magus join your party a few times, maybe end up in a dual with Crono, etc.), and a plot twist that ties it all back to the beginning, and things could get to be pretty fun and exciting.

A more futuristic design aesthetic would be better for most of the art, but the style should be flexible enough to work with more colorful periods and characters (i.e. 1000 A.D). Having turn-based battles in the field would be something that makes it stand out a bit, especially if it took the battle mechanic ideas from Cross a few steps further, maybe mixing it a bit with Xenogears, but refactored to include a regular technique system that allows dual and triple techs to fit in well.

I'd also say mostly ditch the dimensional thing except as applied to technology, and keep the actual main cast of permanent, playable characters down to maybe 4 or 5 tops. That way you can really flesh all the playable characters out completely. You could also throw in support for recruiting characters as easter eggs, maybe with a post-game dungeon that lets you carry over some of the secret characters into a later point of a New Game+.

The real focus of this game shouldn't be time travel so much as a basic theme of how choices affect time. To accomplish this, everything you do in the alien planet should have a significant impact on future outcomes in the game.


But whatever. The important thing is that they make the game its own game first, with a style and mechanic that fits whatever story and theme they choose. The game should be able to stand on its own as a quality game, and only be a sequel by virtue of the cross-overs in the story and with some of the characters and cross-overs in some of the mechanics (i.e. time travel, dual techs, elemental types, etc.).

[Schrupp Daddy]

Insert Quote
3. Akira Toriyama or Nobuteru Yuuki? Or some new blood?
8. Is it possible that both CT fans and CC fans alike can be pleased?
9. Is there hope for another game in the first place?

Now the fun question: Can fans on all sides be pleased? Probably not. But certainly a new chrono game could do a lot to reconcile the differences. Regardless, I don't think the developers of a potential new title should concern themselves with pleasing the fans, as long as they stay true to the universe and give us another great experience. As for whether we can expect a new game... the frequency of speculation topics like this will only increase since CT DS' release. It'd be one thing if it would've been a straight PSX port, with no additional plot content. But since they went to the trouble, they must have known speculation would rise. It of course first depends on the series' bankability; and then, on the availability of the team.

You can never please everyone, and when you love what you're making, you don't really care about anyone. The definition of a fan is someone who enjoys your work, and if you have to plead with them and make compromises to get their love, then you're wasting you're time. Artists who do things for their fans are doomed to fail: once your fans lose interest in what you're doing, and you were doing it all for them, then what do you live for? Works created for 'the fans' usually range from mediocre to garbage: the entire Star Wars prequel trilogy, the sequel to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Megaman X 6-8, Nickleback, and Family Guy. As an artist, you have to love what you do to the point of being selfish about it. If you have fans, then great! But if you don't, who cares? You're doing what you love to do!

Unfortunately, some works of art are more expensive than others, and its easier to do when you have the checkbook of a major company backing you. Sure, Masato Kato could do another Chrono game all by himself, but it would be about the quality of a flash-based game without any good economical backing, which you will not get if you can't convince them that your idea is marketable. I'd think that one out of five game ideas come through as the creator/team's original artistic vision. And since Masato Kato isn't exactly a household name, I don't think that attaching his name to any body of work would make it a best-seller.

With the mixed response towards Chrono Cross' plot, I don't think that Square would let Kato unleash another opus without a few consultants and several final drafts. That, coupled with the fact that most j-rpg fans are more into zippers, belts and gimp outfits these days probably means that there will be a brand new artist to draw up a 'brand new' cast of character.

I guess we have to realize that the last entry in the series was almost a decade ago, and officially old news to most people. I bet  4/5 of the people who bought Chrono Trigger DS had already played it on the SNES and Playstation, so I don't think there'd be to many fans. Of course, its loved in Japan, so maybe if it went past the 3x million mark they'd decide that enough people care about it so it'd be good for a go.

So, what's more important, getting an edited version of your original idea put out (which is what would probably happen), or keeping it to yourself and leaving your fans disappointed? Some people care so much about their 'artistic vision' that they would rather have it die before having it changed, but maybe Kato would make a deal with the devil. Of course, he doesn't own the rights to the Chrono series, so Square could just get a/some different writer/writers altogether.

