Author Topic: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?  (Read 3472 times)

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 11:15:52 am »
The accents were dumb.  And entirely chauvanistic...  or.. like, America Centered.

Imagine if you actually were Australian and you played this game.  Everything you read would be in an Australian accent in your head.  Then when Kid comes along, you'd be all.. What's this?  Or.. "Wot's iss?"  HAAHA j/k

But seriously.. by putting all those accents in there, it is saying that American English is standard, and all else is not.

Dark Serge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 02:15:57 pm »
I think the accents gave more depth to the characters... Imagine Fargo not talking like a pirate but like a perfect english gentlemen like everyone else... Same goes for Zappa, and so many other characters with nice accents

mav

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 02:56:45 pm »
I agree, some of the characters were highlighted well by their accents, but others just seemed too stereotypical. But as far as Kidd's accent goes, I'd assume that most Australians would look at her accent and easily recognize that it's supposed to a less classy-sounding Australian accent--it's got that Steve Irwin, adventure-seeking, boisterous voice. I mean, you can still picture some of the other characters with whatever accent you want, but the one's with stereotypical ones were done pretty purposefully.

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 03:19:48 pm »
I'd assume that most Australians would look at her accent and easily recognize that it's supposed to a less classy-sounding Australian accent--it's got that Steve Irwin, adventure-seeking, boisterous voice.


People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).

I speak American English, and since that is standard to me, if I wanted to spell things differently to indicate that one of my characters is speaking American English, I wouldn't know how, because when I read things written properly, in my head they sound like American English.

Oi kud vary issaly troi ta toipe bri'ish occent thay... (I could very easily try to type a british accent though)  by simply highlighting what I personally percieve the differences are between my spoken language (American Standard English) and a british accent.

British people on the other hand would rightfully be angry that that silly spelling I put in there is supposed to represent them, yet the language that they all know (normally spelled english) represents Americans.

I can't imagine that Aussies were pleased with Kid's "accent"

If they had done it with voice actors that'd be one thing, but they change spelling to achieve it, which basically says one type of english is standard. and all others are dialects.

 

Dark Serge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 04:47:59 pm »
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2008, 05:48:32 pm »
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.

An Aussie would read what you just wrote and it would have an Aussie accent!  Don't you see what I am getting at?

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.

mav

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 06:01:59 pm »
People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).
I never said they spell anything differently, but I do feel that the accent system in Chrono Cross was designed highlighted some of the stereotypical phonemes of certain accents. We can safely assume that all the accents were generated to sound different than whatever accent you use, even if they're from the same country. So an Australian can perceive all speech with an Australian accent and simply read Kidd's as from a different class or region.
Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.
Well, let's make this clear, with all accents (even American accents), there are different regional dialects. There are different regional dialects for British accents as well, you have Scouse accents, Cockney accents (like the the one you tried to type), the Standard English accent, and many others. There isn't really too much different between the "American" accent and what the Standard English accent; you can't type out the differences because they're highlighted with pitch changes and slight phonetic tweaks.

Dark Serge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 06:04:58 pm »
How else would they give Kid an australian accent? Since there's no voice acting, it would be impossible without changing the dialogue. I see it sometimes in books as well. I really can't understand how this would bother anyone. It's not like she talks entirely australian. She just has a slight australian accent with some words replaced.

An Aussie would read what you just wrote and it would have an Aussie accent!  Don't you see what I am getting at?

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.

So you're saying Kid and Zappa's accents and all the others you read like american accents? O...k... I don't have that problem.

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 06:16:57 pm »


So you're saying Kid and Zappa's accents and all the others you read like american accents? O...k... I don't have that problem.

No, that's not what I am saying at all.  I'm saying that anything spelled correctly in English thas an american accent to me because I speak American English.  The same text, to someone who speaks British English, would have a British accent.

All this accent highlighting in Chrono Cross was done by changing spelling. 

It is impossible to write an American accent (for me) because standard English spelling (to me) indicates an American accent.

