Author Topic: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)  (Read 136747 times)

placidchap

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2008, 09:21:10 am »
Alright, I don't know if this was said yet but.

I haven't played the new areas, only read about them...The Lost Sanctum is the Reptite place right?  And these new areas are dimensional in nature and name?

One could say that for the relevant dimensions of Trigger and Cross, that these actions by Crono & crew saved the reptites/dragonians in the "Reptite Dimension" and saved the dragon tear for later use in Cross.  For if they did not kill off the baddies, the baddies would have killed off the reptites/dragonians and either stole/used/destroyed the dragon tear, with the Cross never to be made...and the TD free to consume all.

And if one is to believe this theory, then it could be possible that, at least this dimensonial vortex was made with a purpose, to allow Cross to happen as it did.  Who could have done this is unkown...Schala, a (the) Guru(s), the Entity, Lavos, etc.

Another thought:  If these vortices were purposely opened by person/thing "X", for the purpose of saving person/place/dimension/timeline "Y" (and/or"X")...could person/thing "Z" have plucked a Crono, Marle and Lucca from other dimensions to try and prevent the player party from going through these areas?  With the intent of these "clones" to perserve their own dimension, which would be ruined by the players actions?  And the intent of person/thing "Z" of perserving itself.
Make any sense?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 09:46:04 am by placidchap »

FaustWolf

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2008, 12:44:03 pm »
Magus comes back becomes prophet ==> Magus boots out Crono and company ==> (crono and company dont come back in this timeline) ==> Fights lavos. Everyone loses schala saves the prophet just like she saved crono and co. ==> Over time magus builds a group of people to challenge lavos ==> Defeats lavos ...Dream Devour appears ==> goes to portal ==> New DS ending

json, if we're going to base Eclipse Magus' origin on his Prophet's cloak, I think we should take that concept to its natural extreme  -- that this is, in fact, somehow the Magus from the What the Prophet Seeks ending. Magus is never, ever, seen with his Prophet's cloak outside of Zeal. He has no need for it unless he's in Queen Zeal's court. If this is the case, then one of the following would have to have occurred:

1. Over time Magus builds a group of people (in Zeal) to challenge Lavos (and needed his cloak to maintain the Prophet's charade)

2. Magus confronts Lavos and is somehow sucked directly into Time's Eclipse with his cloak still on.

3. Magus thought the cloak was cool and kept it on as he pursued post-fall of Zeal time traveling in an effort to destroy Lavos.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 12:46:07 pm by FaustWolf »

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2008, 01:31:32 pm »
Who's to say Magus hasn't always just had the Prophet robe, and puts it on whenever he wants to be mysterious?  I say that with a tinge of sarcasm, but also in truth.  Perhaps it's not something super difficult, after all?

Nictron84

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2008, 01:40:15 pm »
Hi, I'm new to this site, although I have spent a good deal of time over the past year or so reading through the posts and different sections on the site.

Before I start I think I should declare my history with the Chrono series. I have played CT since a month after it came out on SNES, I was 11, I still play through it every year or so, the replayability, depth blah blah blah are unsurpassed in my humble opinion. CC on the other hand, I never completed, never saw it completed aside from youtube videos, the story was pretty great but the extreme amount of superfluous characters really turned me off and made me feel like there was never really a definitive direction for the game (and I hated the combat, sorry, don't judge too harshly). I have also read through Radical Dreamers a time or two or three.

So after reading and reading I have come to question one thing about this series.
Is there really any true "Canon"?

Hear me out before you label me a heretic. Or just let me know if I am retreading ground that has already been well covered. I don't think Kato ever intended for there to be any one single "true" thread.

In CT we are dealing with time travel and the effects thereof. But we are only seeing it through our own eyes or through a single journey "thread". There are multiple endings. Insane amounts of possibilities. CT shows us one singular thread in time-space, we alter it, play with it and make our choices but we remain the same personality. Do we save Crono? Luccas mom? Do we destroy Lavos properly? But we always remain on the same thread of time-space.

In CC we are introduced to multiple threads. The what-if question is brought up. Every possible action or inaction in CT is brought to bare. Every choice/action/inaction creates a separate thread or "dimension". Now seeing as I never fully completed CC, I am going to assume that we are playing as one thread that is able to weave in and out of other threads. CC actually acknowledges other choices that could have been made, which are quite infinite. Which is why this whole series seems so convoluted.

My opinion is that we are able to determine the story on our own, which is why I believe, with only two (and a half RD) games under its belt, that this series has remained so beloved. I have always dreamed of a game where I get to choose what happens and have full control of the outcome of the story and characters. It's always been right under my nose.

