Author Topic: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)  (Read 136970 times)

art_garfunkel

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2008, 04:25:05 pm »
I think the ones who fight the DD are past versions of them, who were surprised to find the Temporal Vortexes and the portal to Time's Eclipse and decided to check them out. Those areas open after the defeat of Lavos, so why not a past version of them (who can, unlike the current ones, who defeated Lavos and went their separate ways) traveled to those places?
Pardon me if I do say that this makes no sense.

Taken from a previous post of mine:

After all, even if they are in, for example, 600 A.D. fighting Retinite, before, while going for the Masamune, there wasn't any Sunken Desert, but after telling the woman in Zeal not to burn the seed, there now is, meaning all past versions who crossed 600 A.D. for various reasons (Looking for the Masamune, going to Magus's Castle, etc.), are now going to see the place. Eventually, they will get Time Bastarded, but still, they can do something that can make a further change to the time line to the ones already done (thankfully they don't, or else more troubles could arrise to keep track of the continuity).
I prefer to see it as when a change is made to an era, the characters will only see those changes in subsequent visits. It makes things (thankfully) much less confusing. For example, there is the normal flow of time, and there is the character's timeline.

They travel through 1,000 AD at first, there is no forest. -> They then travel to 600 AD and planet the seed. -> They go back to 1000 AD and the forest is there. -> The history books say that a forest grew there starting in 600 AD.

But that does not mean that they forest was there in their past visits to 1000 AD.

It will be, since the first time-line-chronological event was the planting of the seed. After that, the forest will grow. In their first travel through 1,000 A.D., the forest will be there. True, it eliminates the need to plant the seed now, but we have Time Bastard and Time Traveler Immunity to solve this. Then, when the ones who planted the seed return to 1,000 A.D., the forest will be there thanks to their change.
I'm not following your logic. There has to have been a point in 1000 AD where there was no forest, or else Chrono and team would never have planted the seed. If you go back in time and change something, the changes are evident only after you make the change. Just as the Chrono series explains, every time something in a timeline is changed in the past, it creates a "new dimension" proceeding from that point forward. The characters return to the new dimension where there is a forest, and the old dimension without a forest is relegated to the Darkness Beyond Time. I believe.

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I can't even enjoy the game anymore, there's nothing left of it but mayhem, despair and destruction.

I'm out of here, have a good one.

Take heart, dear Eket -- Future Magus informs us that there are as many realities as there are potentialities. Somewhere out there, there's a flourishing Guardia with King Crono and Queen Nadia at the helm, and all sorts of little ones running around the castle. Problem is, mayhem, despair and destruction make for interesting sequels. :D
Yes, take heart young one, If Lucca was spared by Dalton and continued to live in Porre-occupied Guardia, then im sure Chrono and Marle could at the very least find a way out.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:26:55 pm by art_garfunkel »

Eket

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2008, 04:26:42 pm »
Quote
I can't even enjoy the game anymore, there's nothing left of it but mayhem, despair and destruction.

I'm out of here, have a good one.

Take heart, dear Eket -- Future Magus informs us that there are as many realities as there are potentialities. Somewhere out there, there's a flourishing Guardia with King Crono and Queen Nadia at the helm, and all sorts of little ones running around the castle. Problem is, mayhem, despair and destruction make for interesting sequels. :D

To be honest it doesn't even need to be that happy. I just want them alive, i guess... We got the happy ending concerning Lavos, and Schala in Chrono Cross. And i hope for Magus' sake that he got the message that Schala is alive and well. The fall was never dealt with...

I honestly don't know why this affects me so much, but somehow it does. They are just videogame characters but somehow they mean so much to me. I just don't get it. I've finished over a 100 RPG's even ones where you control the ending you get( Evil, Good or Whatever). It's just weird...

Anyway... Sorry for my recent ramblings. Enjoy figuring all this stuff out. You obviously enjoy it.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2008, 04:36:24 pm »
''I'm not following your logic. There has to have been a point in 1000 AD where there was no forest, or else Chrono and team would never have planted the seed. If you go back in time and change something, the changes are evident only after you make the change. Just as the Chrono series explains, every time something in a timeline is changed in the past, it creates a "new dimension" proceeding from that point forward. The characters return to the new dimension where there is a forest, and the old dimension without a forest is relegated to the Darkness Beyond Time. I believe.''

