Author Topic: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)  (Read 140227 times)

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #105 on: November 25, 2008, 10:37:53 am »
Right, something that making Guile older can't solve.

Hey, they might port CC and in that it might make him maybe about 15 to 25 years older. It's all up to Square, really.

That makes me think. Maybe we're looking at it wrong. Has SE said anything concerning the amnesiac Magus yet?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #106 on: November 25, 2008, 10:48:50 am »
Right, something that making Guile older can't solve.

Hey, they might port CC and in that it might make him maybe about 15 to 25 years older. It's all up to Square, really.

That makes me think. Maybe we're looking at it wrong. Has SE said anything concerning the amnesiac Magus yet?

As far as I know, not yet. Also, if they do port CC, they can still pull something different, like, having amnesiac Magus as a separate character other than Guile.

Personally, I would like it better that way.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:55:08 am by Acacia Sgt »

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #107 on: November 25, 2008, 01:15:56 pm »
Right, something that making Guile older can't solve.

Hey, they might port CC and in that it might make him maybe about 15 to 25 years older. It's all up to Square, really.

That makes me think. Maybe we're looking at it wrong. Has SE said anything concerning the amnesiac Magus yet?

As far as I know, not yet. Also, if they do port CC, they can still pull something different, like, having amnesiac Magus as a separate character other than Guile.

Personally, I would like it better that way.

Not me, really. Not after all that's happened.

Dream Devourer

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #108 on: November 25, 2008, 01:27:52 pm »
It isn't really clear what happens to everyone after the fight with the Dream Devourer, do they all get sent back to their own timelines/dimensions? If so, Cross probably takes place in the What the prophet seeks timeline...allowing the player to decide on their own what canonically happened during the normal Trigger new game (most importantly Magus dying or not) without really affecting what happens in Cross, as Eclipse Magus is probably needed to become Guile in the "Prophet timeline".

Also, it's interesting to note how in TE Schala sends the party away like she originally did during the Ocean Palace incident, while she sends Magus away through a portal, like young Janus and the guru's not much later after the party during said incident by Lavos' presence (in the normal timeline anyway).

The portal might be there because Kato wants to explain this Magus will not return to the same time/timeline as the rest does.

Dalton's victory over Guardia is also indeed easily explained this way: if Dalton, who may be from either or both timelines, goes to the Prophet timeline where none of the heroes are aware of his plan...hell, they might even be dead already.

The way Schala talks to her little brother in this ending might be because she knows him better than he does: she probably knows what the result of that conversation will be, which, thinking like an older sibling, would indeed be the right thing to do...allowing him to have peace of mind instead of infinite regret over something he cannot change. She obviously still thinks of him as little Janus, not the battle hardened warrior he is now.

Also, there still is no way two Magusses are able to appear in the same place, because like Zeality said, no one in the party is able to encounter an older him/herself... but an alternate one is quite possible.

* If Future Magus really were from an alternate dimension, why would he be searching for THIS dimension's Schala? And this would also mean that the Darkness Beyond Time is connected to infinite dimensions (one DBT per infinity), which creates all sorts of probabilistic issues with the creation of a Time Devourer, which is capable of destroying the universe. Basically, as long as the probability of a Time Devourer forming is greater than 0 (and it is, apparently), then all existence would have been destroyed by now.

He probably doesn't know it's an alternate dimension...but that matters not, what matters is that the Dream Devourer is made up from the Lavos' and Schala's from at least two of those infinite dimensions. Also, apparently any creature in this dimension is incapable of affecting anyone or from before it's creation, so Lavos from 1999 can't just return to an earlier point in time.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 01:30:57 pm by Dream Devourer »

Agent 12

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #109 on: November 25, 2008, 02:27:47 pm »
Agreed with Dream Devourer...I'm not sure why people are so anti him being the prophet.  I haven't seen any proof against this that isn't easily explained (see a few pages back).   I'll summarize the points i guess

a) They went out of their way to put him in the prophet guise
b) the word "we" can be used in a context that doesn't mean the party
c) There's an alternate dimension (the one after crono gets booted out of zeal but before he gets the epoch) where this fits
d) (just made by dream devourer) works whether or not you decide to kill magus or not (since this magus is before that decision)


---JP

ZealKnight

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #110 on: November 25, 2008, 05:29:16 pm »
Maybe(this may have already been stated) he is the Magus from the Serge timeline, or more likely another timeline where Lavos won and maybe he escaped, probably not that either? Another dimension is my guess.

FaustWolf

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #111 on: November 25, 2008, 05:43:31 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
12. Can we assume that Magus's wake-up to Schala is the moment Belthasar took advantage of when planning for Schala to be awake long enough to create Kid? (This means Crono's presence pre-Lavos is non-canonical)

Can anyone elaborate on what's in the parentheses here? In any case, it seems that Eclipse Magus may very well be an integral part of Project Kid -- I can easily imagine Schala creating Kid in the moments after she sends Eclipse Magus on his way, and maybe Belthasar realized that Janus was the only one who could possibly get through to her while she's connected to Lavos. There can be no Project Kid without Kid, so it makes sense. The only thing I'm not sure about is how Belthasar would have known that Schala would respond in this way during her brief moment of clarity, but then again he's an omniscient dude.