I don't think that this series has gone at all in the direction that Kato originally intended it. Or maybe it has, who knows. Maybe he did at one point have an over-arching singular thread that was meant to be the be-all end-all story for this game and perhaps it will be revealed through another game. I hope not.


Now as to the discussion about Magus in the new ending. Has anyone killed Magus at North Cape then played through the DV? Thats my next mission, if you have, please share.

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2008, 02:19:15 pm »
Alright, I don't know if this was said yet but.

I haven't played the new areas, only read about them...The Lost Sanctum is the Reptite place right?  And these new areas are dimensional in nature and name?

One could say that for the relevant dimensions of Trigger and Cross, that these actions by Crono & crew saved the reptites/dragonians in the "Reptite Dimension" and saved the dragon tear for later use in Cross.  For if they did not kill off the baddies, the baddies would have killed off the reptites/dragonians and either stole/used/destroyed the dragon tear, with the Cross never to be made...and the TD free to consume all.

And if one is to believe this theory, then it could be possible that, at least this dimensonial vortex was made with a purpose, to allow Cross to happen as it did.  Who could have done this is unkown...Schala, a (the) Guru(s), the Entity, Lavos, etc.

Another thought:  If these vortices were purposely opened by person/thing "X", for the purpose of saving person/place/dimension/timeline "Y" (and/or"X")...could person/thing "Z" have plucked a Crono, Marle and Lucca from other dimensions to try and prevent the player party from going through these areas?  With the intent of these "clones" to perserve their own dimension, which would be ruined by the players actions?  And the intent of person/thing "Z" of perserving itself.
Make any sense?

The Dragon's Tear is most likely not the same thing as the Dragon Tear in Chrono Cross. The Dragon Tear was a Dragonian artifact, not merely a Reptite's. Besides, those monsters couldn't get the Dragon Tear as long as the Reptites hid in their homes.

Also, if that is supposed to be the Reptites dimension, then why do they act so damn nice towards humans? According to our information, the Reptite dimension is a dimension where the Reptites won the war against the humans, and Lavos never fell. If they would have been at war with humans previously, they wouldn't act so nicely towards them now, especially not ask them favors, OR give them one of their most cherished artifacts, the Dragon's Tear.

No, I do not think that is the Reptite dimension where Reptites continued to evolve into Dragonians and created Dinopolis. I don't know what it is then, but not that.

Agent 12

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2008, 03:38:31 pm »
json, if we're going to base Eclipse Magus' origin on his Prophet's cloak, I think we should take that concept to its natural extreme  -- that this is, in fact, somehow the Magus from the What the Prophet Seeks ending. Magus is never, ever, seen
with his Prophet's cloak outside of Zeal. He has no need for it unless he's in Queen Zeal's court. If this is the case, then one of the following would have to have occurred:

1. Over time Magus builds a group of people (in Zeal) to challenge Lavos (and needed his cloak to maintain the Prophet's charade)

2. Magus confronts Lavos and is somehow sucked directly into Time's Eclipse with his cloak still on.

3. Magus thought the cloak was cool and kept it on as he pursued post-fall of Zeal time traveling in an effort to destroy Lavos.

I'm not saying that were suppose to take the cloak to that extreme at all.  There's no reason to over analyze the cloak and see what scenarios would lead to him still wearing it.  I'm sort of against over analyzing a video game like that (for example there's thread talking about how powerful flare is and such). 

In fact the difficulty in explaining how he is still wearing cloak is my exact point....there is no reason for him to be wearing the cloak UNLESS it's a hint from kato on where eclipse magus came from.  Kato could have picked any one of the many many magus animations, but instead he picked a totally different sprite.  I'm not analyzing the clothes magus is wearing, I'm analyzing the choice of sprite used by kato to introduce eclipse magus.

--JP

Dream Devourer

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2008, 03:55:50 pm »
First off, hello everyone! I love this site and look forward to becoming part of it's community!

I think Eclipse Magus being the one from What the prophet seeks is indeed the most logical solution to this whole "Who's that Magus?" mess. The tricky thing here is that we don't exactly know what happened over the Ocean Palace, but evidence seems to suggest Magus lost as usual and Schala sends him to a safe place. Eventually he teams up with Crono and co, either still disguised as the prophet or not, and they all go to fight Lavos.

At some point during the fight, I think everyone but Magus could have died, leaving him alone to finish the job. What matters is that Magus survived and experienced Lavos dying (sorta). Magus still refers to himself and the group as we, which could either allude to the possibility that the group survived or that he greatly respects them.