There, there it is the answer. It goes like this:

1st. Time Line (Without forest):

1,000

1) Crono arrives here with the seed. No forest.
2) He travels to the year 600.

First time line from 600 onward is sent to the DBT, 2nd time line is created.

2nd Time Line (With Forest):

600

1) Crono arrives from 1,000.
2) Crono plants the seed.
3) Crono returns to 1,000.

600-1,000

1) Forest grows.

1,000

1) By TTI, Crono arrives with the seed. He sees the forest.
2) Crono decides there is no need to plant it anymore.
3) By TB, Crono disappears the moment the other one, who did travel, went to 600.
4) By TTI, the Crono who did planted the seed returns to find the forest.

There, it works that way.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:38:19 pm by Acacia Sgt »

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2008, 05:00:31 pm »
Dalton gave new technology and greed to Porre, Crono and Marle were defeated unexpectedly with Crono most likely dying, Lucca was spared because she proved herself a technological asset to Porre, Lynx stepped in and killed Dalton to get the Frozen Flame, then killed Lucca in an attempt to steal the Chrono Trigger.

If you go by RD logic, anyway.

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2008, 05:03:48 pm »
Why would he kill Dalton to get the Frozen Flame? He already had the Frozen Flame in Chronopolis, right? He just needed access.

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2008, 05:09:54 pm »
Guardia held the flame, Dalton took over with Poore and got their swag, Lynx wanted the flame and is kinda quick to kill folks.

Again, I'm going more by events in RD than CC, since I understood the plot more there...

Dark Serge

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2008, 05:29:46 pm »
Guardia held the flame? Are you sure? Because http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Frozen_Flame.html seems to say otherwise. It says Belthasar took the flame and used it for Chronopolis. If Chronopolis didn't have the Frozen Flame (it's primary power source) how would it even create Lynx in the first place?

KebreI

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2008, 05:35:42 pm »
At points like this you can't go off of RD to explain CC, sorry maggiekarp.

maggiekarp

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2008, 05:37:49 pm »
Aw, beans >8(

Chrono'99

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2008, 05:42:24 pm »
RD and CC give information that suggests Guardia might have been founded thanks to the Frozen Flame. In RD, Guardia probably kept it until the Fall of Guardia when Viper invaded the country and took it. It's more unclear in CC; it's generally assumed that Guardia lost it well before the Fall since Belthasar finds it in 2,300 A.D. in the middle of the ocean.

Xenterex

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2008, 06:57:21 pm »
Quote
the 1000AD vortex pits you against DALTON and clone Crono,

In regards to Porre overpowering Guardia and the fates of Marle and Crono afterwards,  I've always taken the approach that they were forced to flee rather than fight.  In my own delusion, I figured Dalton would've used the Crono clone left in Zeal, combined it with elemental/golem techs to create a Crono-Golem, and then used this Crono as a rally-cry for the people of Porre to march on Guardia, claiming they had rescued the true time hero, and he was on their side, and that the one attempting to rule the kingdom  (depends how long Marle's father lives I guess) is another Yakra (XIV i guess) conspiracy.  Civil turmoil breaks out, so Crono and Marle decide to simply flee as they don't have a means of resolving this conflict without killing a bunch.  (kindof like how they fled Gaurdia the first time when Crono was a running felon)

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The name "Time's Eclipse" literally means...well, I'm going back to good ol' Webster for a definition of "eclipse."

1.
a. The partial or complete obscuring, relative to a designated observer, of one celestial body by another.
b. The period of time during which such an obscuration occurs.
2. A temporary or permanent dimming or cutting off of light.
3.
a. A fall into obscurity or disuse; a decline: "A composer . . . often goes into eclipse after his death and never regains popularity" Time.
b. A disgraceful or humiliating end; a downfall: Revelations of wrongdoing helped bring about the eclipse of the governor's career.

That probably muddles things further though. I'm not really sure how to proceed on this one. 

But what say you all?
 

I figured your conclusion would've effectively said they were the same.  DBT: Darkness before Time,  TE: Time's eclipse.  An eclipse is a cutting off of light, or darkness, or even an end of something.  The DBT is the end point of discarded timelines, and its a darkness, so I'd say that 'eclipse' simply serves to shorten the name of the DBT.
TE=DBT,  plus Schala is there, and I don't think she'd magically be ported between two different time voids.