Australians who read things would read them how they say them.  Kid's Australian accent then is only Australian when read by non-Australians.   

Dark Serge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2008, 06:20:46 pm »
Well, wasn't that the whole point? It's the same as saying "If that guy talks to me in american english I'll recognize it but if he talks to me in australian I don't know what he's talking about." Obviously australians will recognize the accent, but all the others won't.

Oh well this discussion is pointless and uninteresting anyways

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2008, 06:34:05 pm »
People who actually speak with that accent don't spell differently  (except for the common USA GB differences like armour and armor etc).
I never said they spell anything differently, but I do feel that the accent system in Chrono Cross was designed highlighted some of the stereotypical phonemes of certain accents. We can safely assume that all the accents were generated to sound different than whatever accent you use, even if they're from the same country. So an Australian can perceive all speech with an Australian accent and simply read Kidd's as from a different class or region.

Please, type an American accent for me.  Everything I read with correct spelling is in American accent.  I'm interested to see how one would indicate American accent by changing of spelling.
Well, let's make this clear, with all accents (even American accents), there are different regional dialects. There are different regional dialects for British accents as well, you have Scouse accents, Cockney accents (like the the one you tried to type), the Standard English accent, and many others. There isn't really too much different between the "American" accent and what the Standard English accent; you can't type out the differences because they're highlighted with pitch changes and slight phonetic tweaks.


I don't know what it is, but you guys are totally missing the point.

OF Course there are different accents within the same country.  I could write something like "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth! Ah cum frum Takesus!" (Hi Ma'am, I'm from the South I come from Texas.)  Sure sure.

I'm sure Texans, Brits, and Aussies could easly write something for what I sound like to them.

The point is, you need to have a point of reference for what is standard... (to me, that's the dialect of English which I grew up speaking, which is similar to the dialect used in news broadcasts on American TV).  Only then will the changes in spelling that I did to denote a seperate accent (similar to how it was done in CC) make sense.


Try to type something in what you think of as your own accent.  You can't.

You don't even think you have an accent.  Because that's how you talk.

Where is CC is the representation of an American accent?  Nowhere!  Why?  Because the ones who localized it were Americans!

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2008, 06:40:03 pm »
Well, wasn't that the whole point? It's the same as saying "If that guy talks to me in american english I'll recognize it but if he talks to me in australian I don't know what he's talking about." Obviously australians will recognize the accent, but all the others won't.

Oh well this discussion is pointless and uninteresting anyways

Talking is different from writing!  I'll clearly recognize those who speak to me the way I speak to them, and I'll also clearly recognize those who speak to me differently than I speak to them.  I'll still know what they are talking about. Regardless of how we say things, when we write, it will be exactly the same!

CC's localization is Americacentric which is all I was trying to say.


mav

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2008, 07:19:46 pm »
OF Course there are different accents within the same country.  I could write something like "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth! Ah cum frum Takesus!" (Hi Ma'am, I'm from the South I come from Texas.)  Sure sure.

I'm sure Texans, Brits, and Aussies could easly write something for what I sound like to them.

The point is, you need to have a point of reference for what is standard... (to me, that's the dialect of English which I grew up speaking, which is similar to the dialect used in news broadcasts on American TV).  Only then will the changes in spelling that I did to denote a seperate accent (similar to how it was done in CC) make sense.
Alright, here's what I'm saying: the point is that we all perceive what we read in the standard accent of the country, we make the phonetic changes in our mind. An Australian reading Kidd's dialog will be able to tell that it's not the same exact accent that they're using. Just like an American could tell that your "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth!" is an attempt at a Texan or Southern Accent. In fact, I live in Texas and I can tell that that is supposed to sound like a stereotypical Texan accent. Now, whether I, as a Texan, think that the "Sawth" quote was accurate is another story. And there isn't a representation of an American accent because you can't highlight the phonemes of an American accent the way you can with regional dialects.