[Xenterex]

even outside of being a 'artist' masterpiece, or at least perceivably so in the hands of experienced story writers, sometimes the edits, or rather collaborations and revisions and simply having other people involved and really help with a story, particularly one with as many unusual elements as Chrono games have.  I have from my writing that much of my drafts only really make sense to me because its all sound in my head, whereas once I get a few proofreads from someone else, things fall into place better.

Personally, I got the feel from Cross that it had little revision/colab work done on it, and that's one of the things that turned me off on it right away.  It simply had more potential than what we were given, and I think if there were to be another Chrono game, Kato should either have more of an inner circle to work with, or he be given more of the senior editor position to fine tune what is written by a team, as I think that's when he shines the most.   As far as "keeping your idea to yourself" in the chronoverse goes, I'm thinking that if they actually had something worked out, there would've been some sort of release done by now, and not even a video game.  Manga or novels or a movie or whatnot would easily justify the production value if they put little more work into than slap a chrono associated title on it.

As far as a new game goes, I would love more onto the origins on Lavos (in some shape or another, not even the lead plot, though that could be spiffy esp space travel+)  Heck, there's the whole Zenan continent conflict/mystery to cover, which for all we know could evolve into a time-war civil dispute. I think the post disappointing thing about the Chronoverse thus far is simply not having more installments being produced over this past decade because they do have so much there.  Granted, I'm alittle pessimistic about how another official game would turn out, it still a wasted potential.

[Shadow D. Darkman]

1. Would we see characters from the other games? Would the setting stay the same, or would the story take place elsewhere?
2. Time travel, dimensional travel, or (oh god) both?
3. Akira Toriyama or Nobuteru Yuuki? Or some new blood?
4. A huge team of playable characters like CC, or a smaller team like CT?
5. Battle transition for encounters (CC), or fight right on the field (CT)?
6. A battle system like the other titles, or entirely different?
7. Console or portable?
8. Is it possible that both CT fans and CC fans alike can be pleased?
9. Is there hope for another game in the first place?

1. We had better see the old ones, kinda like how Crono, Marle, and Lucca appeared in Cross. If anything, keep it on Elosia (the planet that CT and CC takes place on, according to Chrono Trigger: The Planeswalkers by MoxJet on IcyBrian).

2. IDC if you travel dimensions like in Cross, but it's not a Chrono game without time travel, even if it's only a small bit. Space travel would be interesting, like if we went to where Lavos' species originates from, and ultimately cause their extinction.

3. Toriyama-sensei and Yuuki teaming up and pooling their art styles into one. That would be kickass.

4. I'd say a midway point between CT and CC party-wise. More than 7 characters, but not like over 30 characters. Try about 14 for good measure.

5. Don't care. As long as if they use battleground transition, the arenas look good.

6. CT's battle system. CC's was too confusing for me.

7. Doesn't matter, as long as it comes out, I'll get it.

8. Highly doubtful. More than likely people will still hate on it regardless.

9. If someone isn't hoping for a new game, they're not real Chrono fans.

Another thing I'd like to see in this third game, in order to view the game's true ending, the player must view all of the other endings beforehand. Although I can picture this being very annoying for some people.. hehe..

This would be annoying. Scrap it.

Last thing I'd like is for the main character to be able to have dialogue. I just came back from reading 'Rate the Characters of Chrono Cross' article, I was so glad that I was not the only one that felt that SE should cease making games with their main characters being silent.

Agreed. We never know what Crono or Serge would say b/c SE wants them to be "literal avatars" of the person playing it. If this were true, heh, they should let us decide what to do with what's going on. *grins like a maniac at the thought he's having*

[Schrupp Daddy]

I have from my writing that much of my drafts only really make sense to me because its all sound in my head, whereas once I get a few proofreads from someone else, things fall into place better.

True. With me, I see how everything is in my head, so I sometimes make the mistake of not explaining something when I'm writing it out, simply because I don't take into account the ignorance of other people. (Which can't be blamed since we can't exactly read eachothers' minds!) While I don't like other people helping me develop the bulk of my work, I do like it when people point out inconsistencies, and I'm sure its the same among professionals: we all need editors.

[Rowan Seven]

In unoccupied Medina, Melchior's adopted grandson dreams of avenging the parents he never knew, unaware of the royal blood that flows through his veins...

In the El Nido archipelago, an intrepid youth dreams of an adventure the world has forgotten and a girl who is unforgettable, not knowing that his quest to find her will take him to times and places beyond imagination...

In military-controlled Porre, a mighty general dreams of immortality and world domination, there being few left who can oppose his schemes...