Anyway, he eventually succeeded...but Schala was nowhere to be found. Later he travels to Time's Eclipse, of which I do not yet fully understand how it works,  but here is what I think it is:
-Like a real world eclipse where the sun and moon "intersect", Time's Eclipse is where all alternate timelines are able to intersect
-The Greek verb from which eclipse originates (ekleípō, I cease to exist) might describe the purpose of Time's Eclipse, as Lavos should basically have died after his battle with either Crono's group in the normal timeline or Magus/Magus' group in "his" timeline. Interestingly enough, it also seems to describe Schala's/the Dream Devourer's current mindset.
-If TE is really where alternate timelines intersect, the Dream Devourer might possibly be multiple Lavos' and Schala's (or it's just a plothole)

Anyhow, Magus is about to enter the portal inside TE to the "new" enemy as Crono and co show up. He's wearing his robe because Kato wants us to know where this Magus originates from.  It appears he believes them to be from the past, which would be what most of us would think should we encounter ourself with a group that might have died (or disbanded, whatever, it's just unlikely for the group to stayed together in any timeline). Brave Magus, having experienced Lavos die or maybe even being responsible for it, probably believes himself to be of godly strength and able to defeat anything that might ever cross him again...or simply wishes to keep Crono and co safe, who knows?

He enters the portal and the rest is history.

Summary:

What the prophet seeks---Magus and the group defeating Lavos (group possibly dying)---Magus goes to TE, encounters group and goes to face the Dream Devourer---Magus loses his memory---Chrono Cross?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 11:20:18 am by Dream Devourer »

Agent 12

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2008, 03:58:48 pm »
Quote
but evidence seems to suggest Magus lost as usual and Schala sends him to another time. Eventually he teams up with Crono and co, either still disguised as the prophet or not, and they all go to fight Lavos.


I agree with everything but that.  I'm not sure theres any reason why schala would send him to another time.  She only sent Crono and co. to last village she'd probably do the same to him.

--JP

Dream Devourer

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2008, 04:10:46 pm »
Quote
but evidence seems to suggest Magus lost as usual and Schala sends him to another time. Eventually he teams up with Crono and co, either still disguised as the prophet or not, and they all go to fight Lavos.


I agree with everything but that.  I'm not sure theres any reason why schala would send him to another time.  She only sent Crono and co. to last village she'd probably do the same to him.

--JP

Sorry, it's been five or so years since I last played the game, so my memory isn't that good...^^"

Anyhow, then just replace "another time" with "a safe place" or whatever village they got send to...I think.

Magus22

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2008, 04:28:21 pm »
Is it safe to say that from the knowledge of CT DS, more plotholes have been created? :D

What exactly has it "patched" up if there is another Magus dressed as the Prophet attempting to defeat what looks to be the Lavos of the CT realm combined with a fresh Schala (possibly the start of Schala's hate)? It may look similar to CC's final boss, but they are in fact quite different.

There are 2 Magus's... for sure... this has to be established as one is in the EoT and the other in the Eclipse (dressed differently). The first Magus we have (currently in the EoT) is the Janus who got thrown in 600AD via the dimensional distortion (Zeal incident) BEFORE Chrono and company. Could the second Magus (the one in the Eclipse) be a result of the Janus who got thrown into the distortion WHEN Chrono and company arrived?

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2008, 04:41:02 pm »
Don't think that's possible. According to the Time Bastard theory, in the Keystone timeline even if Chrono interfered, Janus would go to 600 AD.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2008, 05:31:01 pm »
The only potential plot hole I've seen is that you stop the Archeofangs from invading the Lost Sanctum in 65,000,000 B.C., and yet before you do that, the Reptites are still fine and dandy in 600 A.D. So it's a bit like the Zenan Bridge thing, where somehow the Archeofangs would have been stopped anyway or something would have prevented them from invading.

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2008, 05:48:46 pm »
Really? When I tried entering Lost Sanctum in 600 AD, there were a lot of monsters and a party members said there were too many to fight, and we should come back later. Then I killed the monsters in the forest in 65,000,000 BC and I could go in Lost Sanctum in 600 AD.

KebreI

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2008, 08:17:33 pm »
I think that we need to be very open to the concept of theories such as TTI, Time error etc. now being faulty. I am not say that are quite yet, but Time bastard seems to be posing a problem for Future Magus yet we all know hes there canon or not.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2008, 11:45:09 pm »
This is still all possible if the Chrono team's visit to those places is seen as not happening, like a simple glimpse into what's going on with the Dream Devourer or other stuff that wouldn't happen on the normal quest. It definitely shouldn't happen, considering Lavos has to be defeated for the Dream Devourer to begin forming.