The point of reference is in our heads, the British don't hear American voices when they read the dialog. And the only reason we think it's America-centric is cause we're American (I can't speak for any British people who've played CC, but I doubt it'd sound too farfetched to 'em). The game is Western-centric, to some extent; I don't think I heard them try to implement a British accent on anyone. That's cause they couldn't.

yujinishuge

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2008, 07:37:55 pm »
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An Australian reading Kidd's dialog will be able to tell that it's not the same exact accent that they're using.

Anyone who reads it will think it's not the same accent they're using, because they would hopefully have learned by reading normal English.

 
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Just like an American could tell that your "Ha Ma'am Ahm frum the Sawth!" is an attempt at a Texan or Southern Accent. In fact, I live in Texas and I can tell that that is supposed to sound like a stereotypical Texan accent. Now, whether I, as a Texan, think that the "Sawth" quote was accurate is another story.
Yes, exactly.  Now If the story or game I wrote had a guy who was supposed to be from Texas as the only one who's dialogue is represented that way, and meanwhile everyone else talks normally, you're going to think that me, the ignorant ass who wrote that, thinks that all Texans must speak like that.  (I've actually been to Texas and found that practically nobody spoke in that manner, Alabama on the other hand... yowza..)

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And there isn't a representation of an American accent because you can't highlight the phonemes of an American accent the way you can with regional dialects.

Sure you can, provided that your spoken English isn't at all the Standard American (or close to it.)  Here, I'll try it, but it's increasingly hard cuz that's how i speak.

"I wiz wawkin' to da store tiday an I sawuh byootiful car.  I bedid cawsda milyun dalers."

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The point of reference is in our heads, the British don't hear American voices when they read the dialog. And the only reason we think it's America-centric is cause we're American (I can't speak for any British people who've played CC, but I doubt it'd sound too farfetched to 'em). The game is Western-centric, to some extent; I don't think I heard them try to implement a British accent on anyone. That's cause they couldn't.

No SHIT!  The british would hear their own spoken language when they read the text!  That's what I have been saying all along!  So would the Aussies and so would anyone else.  Do Aussies hear themselves when they read Kid?  NO, they read what Americans think they sound like when regular spelling is standard American English.

mav

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Re: Zeal is based off of Austrailia?
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2008, 07:57:31 pm »
Now If the story or game I wrote had a guy who was supposed to be from Texas as the only one who's dialogue is represented that way, and meanwhile everyone else talks normally, you're going to think that me, the ignorant ass who wrote that, thinks that all Texans must speak like that. 
I'd just see the character who speaks with that accent as having a much thicker Texan (well, Southern) accent, provided you are able to write the accent in with the proper phonetics.
No SHIT!  The british would hear their own spoken language when they read the text!  That's what I have been saying all along!  So would the Aussies and so would anyone else.  Do Aussies hear themselves when they read Kid?  NO, they read what Americans think they sound like when regular spelling is standard American English.
Alright, look, we already agree that we hear our native accents in all the characters.  You're assuming that just cause this one character has a highlighted Australian accent, that all Australian characters would sound that way. We don't even have proof that there are no other characters speaking with an Australian accent. Kidd's accent is supposed to sound stereotypical, but if I were an Australian and I felt that it was done poorly, then yes, I agree that it'd be an ignorant depiction of the accent, but I wouldn't assume that they think all Australians sound that way--just Kidd.
"I wiz wawkin' to da store tiday an I sawuh byootiful car.  I bedid cawsda milyun dalers."
The accent you provided for yourself isn't the Standard American accent, so how is that a representation of an American accent? It's a representation of your accent. Both the Standard American accent and the Standard English accent can pronounce the phonemes properly, it's the rise and change in pitch or tone that differentiates them...regional dialects, like the "Texan" accent we've used remove certain vowels and sounds in certain words, writing it out is just a chore.


Anyhow, I get what you're saying, if I were to read an accent that was done poorly (like Luccia's), then I'd see it as an ignorant depiction of that accent, especially if that was my accent. Kidd's wasn't too terrible though, I suppose that's where the fallout of this discussion came from.