Given that Eclipse Magus knows a lot about the Dream Devourer's nature and about alternate dimensions in general, it seems he might be working directly with Belthasar. This is very, very cool. As for why Belthasar chose this Magus and not "the Magus we know" for the job, maybe it's because Eclipse Magus has adopted a more noble nature by virtue of whatever he experienced in the alternate dimension.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to emphasize that the Dream Devourer is described as having the ability to devour not only dreams, but memories. A slight hint that Crono & co. maybe had their memories wiped, and it at least allows for the possibility that Schala and not Eclipse Magus wiped his memories out.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 05:47:37 pm by FaustWolf »

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #112 on: November 25, 2008, 07:38:42 pm »
In some ways memories are dreams.

IDK where it came from, but it seemed appropriate.

Eske

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #113 on: November 25, 2008, 09:30:22 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
12. Can we assume that Magus's wake-up to Schala is the moment Belthasar took advantage of when planning for Schala to be awake long enough to create Kid? (This means Crono's presence pre-Lavos is non-canonical)

Can anyone elaborate on what's in the parentheses here? In any case, it seems that Eclipse Magus may very well be an integral part of Project Kid -- I can easily imagine Schala creating Kid in the moments after she sends Eclipse Magus on his way, and maybe Belthasar realized that Janus was the only one who could possibly get through to her while she's connected to Lavos. There can be no Project Kid without Kid, so it makes sense. The only thing I'm not sure about is how Belthasar would have known that Schala would respond in this way during her brief moment of clarity, but then again he's an omniscient dude.

Given that Eclipse Magus knows a lot about the Dream Devourer's nature and about alternate dimensions in general, it seems he might be working directly with Belthasar. This is very, very cool. As for why Belthasar chose this Magus and not "the Magus we know" for the job, maybe it's because Eclipse Magus has adopted a more noble nature by virtue of whatever he experienced in the alternate dimension.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to emphasize that the Dream Devourer is described as having the ability to devour not only dreams, but memories. A slight hint that Crono & co. maybe had their memories wiped, and it at least allows for the possibility that Schala and not Eclipse Magus wiped his memories out.

Zeality means that Crono and Co. weren't really there to witness the event, its just a device Kato used to have us see it.  Canonically, Crono and Co. go on to defeat Lavos like they did in the original release.

FaustWolf

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #114 on: November 25, 2008, 09:34:16 pm »
Gotcha Eske, that makes the most sense. I wasn't quite sure what Z meant.

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #115 on: November 25, 2008, 09:44:24 pm »
Plot devices ruin all the fun. ROFL JK :lol:

Eske

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #116 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:07 pm »
Okay, so wait, when the party takes the bucket to Time's Eclipse, do they actually end up at 1999 post Lavos defeat and then follow Magus II into a gate which then takes them to TE?   Or is it TE right from the start?  I don't have the game so I can't check that mini map.

Also looking at the YouTube videos with Dalton, it seems like he was aware of the party's presence and just cuts them off suddenly.  Then after the fight, he announces his plans for Porre and Guardia and then disappears at will.  Hmm.  It feels like he knows too much (concerning Guardia/Porre).  I wonder if he has found some vantage point (at least for 1000AD), much like the one Gaspar and Spekkio have at the EoT.  Who knows where he ended up after being pulled into the golem portal.

And back to Magus II: He says "we've defeated..." in the english version but does he say that in the japanese version or something more like "he was defeated...".    May not seem like much of a difference but if its the second option than he may not have been involved with the original Lavos fight, supporting the "he is the Prophet" idea. 

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #117 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:10 pm »
Okay, so wait, when the party takes the bucket to Time's Eclipse, do they actually end up at 1999 post Lavos defeat and then follow Magus II into a gate which then takes them to TE?   Or is it TE right from the start?

Doesn't matter. Crono's presence there, and, sadly, the Dream Devourer battle, are non-canon.

EDIT: For what it's worth, though, it's TE right off the bat, and then they go to where the Dream Devourer is.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:13:50 pm by Shadow D. Darkman »

Eske

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #118 on: November 25, 2008, 10:32:53 pm »
Ah, well I wasn't focused so much on the party as I was on Magus.  I can't believe some version of him found a way
to enter TE directly which I'm assuming is the DBT.  Finding his way to the Day of Lavos (post battle) and finding an entryway to TE from there made more sense to me.  oh well  =(   

Shadow D. Darkman

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Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« Reply #119 on: November 25, 2008, 10:35:38 pm »
Ah, well I wasn't focused so much on the party as I was on Magus.  I can't believe some version of him found a way
to enter TE directly which I'm assuming is the DBT.  Finding his way to the Day of Lavos (post battle) and finding an entryway to TE from there made more sense to me.  oh well  =(   

Ehh... Who knows? We should ask SE.