In the sea of time, a beautiful princess dreams of returning to the one she loves, but she has lost her way...

And beyond the walls of time and space, an ancient king dreams of becoming the lord of time itself, his far-reaching plans already in motion...

The planet's dream has become a nightmare, and when the three triggers act as one to cross the final gate and enter the realm of Zurvan there will be no averting the...Chrono Break!


Heh, anyway, moving away from fan musings to the questions you posed...

1. Would we see characters from the other games? Would the setting stay the same, or would the story take place elsewhere?

Hm...personally, there are two major approaches I think of when considering what a third game in the Chrono series might be like.  It could follow the Chrono Cross model, starting in the same world in the "present" but featuring new locations and starring a new cast of characters.  The story would be related to the previous installments and feature references to and cameos from both, answering some questions, raising new questions, but capable of standing on its own.  Or it could try to be a "culmination" of the series, continuing the stories of both Trigger and Cross, providing closure to both casts, and definitively resolving this time traveling epic.   

Both options have advantages and disadvantages, and both would require a really good story to even begin to meet expectations.  I might prefer the latter for the sake of closure, but on the other hand the unanswered questions and uncertainties are part of the charm of the two games, in my opinion, and I like how, instead of spelling everything out, the games give us the freedom to fill in the unknown with our imaginations.

2. Time travel, dimensional travel, or (oh god) both?

Either, both, or something different would be fine with me so long as it is interesting and enjoyable.  Besides, the two aren't mutually exclusive, and perhaps part of the game could feature time travel before some momentous event occurs (collapse of a timeline?) and a jump to dimensional travel takes place.  Including dimensional travel could also open up the reptite/dragonian dimension in a new game, and that could be very intriguing.

3. Akira Toriyama or Nobuteru Yuuki? Or some new blood?

Tough question.  I prefer Yuuki's art style in Chrono Cross over Toriyama's designs in Chrono Trigger, but I think creating a game that looks great and will continue to be attractive as graphics and modeling  improve is more important than who the lead artist is.  Chrono Trigger is still visually appealing (at least on the small DS screen) despite being released so many years ago, and Chrono Cross is a delicious feast of beautiful color for the eyes.  If a new Chrono game is made, it might be better if they went with something enduringly memorable like Valkyria Chronicles' cell shading rather than attempt hyper-realism.   

4. A huge team of playable characters like CC, or a smaller team like CT?

I might be in the minority here, but I rather liked Chrono Cross' extensive cast.  The Cross cast had diverse personalities and motivations, and I found them to be a refreshing change of pace from the common "three to seven characters drawn together by fate and coincidence who you'll know just about everything about by the end of the game" pattern.  Still, I will admit that some of them were somewhat...silly, so maybe a compromise between Chrono Trigger's seven and Chrono Cross's 40+ would be advisable.  Or, perhaps even better, have a smaller group of "core" characters with a huge cast of NPCs that join and leave your party as playable characters as the story progresses, with some characters exclusive to certain divergent paths players choose like in Chrono Cross for additional replay value. 

5. Battle transition for encounters (CC), or fight right on the field (CT)?

Either one's fine with me so long as it doesn't take too long for fights to start and looks good.

6. A battle system like the other titles, or entirely different?

I played the games more because I enjoyed the story than because I enjoyed the gameplay, so as long as the battle system continues the tradition of techs and offers at least a reasonable challenge without being frustratingly convoluted there's a good chance that it'll be pleasing to me.

7. Console or portable?

Console.  While both the DS and PSP are powerful systems in their own right, I view the Chrono series as a console series and would like to see what a possible third installment could accomplish by utilizing the technological potential of the next generation systems.

8. Is it possible that both CT fans and CC fans alike can be pleased?

Depends on what you mean by your question.  If you're asking whether everyone would be pleased with a third game, that is unlikely.  It can be very difficult to please everybody, especially with a series as beloved and with as many beloved characters as the Chrono games, and trying to do so could weaken the final product.  However, I imagine that many Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross fans would be pleased with a third installment if the game is good, even if there are segments of the fan community who feel differently. 

9. Is there hope for another game in the first place?

Yes.  Both games were financial successes and critically acclaimed, and the series has clearly not been forgotten.  With the release of Chrono Trigger DS there are even more reasons to encourage hope in the possibility of a new installment.  None of this means that there will be another game, of course, but optimism is not uncalled for here.