Regardless, I don't think that something can actually reside there.  I've thought that dbt, or at least the role I think it fits, acts similar to Dominic Deegan's 'elemecca'  in that it breaks down whatever enters into it.  A 'wastebasket'  has to empty is contents, or dispose of them somehow; even information takes up space.  I could agree with maybe visiting such a place in between recycling sessions, (if you want to refer to it as such >.>)   but to actually maintain a presence there for any extended length of time either would destroy oneself, or if you can somehow overcome its disposal methods, then you'd create further problems internally.  Maybe that was the real threat of the 'Time devourer' then, it created a time disposal clog, forcing the powers that be to bunch up and eventually explode, or whatever.  If disposal doesn't occur, then I guess anyone can just reach in and grab whatever time residue garbage they want like dragons or technology or whatever, so long as they can sort out the information.

Agent 12

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2008, 10:43:15 pm »
Sorry I was out for a day so these quotes are from awhile ago.

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jsondag2: And you don't think Lavos would've killed Magus if he remained there alone? How would he have escaped?

The same way Crono and company escaped....schala teleports him out to the last village.

Quote
So Magus in his full cloak automatically equals the prophet?

That's about as supportable as Magus = Guile. Which is to say, requires a ridiculous amount of jumping through logic hoops.

I dont understand what kind of logic holes were jumping through? I think that any other magus requires quite a bit more "jumping through logic holes".  It's silly to simply ignore the prophet guise...It's really the only thing we have to go off of when deciding which magus it is.  Kato went out of his way to choose to display magus in this manner if for no other reason than the programming difficulty.  I'm 90% sure that the prophet isn't in Magus sprite sheet he's a completely seperate sprite.  He has shown through schala that they are willing to add new sprites but he didn't.  Instead he picked the incredibly recognizable sprite of the prophet.  He explicity didn't say which magus this is but he has left a huge hint by choosing to portray him as the prophet.

--JP

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2008, 12:02:35 am »
Huh... Interesting. I was always intrigued by the plot holes CT, RD, and CC left behind.

art_garfunkel

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2008, 02:28:16 am »
Sorry I was out for a day so these quotes are from awhile ago.

Quote
jsondag2: And you don't think Lavos would've killed Magus if he remained there alone? How would he have escaped?

The same way Crono and company escaped....schala teleports him out to the last village.

Quote
So Magus in his full cloak automatically equals the prophet?

That's about as supportable as Magus = Guile. Which is to say, requires a ridiculous amount of jumping through logic hoops.

I dont understand what kind of logic holes were jumping through? I think that any other magus requires quite a bit more "jumping through logic holes".  It's silly to simply ignore the prophet guise...It's really the only thing we have to go off of when deciding which magus it is.  Kato went out of his way to choose to display magus in this manner if for no other reason than the programming difficulty.  I'm 90% sure that the prophet isn't in Magus sprite sheet he's a completely seperate sprite.  He has shown through schala that they are willing to add new sprites but he didn't.  Instead he picked the incredibly recognizable sprite of the prophet.  He explicity didn't say which magus this is but he has left a huge hint by choosing to portray him as the prophet.

--JP
Completely separate sheet or not, its still easier to use an existing sprite than to make a new design AND a new sprite. Not even all those Schala sprites are new.

I don't see why Prophet Magus would go to the Devourer fight, get his memory messed with, and then go back to 12000 BC and continue on like nothing happened. That makes no sense.

Agent 12

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS New Ending Analysis (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2008, 02:45:57 am »
It is easier than making a new sprites but it's NOT easier than simply using the magus sprites.


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I don't see why Prophet Magus would go to the Devourer fight, get his memory messed with, and then go back to 12000 BC and continue on like nothing happened. That makes no sense.

Not sure what you mean by this why does he go back to 12,000?

Magus comes back becomes prophet ==> Magus boots out Crono and company ==> (crono and company dont come back in this timeline) ==> Fights lavos. Everyone loses schala saves the prophet just like she saved crono and co. ==> Over time magus builds a group of people to challenge lavos ==> Defeats lavos ...Dream Devour appears ==> goes to portal ==> New DS ending

--JP